1995 Balimore Stallions

[argonaut11xx]

Today on TSN radio with Dave Naylor it was suggested that the 1995 Baltimore Stallions were the best team ever, in CFL history??!!!???

http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/b...726-story.html

I think the argument is fair, but my vote would be the 1997 Argonauts. (the 1995 stallions(all american) not far behind)

[AngeloV]

As painful as it is to say this, I have to go with the'81 Eskimos.

[OV Argo]

The Stallions were a very good CFL team (led by an all-time winning CFL HC in the Don) and went to 2 straight GCs - winning just one ; but sorry - they ain`t even close to an all-time great CFL team IMO; that would be more like the Esks during that Dynasty (early part), the 68-69 Ottawa Rough Riders (who won back to back GCs and were led by an all-time great CFL QB), the steel curtain D Ticats teams of the late 50s and into the 60s, or the Flutie led Argos of 96 & 97 (who would have crushed the Stallions IMO).

If you picked the TEN greatest CFL GC winning teams, the Stallions should not be on that list IMO - they had a mediocre to sub-par CFL calibre receiving corps, and Tracy Ham was a vet good running QB, but hardly close to a top 10 all-time CFL QB talent that other top GC teams would feature. They won the one GC with big plays on special teams and a tough D, but the game was played in a wind tunnel lousy conditions; they lost in their other GC appearence to a pretty decent but hardly great BC team.

Not at all surprised that a dofus like Naylor would think this ( or was it someone else who opined that on the show with himÉ) - regardless - how does this clueless clown get to comment on Canadian football when clearly he knows nothing about the game - about the worst CFL `reporter i can think of = ÉÉÉ

[argonaut11xx]

The 1995 Stallions sent 14 players to the NFL the next season, and many others had all-star CFL careers.

[argolio]

Propping up Champion A as being definitively better than Champion B is so subjective and generally unprovable, even more so with teams from different eras. Take a team like the '84 Bombers. They had ten CFL all-stars (four more than any other team) and playoff winning margins of 35, 17, and 30 points. Yet they finished second in the West with an 11-4-1 record. Great team or not?

Baltimore likely would have been a two-time champion if not for that controversial Ray Alexander catch in 1994. In today's game, that would have been ruled incomplete.

[OV Argo]

[QUOTE=argolio;65059]Propping up Champion A as being definitively better than Champion B is so subjective and generally unprovable, even more so with teams from different eras. Take a team like the '84 Bombers. They had ten CFL all-stars (four more than any other team) and playoff winning margins of 35, 17, and 30 points. Yet they finished second in the West with an 11-4-1 record. Great team or not?

Baltimore likely would have been a two-time champion if not for that controversial Ray Alexander catch in 1994. In today's game, that would have been ruled incomplete.[/QUOTE

With video review today - that Alexander catch would have been ruled good, or else good via PI as there was blatant pass interference on him on the play.

The 84 Bombers are another example of a way better GC team than the Stallions, to go along with some of the others I mentioned.

[jerrym]

[QUOTE=OV Argo;65063]

Baltimore likely would have been a two-time champion if not for that controversial Ray Alexander catch in 1994. In today's game, that would have been ruled incomplete.

I agree on the catch but I still would pick the 96-97 Argos as the best team ever.

[Will]

Please note that I have noticed inaccuracies in the totals in the past.

Like many other Tracy Ham-led teams (except in Toronto) the Stallions won as a result of a powerful running game (in this instance Mike Pringle) that featured Ham's running skills. The receiving corps for the '95 Stallions was led by Chris Armstrong at 1,111 yards, however, the second leading receiver registered 532 receiving yards. The Stallions rushed for 2,754 (153 YPG) and with an all-American OL were able to oppose their will. Their passing offense only registered 3,888 yards (216 YPG) but with such a dominant running game it really didn't matter. I don't have TOP statistics, but I suspect their quite high. The Stallions were also dominant against the run allowing only 1424 yards (79 YPG) again with a great front four featuring Elfrid Payton and Jerald Baylis among others. The Stallions did allow 5084 passing yards (282 YPG) which is a bit higher than I expected.

The 1997 Argonauts featured a 1000 yard rusher in Robert Drummond (1134 yards) and as a team rushed for 2088 yards (116 YPG). The passing attack led by Doug Flutie featured 3 1000 yard receivers (Mitchell, Clemons and Masotti) and threw for 5698 (317 YPG). On defense the Argos allowed 1468 yards (82 YPG) while allowing 3721 passing yards (207 YPG). Both teams were 15-3 but the question will always be how much of an advantage the Stallions had with the import rules. It should also be noted that the Argos also had historically bad teams in Winnipeg and Hamilton respectively, but Montreal was pretty competitive. I think the '97 Argos matchup with the 95 Stallions pretty well, but who knows.

