Dwindling Argos Attendance Problem - No Promotion

[R.J]

I hope that a lot of the Argonauts issues change once under the TanenELL ownership along with playing at BMO Field.
The team sorely needs a mass marketing campaign, as well as some media hype thrown there way, this is where Rogers also coming on board could have theoretically helped IMO (if Rogers got completely on board with the CFL and Argonauts). The team and league need a shot in the arm right now and I think if the Argonauts can rebound the League should follow suit.

[Gill The Thrill]

Get kids active...I really don't think kids need to start playing real football till their twelve...they have leagues for tykes and under, but it's really a joke with the coaches on the field at the youngest levels and so few kids touching the ball. Better to get them to play flag or touch even at that age and master the fundamentals....passing, catching and running. The lineman can learn how to be lineman at 12 and up....Nobody mastered the technique of playing on the line at 9 years old.

[ArgoGabe22]

Get kids active...I really don't think kids need to start playing real football till their twelve...they have leagues for tykes and under, but it's really a joke with the coaches on the field at the youngest levels and so few kids touching the ball. Better to get them to play flag or touch even at that age and master the fundamentals....passing, catching and running. The lineman can learn how to be lineman at 12 and up....Nobody mastered the technique of playing on the line at 9 years old.

FYI, former Argos Anthony Cannon along with Maurice Mann, Jordan Younger, Cory Boyd (to some degree, as he left for the US) founded and operate a 7v7 developmental football league but I believe it only really caters for the "skill" positions and the lighter body types. Now, how many of those players watch the Argos in person? I doubt any of them unless they grew up as an Argo fan.

[argofandave]

CHCHtv in Hamilton reported on their 6pm news tonight that Robert Bateman HS in Burlington is dropping their football teams because they didn't have enough players of the proper size to form teams. The principal was concerned about the players getting injured. They may bring back the teams next year.

[AngeloV]

CHCHtv in Hamilton reported on their 6pm news tonight that Robert Bateman HS in Burlington is dropping their football teams because they didn't have enough players of the proper size to form teams. The principal was concerned about the players getting injured. They may bring back the teams next year.

Nothing new here. When I started playing high school football in North York in '84, our league had 14 teams. By my final year in '87 we were down to 4. Now with the amalgamation, I believe there are 3 or 4 North York schools platying in the Toronto league. I believe the Argos helped bring back 2 of those schools a few years ago, but the powerhouse North York teams of the 70's and 80's like George Vanier (produced great Argo Mike Campbell), Victoria Park (Jamie Chrysdale), and my own AY Jackson (Orville Lee), no longer play football.

[Will]

My high school Vaughan Secondary is a basketball powerhouse, but never had a football team. A friend who was on the basketball team was told by the vice-principal that it was simply too cost-prohibitive to start a team. What was the reason for the decline Angelo? Schools simply couldn't find enough capable players to field a team?

[argos1873]

Many parents and kids are avoiding playing football due to concussion (and other ) injury risks.

Which is silly, because, correct me if I'm wrong, most of the concussion issues are at the pro or college level when you are up against 250+lbs behemoths running at very quick speeds. Hockey is plenty dangerous too, but everyone thinks their little Johnny is going to be a star in the NHL and make millions, so to hell with the risks.

[AngeloV]

What was the reason for the decline Angelo? Schools simply couldn't find enough capable players to field a team?

From what I understand, it was number of things. Capable players for sure, but also apparently the costs of new equipment and insurance. I honestly don't know what AYJ has in terms of sports anymore. I played on the football and baseball team, we had hockey, basketball and volleyball teams as well, but I'm not quite sure anymore. High school sports is hardly covered in the daily papers anymore.

[Argo57]

Which is silly, because, correct me if I'm wrong, most of the concussion issues are at the pro or college level when you are up against 250+lbs behemoths running at very quick speeds. Hockey is plenty dangerous too, but everyone thinks their little Johnny is going to be a star in the NHL and make millions, so to hell with the risks.

When I coached my son Atom Division team in 2012 (9 year old) our team alone had 3 concussions and one "stinger" to which we had an ambulance on the field so not all that silly, however it is the age old dilemma parent face regarding protecting your kids and letting them experience different things and letting them grow.

