August 14, 2015: Toronto Argonauts vs. Winnipeg Blue Bombers

[Argo]

That makes sense Paul. What do you do with Spencer if Owens is ready to return? I would hate to see him out of the lineup.

Yes indeed, Spencer needs to keep playing. He adds value !

No way. Sit one of the two extra INT DBs (Agnew and B. Smith last night). Pfeffer is good but inconsistent as hell. Waters has to dress as soon as he is healthy.

"Pfeffer is good but inconsistent as hell" ... fairly massive overstatement in that qualifier.

"Waters has to dress as soon as he is healthy." No doubt, and I hope that we do not soon see a third lengthy absence by Waters.

[Argo]

If Kackert stay healthy, we are going to the Grey Cup !! Imagine a healthy Ricky Ray and Chad Owens thrown into this mix. As much as Harris has done, he is the man for the future, but this year, you have to give Ricky Ray his last shot. He was throwing with a bad shoulder last season and still put up good numbers. What a difference between Josey and Kackert tonight. Josey had negative yards for most of the night, if he didn't finish with negative yards. He looks too small and slow to make a decision. Kackert just has that deceptive explosiveness and punches through or can make that little lateral step and get around the pile.

My impression is that when Ray is deemed ready to play he will start. I'd most definitely prefer to see Harris continue to start with Ray getting some playing time along the way.
Harris has been as successful as any QB in the league: he is (or certainly should be) un-benchable.
And let's not forget: the (very) tough part of the season is now over for the Argonauts, a team that has had continued success despite being hobbled by injury and stressed by onerous travel.

[paulwoods13]

That makes sense Paul. What do you do with Spencer if Owens is ready to return? I would hate to see him out of the lineup.

He stays in lineup and Shaw sits.

[AngeloV]

Trevor Harris TD to INT ratio is now an astounding 4:1

That is definitely a great stat. It is the Milanovich teaching system of progression of reads that helps that. The Argos ratio has been great since Milanovich became coach here. Ray was 21 to 2 in 2013 and 28 to 15 with perhaps the worst receiving core in the league next to Ottawa last season. As long as the Argos don't turn over the ball, they will have a chance to win every game.

[gilthethrill]

He stays in lineup and Shaw sits.

Will Elliott be healthy next game along with Owens? Can we dress Hazelton, Owens, Gurley, Eliott & Spencer?

[Will]

For the first three quarters this game had the loss in Ottawa last July or the Labour Day loss to Hamilton written all over it, but this year's edition (at least so far) finds ways to win football games. A.J Jefferson provided the needed spark; Tori Gurley takes a huge hit but holds on for the TD and Chad Kackert is an awesome story right now. The Argos have a little more time to rest and get rid of the bumps and bruises and prepare for a tough Rough Riders team.

[doubleblue]

Will Elliott be healthy next game along with Owens? Can we dress Hazelton, Owens, Gurley, Eliott & Spencer?

When all these guys are healthy I wouldn't be surprised if Hazelton sits a couple of games to get his just reward for taking those trash talking penalties. But going by past history one of these guys will get dinged and have to sit out.
Barker and his scouts really hit the jack pot this year with those new receivers. I can see Elliott going back to the NFL next year and maybe Hazelton as well. Gurley might stick around for a couple of years if they can pay him some decent money. Spencer could be the eventual replacement for Owens.
To me the new Big Three are as good or better than Inman and Childs.

Speaking of Barker's scouts, he mentioned the other night on Hogan's program that former Argo Coach John Jenkins does some scouting for him down South.

[AngeloV]

Will Elliott be healthy next game along with Owens? Can we dress Hazelton, Owens, Gurley, Eliott & Spencer?

I think they can all dress. Argos dressed 7 d-lineman last night with Canadian Cam Walker dressing for the first time, but not seeing action. You can easily take Vega out of the line-up if need be.

When all these guys are healthy I wouldn't be surprised if Hazelton sits a couple of games to get his just reward for taking those trash talking penalties.

There is no way they take Hazelton out of the line-up.

[paulwoods13]

I don't think they can easily dress five INT receivers as well as Waters. I doubt they will take Vega out of the lineup -- he is rounding into form and they really believe in the d-line rotation. I don't think they would see Walker as ready for the rotation yet. He did play special teams last night, tho. (And so did Kackert -- he was on the punt return team for Jefferson's TD and then was out there on the kickoff team next play. Keep that up and he'll be in game shape very soon.)

[ArgoRavi]

This game was making me nervous ..... Maybe the mobile Marve was the better choice for the Bombers against our Defense.

