November 15, 2015: Toronto Argonauts vs. Hamilton Tiger-Cats

[Argo]

Gotta love a db who can't back peddle or turn. I couldn't believe he face planted on that play. To me that was the game.

The team needs significant upgrading including, of course, the secondary.

[ArgoRavi]

The team needs significant upgrading including, of course, the secondary.

I am not convinced that the secondary is that bad. It takes time for import defensive backs to learn the Canadian game and it is even more of a challenge when you have four of those players playing together for the first time. Bring in lots of competition and see what happens next year but I wouldn't be shocked to see much the same secondary next year play much better.

[AngeloV]

I am not convinced that the secondary is that bad. It takes time for import defensive backs to learn the Canadian game and it is even more of a challenge when you have four of those players playing together for the first time. Bring in lots of competition and see what happens next year but I wouldn't be shocked to see much the same secondary next year play much better.

It especially is difficult when you have rookies at HB. CB, is pretty much the same in all types of football, so it is easier to play rookies there. HB with the waggle is very difficult to start rookies. I also prefer HB's to be a little bigger than what the Argos had this year, so if the Argos are active in CFL free agency, I would like to see them look at veteran HB's.

[argotom]

I am not convinced that the secondary is that bad. It takes time for import defensive backs to learn the Canadian game and it is even more of a challenge when you have four of those players playing together for the first time. Bring in lots of competition and see what happens next year but I wouldn't be shocked to see much the same secondary next year play much better.

I am with you Ravi, other then perhaps getting taller corners to better cover the deep men on the zero cover side.
Otherwise, it's the overall scheme and again the philosophy of our current DC which as most of us have said requires replacement.

[Argo]

I am not convinced that the secondary is that bad. It takes time for import defensive backs to learn the Canadian game and it is even more of a challenge when you have four of those players playing together for the first time. Bring in lots of competition and see what happens next year but I wouldn't be shocked to see much the same secondary next year play much better.

It'll probably boil down to pragmatics. If we can find superior talent (known through TC competition), attempt replacement; if not, status quo.

[OV Argo]

I am not convinced that the secondary is that bad. It takes time for import defensive backs to learn the Canadian game and it is even more of a challenge when you have four of those players playing together for the first time. Bring in lots of competition and see what happens next year but I wouldn't be shocked to see much the same secondary next year play much better.

So - what type of coaching staff goes with that type of secondary and hopes or prays they can be good? A veteran Matt Black coulda been playing in the D backfield over that guy who slipped on a key play in the play-offs and was otherwise mediocre or hit & miss all year; the Argos could have also picked-up that DB (MacDonald i think?) who got let go by Ottawa and got picked-up and started for the Stamps - at least he has some experience and showed he could play for Ottawa (till they made the dumb decision, IMO, to cut him for some penalty problems) - smart teams observe other team's talent and jump on cast-offs - see Aston Whiteside.

[Argo57]

I am not convinced that the secondary is that bad. It takes time for import defensive backs to learn the Canadian game and it is even more of a challenge when you have four of those players playing together for the first time. Bring in lots of competition and see what happens next year but I wouldn't be shocked to see much the same secondary next year play much better.

I might buy your statement more if the secondary (and D in total) actually improved as the season went on but that didn't happen IMO.
So it's either inferior talent or a coaching issue, I suspect it has more to do with the talent level, Younger played in the league successfully for many years and should be able to teach the young guys the nuances of the CFL, either way Barker and the HC had better figure it out.

[ArgoRavi]

So - what type of coaching staff goes with that type of secondary and hopes or prays they can be good? A veteran Matt Black coulda been playing in the D backfield over that guy who slipped on a key play in the play-offs and was otherwise mediocre or hit & miss all year; the Argos could have also picked-up that DB (MacDonald i think?) who got let go by Ottawa and got picked-up and started for the Stamps - at least he has some experience and showed he could play for Ottawa (till they made the dumb decision, IMO, to cut him for some penalty problems) - smart teams observe other team's talent and jump on cast-offs - see Aston Whiteside.

Maybe the Argos didn't have the financial resources available to pick up a guy like MacDonald or they just didn't think he was an upgrade over what they had or they were concerned with his penchant for bad penalties which was already a problem for the Argos.

I might buy your statement more if the secondary (and D in total) actually improved as the season went on but that didn't happen IMO.
So it's either inferior talent or a coaching issue, I suspect it has more to do with the talent level, Younger played in the league successfully for many years and should be able to teach the young guys the nuances of the CFL, either way Barker and the HC had better figure it out.

I thought that the defence as a whole, including the secondary, improved as the season progressed. Were they a championship-calibre group by the end of the year? No, but they were better than at the beginning of the season.

[R.J]

So - what type of coaching staff goes with that type of secondary and hopes or prays they can be good? A veteran Matt Black coulda been playing in the D backfield over that guy who slipped on a key play in the play-offs and was otherwise mediocre or hit & miss all year; the Argos could have also picked-up that DB (MacDonald i think?) who got let go by Ottawa and got picked-up and started for the Stamps - at least he has some experience and showed he could play for Ottawa (till they made the dumb decision, IMO, to cut him for some penalty problems) - smart teams observe other team's talent and jump on cast-offs - see Aston Whiteside.

While I'm not an Ansah backer whatsoever, he's not the first nor will he be the last player to slip on a play during a football game, key moment or otherwise.

[argotom]

The loss of Pat Watkins a couple of years back when he followed Chris Jones to Edmonton was big.
A couple of Watkins like clones are crucial for next year.