[1argoholic]

While living in Duncan BC we got following one of our friends boys playing minor football for the Cowichan Valley Bulldogs. Just heard that he's playing his last 18 year old season this year. Some of the kids through the age groups are huge and I know concussions happen at all age levels.
Just heard that one of Mitch's former teammates is playing at UBC this year and another with The Nanaimo Rebels Jr ball. Some great talent coming from Van Isle. Terrell Davis played in Victoria and spent two seasons with Arizona St before moving back to Canada and UBC.

[jerrym]

Originally Posted by argos1873
Which is silly, because, correct me if I'm wrong, most of the concussion issues are at the pro or college level when you are up against 250+lbs behemoths running at very quick speeds. Hockey is plenty dangerous too, but everyone thinks their little Johnny is going to be a star in the NHL and make millions, so to hell with the risks.

When I coached my son Atom Division team in 2012 (9 year old) our team alone had 3 concussions and one "stinger" to which we had an ambulance on the field so not all that silly, however it is the age old dilemma parent face regarding protecting your kids and letting them experience different things and letting them grow.

It's not just football. Eleven years ago, my oldest son played minor hockey the same year a CBC Fifth Estate show reported on how the head of Toronto Minor Hockey had commissioned a study to show that hitting was safe in hockey for 11 year olds (it had been banned until 14 for over a decade). Lo and behold the study stated hitting caused no increase in injuries. However, the three members of the Canadian Minor Hockey Safety Committee resigned in protest, including a doctor who had been on the committee for 25 years. Being suspicious, the Fifth Estate investigated and confronted the statistician who wrote the report with an analysis of the same data from another statistician. They forced the report writer to admit that his own statistics actually showed a fourfold increase in injuries and then presented the evidence to the Toronto and Canadian Minor Hockey Association, which said they had already made a decision to implement hitting for 11 year olds and went ahead and did so.
The assistant coach of my son's team went on to show Don Cherry's Greatest Hits to my son's 10 year old team to prepare them for 11 year old hitting next year.
That was it for me. I took my son out of hockey and put him in swimming (the best thing I ever did sport wise - he went on win an $18,000 NCAA swimming scholarship, became a lifeguard, swim coach and personal fitness instructor).
I showed the Fifth Estate video on the hitting statistics scandal to other parents on the team but all except one basically denied the evidence in front of their eyes. Even the one who admitted there was a major problem decided in the end to let his son keep playing.
Incidentally, that same year, Lanny McDonald, no shrinking violet during his career, pulled a team of 15-16 year olds out of hockey because too many players were being injured by brutal tactics and he felt he had a responsibility to protect their health.

[AngeloV]

I think football takes the brunt of safety complaints, and people turn a blind eye to hockey in this country. I can't see how hockey is safer given the speeds that these players are moving at. Hockey players today are also wearing football like shoulder pads and their helmets are no where near as safe as football helmets.

I think the one thing football really needs to clamp down is helmet to helmet hits. If players willingly stop doing that, I feel football will become very safe. Start with ejections on blatant leading with the crown of the helmet hits at all levels of football.

[Argo]

Originally Posted by argos1873
Which is silly, because, correct me if I'm wrong, most of the concussion issues are at the pro or college level when you are up against 250+lbs behemoths running at very quick speeds. Hockey is plenty dangerous too, but everyone thinks their little Johnny is going to be a star in the NHL and make millions, so to hell with the risks.