Kackert was awesome and definitely shone in comparison to Josey. Not only better in yards gained but also picking up the needed blocks to protect Harris.

I was also worried for tonight regarding the penalties. Last week the Argos and the Bombers were complete opposites. I was worried that we would give up too many yards on penalties ...... But thank goodness Winnipeg got their fair share this week as well.

Both these teams were beaten cleanly by the kittens ..... And the way the Argos played tonight , doesn't put them too much better than the Bombers ..... But not yet playing a full game to challenge the Ticats yet.
Another close win which didn't have to be that way

They don't ask how you win games but that you win games. Honestly, I don't worry about Hamilton having blown the Bombers out twice while last night's game was a close one. While I don't expect the Bombers to make the playoffs, they are a better team than they showed against Hamilton. What the Argos have proven so far this year - and Hamilton actually hasn't shown this yet (re: close losses to Calgary and Montreal) - is an ability to win the close games and make big plays at clutch times. You need to be able to do that in October and November and the Argos seem more than capable of doing so.

Are the Argos as good as the Ticats right now? Probably not but they aren't that far away. I feel very confident that the Argos will be at least at Hamilton's level by playoff time.

[AngeloV]

They don't ask how you win games but that you win games. Honestly, I don't worry about Hamilton having blown the Bombers out twice while last night's game was a close one. While I don't expect the Bombers to make the playoffs, they are a better team than they showed against Hamilton. What the Argos have proven so far this year - and Hamilton actually hasn't shown this yet (re: close losses to Calgary and Montreal) - is an ability to win the close games and make big plays at clutch times. You need to be able to do that in October and November and the Argos seem more than capable of doing so.

Are the Argos as good as the Ticats right now? Probably not but they aren't that far away. I feel very confident that the Argos will be at least at Hamilton's level by playoff time.

Bombers D has actually done OK against Hamilton. I believe in the 2 games, Hamilton has 4 defensive and 1 return TD. Last week, the Cats didn't have any TD drives that started on their side of mid field. Cats D has really set the tone this year.

[QBall]

My heart can't take these come from behind, down to the last play of the game victories week after week.

[Wobbler]

Despite the excitement and comebacks, lately I find this season to be almost *relaxing* to watch. It always seems like we're going to win, even when we're down by two scores. This is a really solid team.

[argotom]

Despite the excitement and comebacks, lately I find this season to be almost *relaxing* to watch. It always seems like we're going to win, even when we're down by two scores. This is a really solid team.

Absolutely agree with you, the team just goes into a different gear in the 4th to win.

[Gill The Thrill]

Nothing has gone right for Henry Josey.

This guy should not be on the roster...if he's a national, people would think he's just taking up a spot and would never expect him to touch the ball. Coombs is a much better player and he's from the University of Manitoba, while Josey played at Missourri and put up decent numbers...shows you how overated US college ball is and that coaches are just more familiar with those schools rather than the Canadian schools. Was wondering what the hell were the coaches thinking when they gave him the ball backed up near the goal line and gave up the safety? Sure there may have been a missed block, but he just froze after getting that ball in the endzone.

Great game by Kackert, couldn't happen to a better guy!!

Kackert was also evidence in showing how inneffective Josey was, but then I thought Kackert was great from day1 and was better than the back who was with the Argos when he first arrived. I guess great minds think alike in Milanovich and myself...lol

Expected more from Josey, would keep him around if possible.
Hopefully they will be careful with Kackert and not overuse him at this point, great confidence boost for him and the team.
Was hoping TSN would show more of Eugene Marve in the stands tonight, they beat that angle like a dead horse didn't they.

Leave it to Rod Black to sniff out all the ex-NFL players in the stands, but
why would you keep Josey around and would you think this way if he came out of Mac, Western, Laval or any other CIS school?..not saying you would necessarily but that most, including many coaches in the CFL would not. This guy has done nothing all year. His numbers are downright terrible. He has no acceleration making him too slow to get to the outside. He also doesn't have the strength to overpower and run through tackles, so that pretty much tells you the story on him and why I think he should be gone.

Did Josey even have a positive gain last night? Not putting it all on him, but no way he plays over Whittaker or Kackert. AJ Jefferson turns the game around for a second time this year with a huge 4th quarter TD. If Smith cant go next week, do we keep Pfeifer on the roster over Waters in order to dress King at Guard? Hazelton is a good player but must learn to keep his mouth shut. Defense came through in the 4th with 3 turnovers.