The 1984 Blue Bombers had to beat a very good BC Lions team to get to that Grey Cup as well. Their sack totals were 75 for the entire season, which is ridiculous. I've noticed that sack totals were much higher in the 1980's. Any specific reason for this aside from the s-word?

[OV Argo]

Please note that I have noticed inaccuracies in the totals in the past.

Like many other Tracy Ham-led teams (except in Toronto) the Stallions won as a result of a powerful running game (in this instance Mike Pringle) that featured Ham's running skills. The receiving corps for the '95 Stallions was led by Chris Armstrong at 1,111 yards, however, the second leading receiver registered 532 receiving yards. The Stallions rushed for 2,754 (153 YPG) and with an all-American OL were able to oppose their will. Their passing offense only registered 3,888 yards (216 YPG) but with such a dominant running game it really didn't matter. I don't have TOP statistics, but I suspect their quite high. The Stallions were also dominant against the run allowing only 1424 yards (79 YPG) again with a great front four featuring Elfrid Payton and Jerald Baylis among others. The Stallions did allow 5084 passing yards (282 YPG) which is a bit higher than I expected.

The 1997 Argonauts featured a 1000 yard rusher in Robert Drummond (1134 yards) and as a team rushed for 2088 yards (116 YPG). The passing attack led by Doug Flutie featured 3 1000 yard receivers (Mitchell, Clemons and Masotti) and threw for 5698 (317 YPG). On defense the Argos allowed 1468 yards (82 YPG) while allowing 3721 passing yards (207 YPG). Both teams were 15-3 but the question will always be how much of an advantage the Stallions had with the import rules. It should also be noted that the Argos also had historically bad teams in Winnipeg and Hamilton respectively, but Montreal was pretty competitive. I think the '97 Argos matchup with the 95 Stallions pretty well, but who knows.

The 1984 Blue Bombers had to beat a very good BC Lions team to get to that Grey Cup as well. Their sack totals were 75 for the entire season, which is ridiculous. I've noticed that sack totals were much higher in the 1980's. Any specific reason for this aside from the s-word?

The Stallions supposedly oh so superior all American O-line got basically man-handled by the BC front 7 (featuring all NIs on the D-line) in the 94 GC game - so, they somehow were not just able to impose their will that game = go figure; and the supposed oh so superior advantage of being able to go all import was vastly over-rated and over-stated in those CFL times = typical Canadian inferiority complex stuff: NONE of those American CFL teams featured a single Canadian player in their line-ups ... because none, zero, zip ,nadda Canadian players got try-outs with those teams. The rosters of those American CFL teams, outside of the top 10 to 15 starters or so (more on Baltimore) featured players who were average to mediocre at best and nowhere near as good as some of the Canadian talent in the league .... who those American teams were ignorant of or chose to discount as guys who could have helped their rosters.

[jerrym]

NONE of those American CFL teams featured a single Canadian player in their line-ups ... because none, zero, zip ,nadda Canadian players got try-outs with those teams. The rosters of those American CFL teams, outside of the top 10 to 15 starters or so (more on Baltimore) featured players who were average to mediocre at best and nowhere near as good as some of the Canadian talent in the league .... who those American teams were ignorant of or chose to discount as guys who could have helped their rosters.

According to a Don Mathews interview that I remember, Don did try to sign Jeff Fairholm, who had gained 1,393 yards for the Riders in 1993, for the Baltimore Stallions but he signed with the Argos. So your statement remains correct. Jeff would go on to play three years for the Argos where Don coached him in 1996.

http://www.cflapedia.com/Players/f/fairholm_jeff.htm

[AngeloV]

NONE of those American CFL teams featured a single Canadian player in their line-ups ... because none, zero, zip ,nadda Canadian players got try-outs with those teams. The rosters of those American CFL teams, outside of the top 10 to 15 starters or so (more on Baltimore) featured players who were average to mediocre at best and nowhere near as good as some of the Canadian talent in the league .... who those American teams were ignorant of or chose to discount as guys who could have helped their rosters.

How many really good Canadians were actually available? All the good ones were already likely under contract when the Stallions started. I would say the players that you deemed to be mediocre was a lot better than the Canadians that were actually available to them. Personally, I think it's a good thing the US expansion didn't last longer. The unfair playing field would have gotten worse and worse, and I think the only option to level the playing field would have been to get rid of the Canadian quota for Canadian based teams as well. That would have been the death of the league, because then it would truly have become a 2nd tier American league.