It's not just football. Eleven years ago, my oldest son played minor hockey the same year a CBC Fifth Estate show reported on how the head of Toronto Minor Hockey had commissioned a study to show that hitting was safe in hockey for 11 year olds (it had been banned until 14 for over a decade). Lo and behold the study stated hitting caused no increase in injuries. However, the three members of the Canadian Minor Hockey Safety Committee resigned in protest, including a doctor who had been on the committee for 25 years. Being suspicious, the Fifth Estate investigated and confronted the statistician who wrote the report with an analysis of the same data from another statistician. They forced the report writer to admit that his own statistics actually showed a fourfold increase in injuries and then presented the evidence to the Toronto and Canadian Minor Hockey Association, which said they had already made a decision to implement hitting for 11 year olds and went ahead and did so.
The assistant coach of my son's team went on to show Don Cherry's Greatest Hits to my son's 10 year old team to prepare them for 11 year old hitting next year.
That was it for me. I took my son out of hockey and put him in swimming (the best thing I ever did sport wise - he went on win an $18,000 NCAA swimming scholarship, became a lifeguard, swim coach and personal fitness instructor).
I showed the Fifth Estate video on the hitting statistics scandal to other parents on the team but all except one basically denied the evidence in front of their eyes. Even the one who admitted there was a major problem decided in the end to let his son keep playing.
Incidentally, that same year, Lanny McDonald, no shrinking violet during his career, pulled a team of 15-16 year olds out of hockey because too many players were being injured by brutal tactics and he felt he had a responsibility to protect their health.

Rationality and critical thinking, evidence-based policy and decision, honesty and integrity are the candles in the dark.

[Neely2005]

I think football takes the brunt of safety complaints, and people turn a blind eye to hockey in this country. I can't see how hockey is safer given the speeds that these players are moving at. Hockey players today are also wearing football like shoulder pads and their helmets are no where near as safe as football helmets.

I think the one thing football really needs to clamp down is helmet to helmet hits. If players willingly stop doing that, I feel football will become very safe. Start with ejections on blatant leading with the crown of the helmet hits at all levels of football.

As I said earlier the difference is that you can play hockey in a non contact division. Aside from Flag Football you can't do that in football.

Also just to clarify the age for body checking was raised to 13 in 2013.

Also in the GTHL it's 18 unless you're playing AA or higher:

http://www.cbc.ca/m/news/canada/toro...m-as-1.2985904

[AngeloV]

As I said earlier the difference is that you can play hockey in a non contact division. Aside from Flag Football you can't do that in football.

Also just to clarify the age for body checking was raised to 13 in 2013.

Also in the GTHL it's 18 unless you're playing AA or higher:

http://www.cbc.ca/m/news/canada/toro...m-as-1.2985904

Even in non contact hockey collisions happen. When you have 10 skaters on the ice moving as fast as they do, it happens. A lot of hockey injuries also come from non contact situations. Skating at the speed people do, it's not hard to lose your balance and fly into the boards.

[Neely2005]

Even in non contact hockey collisions happen. When you have 10 skaters on the ice moving as fast as they do, it happens. A lot of hockey injuries also come from non contact situations. Skating at the speed people do, it's not hard to lose your balance and fly into the boards.

Sure accidents can happen anywhere, but in football there is multiple contact in every play. In hockey there is not.

[Gill The Thrill]

I don't think collision contact sports should be played until 13 or even 14 at the earliest. Somebody quoted Lanny Macdonald pulling a team of 15-16 year olds out of hockey because of concussions or cheap shot tactics by opponents and he was no wimp in the big leagues. Bobby Clarke was as frickin ruthless as anyone who's ever held a hockey stick and he has publicly stated that kids don't need to play contact hockey until jr which is 15 at the earliest, but usually 16 or 17.

The Brain is very sensitive, much more for young kids and early teenagers because even if they're grown in height, their neck muscles are still not as formed and that also leaves them more susceptible to concussions as their head risks jarring even with a clean hit that is not directly a head shot.

[Gill The Thrill]

Even in non contact hockey collisions happen. When you have 10 skaters on the ice moving as fast as they do, it happens. A lot of hockey injuries also come from non contact situations. Skating at the speed people do, it's not hard to lose your balance and fly into the boards.

You'd be surprised, maybe not, at how many people get injuries that are concussion related pleasure skating. You mention 10 skaters at once, I could remember 50-100 people pleasure skating, and you always have those risk takers (usually boys) that end up knocking people over like bowling pins trying to skate fast and carelessly around everybody. Used to know a lifeguard and he said the worst injuries were when people fell and had their fingers skated over, so any activity carries some form of risk. Bumps in the head were also common, especially playing British Bulldog...it was basically one man chase from one end to the other until everyone was tagged, akin to returning punts with no blockers. That activity could potentially lead to injuries especially near boards but man was that good exercise improving speed and agility.