Trevor Harris TD to INT ratio is now an astounding 4:1...Kackerts return should dominate the sports talk radio on Monday, but I read the Jays released minor league pitcher Joba Chamerlain.

Agree with your analysis on Josey, heard him on Argo access talk about hoping to get another shot at the NFL, sorry but that's laughable based on his play up here. He's not quick enough to be a pro player, neither here nor in the NFL and reminds me of another overhyped guy from Missouri who thought he was just going to come up and play but is also too slow at his position. I know American players grow up dreaming of the big pay day playing in the NFL but this myopic view is what usually spells doom for a player who comes up here and forgets that he better concentrate on battling for a regular position in the CFL. When they forget that, and come up short in doing that, you can be sure that NFL coaches and GM's will not be willing to give him a serious look.

Pfeffer punting has been pretty good for the most part, so I would keep him on the roster even if Swayze gets back. Keep him on the PR at worse, but leg injuries such as was sustained by Waters might tempt me to keep both on the active roster. Can't believe people would discuss sitting Hazelton?? He's been the most consistent receiver and has the best hands. Sure he took that penalty but he sat out a few series to get the message. Whitaker and Kackert should be playing and the import that should be sitting, if not gone is Josey, next on the list to sit may be Vince Agnew although he covered OK last night and works on Special teams.

[paulwoods13]

Josey has clearly fallen to fourth on the RB depth chart, but I'm not prepared to abandon him yet. At this time last season Slaton had done nothing, either, and he ended up making very solid contributions down the stretch. It's good to have depth.

I don't see any reason to dress Pfeffer when Waters returns. Waters is as good a punter as there is in the league; Pfeffer has been inconsistent, with several shanks. We still have Stala for emergencies. Dressing someone otherwise superfluous in case of injury seems like a defeatist strategy.

[gilthethrill]

Josey has clearly fallen to fourth on the RB depth chart, but I'm not prepared to abandon him yet. At this time last season Slaton had done nothing, either, and he ended up making very solid contributions down the stretch. It's good to have depth.

I don't see any reason to dress Pfeffer when Waters returns. Waters is as good a punter as there is in the league; Pfeffer has been inconsistent, with several shanks. We still have Stala for emergencies. Dressing someone otherwise superfluous in case of injury seems like a defeatist strategy.

I think Pfeffer will emerge on the IR. Can't let this kid go. Any idea who he beat out in the kicking competition to secure the job?

[Argo]

I think Pfeffer will emerge on the IR. Can't let this kid go. Any idea who he beat out in the kicking competition to secure the job?

Waters, perennially, misses so many games due to annual injury, coupled with the fact the Pfeffer has done rather well (and is Canadian), means that if in any way possible, a "job" should be found for the "injured" Pfeffer.

Josey has clearly fallen to fourth on the RB depth chart, but I'm not prepared to abandon him yet. At this time last season Slaton had done nothing, either, and he ended up making very solid contributions down the stretch. It's good to have depth.

However, even in early days, one look at Slaton indicated that good things could be expected. IIRC, Slaton also had some proven value before joining the Argonauts.

Milanovich et al. must see something in young Josey in order to keep him around.

[Gill The Thrill]

Waters, perennially, misses so many games due to annual injury, coupled with the fact the Pfeffer has done rather well (and is Canadian), means that if in any way possible, a "job" should be found for the "injured" Pfeffer.

As much as Waters has been a good character for this organization as well as a good kicker, especially punter. I do see Pfeffer probably replacing him next season as the kicker. Swayze is a better punter now, but I see Pfeffer improving each week. He's placekicking is just as good but being a Canadian makes him valuable as a ratio breaker. Such is life for an American kicker in the CFL. Many good American kickers have played in the CFL for shorter periods than Waters already has. Delbert Alvarado in Ottawa was an American who got cut, and I don't think the guy they replaced him with has as much leg. Nick Setta was another American from Notre Dame who played decently in Hamilton was another guy. Duval in Montreal was probably the last American kicker to have a lengthy stay kicking in the CFL, unless I'm missing someone now.

Canadian kickers have made a comeback as I thought there was a real dearth of good kickers coming out of the CIS a decade ago, which gave room to some Americans to kick in the CFL. Remember the 80's and early 90's when every team had a Canadian kicking and some like the Winnipeg Blue Bombers had both a Canadian Punter and Placekicker in Ken Cameron and Trevor Kennard respectively.

[Wobbler]

I think some of you have forgotten how good Waters is. One more Canadian at a non-starting position isn't particularly important, but having the best possible kicker certainly is.