[OV Argo]

How many really good Canadians were actually available? All the good ones were already likely under contract when the Stallions started. I would say the players that you deemed to be mediocre was a lot better than the Canadians that were actually available to them. Personally, I think it's a good thing the US expansion didn't last longer. The unfair playing field would have gotten worse and worse, and I think the only option to level the playing field would have been to get rid of the Canadian quota for Canadian based teams as well. That would have been the death of the league, because then it would truly have become a 2nd tier American league.

So - the US based CFL teams of that time were able to sign all sorts of proven vet American CFL players but not a single Canadian was available or courted by them ??? And there are plenty of other avenues to acquire players - trades, undrafted FAs, other teams' TC cuts. The American teams gleefully ignored even trying out Canadian players in favor of their guys; the same would go for most other American run Canadian based CFL teams if they could get away with. Kinda sad that the "radical" league features thinking tipped so far that way and zero, nothing to counter it - where's Teddy Morris - Arrrrrrrrrrrrrrgoooooos !!!

[jerrym]

So - the US based CFL teams of that time were able to sign all sorts of proven vet American CFL players but not a single Canadian was available or courted by them ??? And there are plenty of other avenues to acquire players - trades, undrafted FAs, other teams' TC cuts. The American teams gleefully ignored even trying out Canadian players in favor of their guys; the same would go for most other American run Canadian based CFL teams if they could get away with. Kinda sad that the "radical" league features thinking tipped so far that way and zero, nothing to counter it - where's Teddy Morris - Arrrrrrrrrrrrrrgoooooos !!!

IIRC, Mathews, in the interview in which he mentioned his attempt to sign Jeff Fairholm for Baltimore, there was also a problem of trying to get Canadians CFLers to play in the US because of work laws restricting foreigners working in the US, although he said this was not impossible it did create extra hassles. While the Free Trade Agreement with the US makes working in the US easier, it's not a wide open entry process. I have heard of fairly popular Canadian rock bands not being given permits to play for even a weekend for example.

[zontar]

If I recall Balt was extremely lucky to get past WPG in the playoffs that year. Eskimoes dynasty was the best. Full stop.

[Argo57]

If I recall Balt was extremely lucky to get past WPG in the playoffs that year. Eskimoes dynasty was the best. Full stop.

Those Eskimo teams were so dominant they can't be overlooked, however the 96-97 Argonaut World Championship teams had it all, great defence, special teams, Doug Flutie, Pinball and Robert Drummond.
Hard to top those lineups!!

[zontar]

Those Eskimo teams were so dominant they can't be overlooked, however the 96-97 Argonaut World Championship teams had it all, great defence, special teams, Doug Flutie, Pinball and Robert Drummond.
Hard to top those lineups!!

Drummond was very under rated. At his peak he was unstoppable.

[AngeloV]

Those Eskimo teams were so dominant they can't be overlooked, however the 96-97 Argonaut World Championship teams had it all, great defence, special teams, Doug Flutie, Pinball and Robert Drummond.
Hard to top those lineups!!

'81 Esks..14-1-1 and though they got off to a bad start in that Grey Cup came back and won. To me, that is the most dominating team I have seen.

[Argo57]

'81 Esks..14-1-1 and though they got off to a bad start in that Grey Cup came back and won. To me, that is the most dominating team I have seen.

No arguments with that assessment Angelo.

[paulwoods13]

'81 Esks..14-1-1 and though they got off to a bad start in that Grey Cup came back and won. To me, that is the most dominating team I have seen.

They were 8-1-1 against teams that could actually play that season, and 6-0 against Toronto, Montreal and Ottawa. I grant the Esks dynasty was amazing but I think that particular year, with one-third of the league completely incompetent, may not have been their best squad. I'd make a case for 1982, when they won in 10 games in a row to close out the season and crushed a very strong Argonauts team in the Grey Cup.

[ArgoRavi]

They were 8-1-1 against teams that could actually play that season, and 6-0 against Toronto, Montreal and Ottawa. I grant the Esks dynasty was amazing but I think that particular year, with one-third of the league completely incompetent, may not have been their best squad. I'd make a case for 1982, when they won in 10 games in a row to close out the season and crushed a very strong Argonauts team in the Grey Cup.

Maybe we could combine the 1981 and 1982 Esks. I know that you remember, Paul, how many were counting the Esks out in '82 when they were 3-5, including that memorable early August loss to the Argos in Toronto. Of course, they never lost again after that.