Demographics

**Fumblitis** · 05-22-2015, 11:58 PM

So...SOB's of the CFL, help me out here. You guys and girls attend Argo games faithfully. What is the demographic...is it over 40 like is suggested on talk shows like PTS? Or are there 20 something's at the games? That's what stood out at me listening to Bobcat tonight.

**Tau Ceti** · 05-23-2015, 12:52 AM

I'm a new fan in my thirties and have given some thought to this. You listen to McCown and you get the impression that Argo fans are let out of geriatric homes to dodder off to the Dome for an afternoon. I attended my first game two years ago and have been to about eight or ten altogether. The crowds are somewhat older than the average sports or concert event and there's clearly a baby boom bulge to the fanbase. But by no means are 20- and 30-somethings absent. There are couples, parents with kids, young guys with beer just as you'd expect. I think the demographic doom scenario is overstated with the Argos.

The problem, I think, is what advertisers call conversion rate. Of the youngish people that do come to a game for the first time how many come back? Clearly not enough. In the games I've attended I've brought about six first timers and the response has been totally uniform: "this is a lot of fun but holy sh*t it's empty in here." I listened to the same radio spot and, leaving aside Bob, I thought the others made the right point about BMO: the conversion rate should rise. More casual fans should buy tickets a second time after attending an outdoor game in the summer. (The hardcore fans will have to fill the place in November.)

This also applies intergenerationally. If all of the creaky baby boomers can stave off death for a few more years and buy seasons tickets again because of the BMO move they'll be taking kids and grandkids to outdoor gridiron games for the first time. That's the hope, anyhow.

**Rich** · 05-23-2015, 02:01 AM

Originally Posted by Tau Ceti

I'm a new fan in my thirties and have given some thought to this. You listen to McCown and you get the impression that Argo fans are let out of geriatric homes to dodder off to the Dome for an afternoon. I attended my first game two years ago and have been to about eight or ten altogether. The crowds are somewhat older than the average sports or concert event and there's clearly a baby boom bulge to the fanbase. But by no means are 20- and 30-somethings absent. There are couples, parents with kids, young guys with beer just as you'd expect. I think the demographic doom scenario is overstated with the Argos.

The problem, I think, is what advertisers call conversion rate. Of the youngish people that do come to a game for the first time how many come back? Clearly not enough. In the games I've attended I've brought about six first timers and the response has been totally uniform: "this is a lot of fun but holy sh*t it's empty in here." I listened to the same radio spot and, leaving aside Bob, I thought the others made the right point about BMO: the conversion rate should rise. More casual fans should buy tickets a second time after attending an outdoor game in the summer. (The hardcore fans will have to fill the place in November.)

I agree with all of this. From where I sit in section 113, the vast majority of seasons ticket holders are older farts. But the vast majority of newbies or single-gamers I see are people in their 20s and 30s, usually in groups of more than two, men and women out for a night of fun.

You are right, TC: Do they come back? The empty seats are a downer for sure. Nobody wants to be the only people at a party. But it sure doesn't help when McClown and Rogers poison people's minds with falsehoods like that. It makes it even harder for the team to overcome the negative perceptions.

The good news is that negative perceptions of the Argos have hit rock bottom and can only get better from here on in. McClown knows this -- that's why he's turning up the heat on the rhetoric. But he's going to lose that battle. The simple fact of Bell and Tanenbaum stepping up, pokes holes in McClown's theory that the Argonauts were worthless, and it gives the team an instant credibility boost among young and old.

Selling out BMO on a regular basis (it shouldn't be difficult) will greatly change perceptions, it will make Argo games look like a popular party to be at, and it will destroy McClown's notion that nobody cares about the Argos.

On top of all that, when the city starts seeing Argos advertising to match all that great TFC advertising, the Argos will gain a sheen of professionalism that they've never had before. McClown will have to find another whipping boy.

**Fumblitis** · 05-23-2015, 02:13 AM

Originally Posted by Rich

I agree with all of this. From where I sit in section 113, the vast majority of seasons ticket holders are older farts. But the vast majority of newbies or single-gamers I see are people in their 20s and 30s, usually in groups of more than two, men and women out for a night of fun.

You are right, TC: Do they come back? The empty seats are a downer for sure. Nobody wants to be the only people at a party. But it sure doesn't help when McClown and Rogers poison people's minds with falsehoods like that. It makes it even harder for the team to overcome the negative perceptions.

The good news is that negative perceptions of the Argos have hit rock bottom and can only get better from here on in. McClown knows this -- that's why he's turning up the heat on the rhetoric. But he's going to lose that battle. The simple fact of Bell and Tanenbaum stepping up, pokes holes in McClown's theory that the Argonauts were worthless, and it gives the team an instant credibility boost among young and old.

Selling out BMO on a regular basis (it shouldn't be difficult) will greatly change perceptions, it will make Argo games look like a popular party to be at, and it will destroy McClown's notion that nobody cares about the Argos.

On top of all that, when the city starts seeing Argos advertising to match all that great TFC advertising, the Argos will gain a sheen of professionalism that they've never had before. McClown will have to find another whipping boy.

I suppose that's why Bobcat gets paid half a mill per year: to belittle anything Bell.

Originally Posted by Tau Ceti

I'm a new fan in my thirties and have given some thought to this. You listen to McCown and you get the impression that Argo fans are let out of geriatric homes to dodder off to the Dome for an afternoon. I attended my first game two years ago and have been to about eight or ten altogether. The crowds are somewhat older than the average sports or concert event and there's clearly a baby boom bulge to the fanbase. But by no means are 20- and 30-somethings absent. There are couples, parents with kids, young guys with beer just as you'd expect. I think the demographic doom scenario is overstated with the Argos.

The problem, I think, is what advertisers call conversion rate. Of the youngish people that do come to a game for the first time how many come back? Clearly not enough. In the games I've attended I've brought about six first timers and the response has been totally uniform: "this is a lot of fun but holy sh*t it's empty in here." I listened to the same radio spot and, leaving aside Bob, I thought the others made the right point about BMO: the conversion rate should rise. More casual fans should buy tickets a second time after attending an outdoor game in the summer. (The hardcore fans will have to fill the place in November.)

This also applies intergenerationally. If all of the creaky baby boomers can stave off death for a few more years and buy seasons tickets again because of the BMO move they'll be taking kids and grandkids to outdoor gridiron games for the first time. That's the hope, anyhow.

Thanks Tau Ceti. Do you think BMO being close to Liberty Village is why you might have a higher conversion rate?

**Neely2005** · 05-23-2015, 07:01 AM

I'm in my late 30's. I usually go to games with my wife and/or with my kids or brother all of who are younger than me. I see lots of families and kids at Argonauts games. If I had to guess I'd say that when you factor in the young and the old the average age is probably in the late 30's.

**Brian45** · 05-23-2015, 07:27 AM

I am 32 and have been an Argos fan my whole life. Only problem is that there are probably on 2-3 others who like them the same amount I do and are close in age. I've had seasons in the past and got a couple buddies to buy with me but the Dome just kills it. However, the day I posted to sale and move to BMO on my facebook my friends were all instantly interested in seasons with me or at least hitting a game or two. These are the NFL first type guys - fantasy football, pools etc. So they do like the Argos (havve gone to games and Grey Cups with me) but the Dome has given them a minor league perception that they know doesn't exisit in other CFL markets. So I could end up going into 2016 with season with easily 5-10 additional seats. I suspect this will happen to many other hardcore fans that will have casuals now become much more interested. Oh ya, and they ALL want to tailgate so let's hope Police can be fair and let the "coffee cups" go and let people have some fun as long as a mess isn't left behind in the CNE/ON Place lots. The kicker is that if you get the late 20's/30's crowd back they aare the ones (like me) with young kids that will now grow up only knowing the great BMO experience and want to go with their friends etc. Rant over!

**AngeloV** · 05-23-2015, 08:48 AM

From my views, it is pretty even split in the stadium. The thing is that most of the die hards are the older generation, while most of the younger fans in the stadium are more casual fans. I've always said in the past that you need to get more casual fans out to have a good time, and they will keep coming back.

**LLB997** · 05-23-2015, 09:00 AM

All I will add to this is... Summer is approaching, rock your Argos swag... shirts, jerseys, hats as much as u can. wear them proudly and make a statement.
cheers

**Will** · 05-23-2015, 09:24 AM

Tau Ceti pretty well summarized the situation perfectly.

Personally, it was difficult finding other CFL fans when I was younger. I had 2-3 friends over to watch the 1996 and 1997 Grey Cup games but would only classify them as casual fans at the time. There was a slight uptick in interest amongst my peers in the first years of the C+S regime in or around the 04 GC. By now, based on my Facebook friends (after taking away my CFL friends), I'd say there are only 1-2 people who are interested in the CFL and the Argos both of whom are season ticket holders.

**AngeloV** · 05-23-2015, 11:31 AM

Originally Posted by LLB997

All I will add to this is... Summer is approaching, rock your Argos swag... shirts, jerseys, hats as much as u can. wear them proudly and make a statement.
cheers

I usually do.

**Neely2005** · 05-23-2015, 11:51 AM

Originally Posted by AngeloV

From my views, it is pretty even split in the stadium. The thing is that most of the die hards are the older generation, while most of the younger fans in the stadium are more casual fans. I've always said in the past that you need to get more casual fans out to have a good time, and they will keep coming back.

I've brought a lot of people to their first Argonauts game (at Rogers Centre) and every single one has said that they want to come back and that it's a lot more fun than a Blue Jays game. A couple have even commented that even the music is better.

**1argoholic** · 05-23-2015, 12:09 PM

I was away living on Vancouver Island from Oct 02 until moving back to Ontario in Aug 13. I've seen a huge change in that time. Back when I had seasons for twenty straight years the crowds were pretty conservative. We Argoholics were seemingly the few who dressed like crazy football fans. That has changed in a huge way. Most of the fans seem in their twenties or early thirties to me and wear facepaint, crazy outfits, drums etc. I'm pushing a young 53. haha. I only wear my coveralls at Grey Cup or playoffs now. I see many folks with kids dressed in wee Argo t's or jersey's. I hope that every age of Argo fan will support the team at BMO instead of watching games on their couches.

**argotom** · 05-23-2015, 12:13 PM

Over my years as a season ticket holder there is no doubt the crowd is much younger overall, with families and kids all over the place.

**Neely2005** · 05-23-2015, 12:16 PM

Can the Mods please merge this Poll with This Thread:

http://www.argofans.com/showthread.p...9-Demographics

**Fumblitis** · 05-23-2015, 12:24 PM

So by reading most of the posts here it's seems fair to say that the Rogers clown act on PTS is blowing this whole "All the Argo fans are in the retirement homes." is blown way out of proportion.

**Tau Ceti** · 05-23-2015, 12:31 PM

Originally Posted by Fumblitis

Thanks Tau Ceti. Do you think BMO being close to Liberty Village is why you might have a higher conversion rate?

The neighbourhood is nice but I think the single biggest positive driver to bringing people back will be having matches 80% - 100% full rather than half that at Rogers Centre. It totally changes the perception of the event for first timers.

**Neely2005** · 05-23-2015, 12:34 PM

Originally Posted by Fumblitis

So by reading most of the posts here it's seems fair to say that the Rogers clown act on PTS is blowing this whole "All the Argo fans are in the retirement homes." is blown way out of proportion.

Well in all fairness if what McCowan said about the Argonauts fanbase was true (which I don't think it is) I doubt those older people would be posting on a Message Board, or Twitter or Facebook...

**ArgoRavi** · 05-23-2015, 01:17 PM

Originally Posted by Fumblitis

So by reading most of the posts here it's seems fair to say that the Rogers clown act on PTS is blowing this whole "All the Argo fans are in the retirement homes." is blown way out of proportion.

On another site, regarding this same topic, a poster asked whether McCown even knows anyone under 40.