Around the CFL

[R.J]

Montreal attendance is trending down. Yes they made a slight improvement from 2014 to 2015, averaging 21,430 last year, but they were over 23K in 2013, over 24K in 2011 and over 25K in 2010.

A lot of tickets were given away when the 5k (+ suites) expansion was completed.

[KCargosfan]

A lot of tickets were given away when the 5k (+ suites) expansion was completed.

Weird. I thought I remembered the Als saying they had a "waiting list" for season tickets before expansion.

[R.J]

Weird. I thought I remembered the Als saying they had a "waiting list" for season tickets before expansion.

That's what Larry Smith said in order for the expansion to occur. Didn't take long before reports came out that the Als (Smith) were fudging numbers.

[R.J]

I'd have to agree with Ravi. As it currently stands BC is the #1 trouble spot for the league - the Argonauts leap frog them due to the new ownership and moving into a smaller stadium.
If I had to rank them as it currently sits
#1. Saskatchewan
#2. Winnipeg
#3. Hamilton
#4. Ottawa (still new, so I'm not completely sold on them yet and they didn't sell out 3 of their home games in 2015)
#5. Edmonton (I actually am a bit concerned about this market - they won two more games from the previous season and attendance was down about 1,800)
#6. Calgary (NFL snobs are starting to become more visible in the market)
#7. Montreal (Personally I think they need a new owner - IMO Wetenhall has taken them as far as he and his board can. If the Molsons ever bought the team.......)
#8. Toronto (I hope one day we're in the top three, but as it stands we know what this market has become. New owners, leadership and home should help, but there's still a lot of work to be done)
#9. BC (Reminds me a lot of what occurred here in Toronto - apathy is starting to settle in, and the NFL + Whitecaps fan bases are growing).

[Argo57]

I'd have to agree with Ravi. As it currently stands BC is the #1 trouble spot for the league - the Argonauts leap frog them due to the new ownership and moving into a smaller stadium.
If I had to rank them as it currently sits
#1. Saskatchewan
#2. Winnipeg
#3. Hamilton
#4. Ottawa (still new, so I'm not completely sold on them yet and they didn't sell out 3 of their home games in 2015)
#5. Edmonton (I actually am a bit concerned about this market - they won two more games from the previous season and attendance was down about 1,800)
#6. Calgary (NFL snobs are starting to become more visible in the market)
#7. Montreal (Personally I think they need a new owner - IMO Wetenhall has taken them as far as he and his board can. If the Molsons ever bought the team.......)
#8. Toronto (I hope one day we're in the top three, but as it stands we know what this market has become. New owners, leadership and home should help, but there's still a lot of work to be done)
#9. BC (Reminds me a lot of what occurred here in Toronto - apathy is starting to settle in, and the NFL + Whitecaps fan bases are growing).

NFL snobs in Calgary should embrace the Stamps, last time I checked Calgary wasn't on the radar for expansion.

[R.J]

NFL snobs in Calgary should embrace the Stamps, last time I checked Calgary wasn't on the radar for expansion.

The difference between Toronto and cities like Vancouver and Calgary is that latter cities are more than well aware they'll never get an NFL team and don't dream to have one. In saying that it's pretty clear to anyone who's been to those cities that the NFL's popularity is growing to the point that is has here.

[OV Argo]

The difference between Toronto and cities like Vancouver and Calgary is that latter cities are more than well aware they'll never get an NFL team and don't dream to have one. In saying that it's pretty clear to anyone who's been to those cities that the NFL's popularity is growing to the point that is has here.

NFL snobs and NFL wannabes are here to stay in Canada - the CFL can't do anything about those types; however, IMO - the CFL can grow it's fan base without hoping to convert the wannabes. I was quite impressed by the amount of RedBlacks gear (hats, Ts, unis. etc.) sported around Ottawa since a CFL team returned here, AND by the number of younger fans in attendance at RedBlacks games the past couple of seasons. More positive media support towards the CFL could help - not sure how you get all the wannabe types employed there on board however ?

[Will]

1. Saskatchewan--unfortunately, this cannot really be argued.
2. Winnipeg--a ton of passion in that city for a team that hasn't won a Grey Cup since 1990.
3. Hamilton--Bob Young really has resurrected that franchise in the last decade.
4. Ottawa--some of their fans really have rubbed me the wrong way, but I can't deny that Hunt has done a good job with managing that franchise.
5. Edmonton--I don't think they are as strong as they once were.
6. Calgary--really should be better considering the success that team has had in the past.
7. Montreal--as the team continues to trend downward, this is the market to keep an eye on.
8. BC--heading towards where Argos were several years ago.
9. Toronto--controversial, but until a season is in the books, we still have no idea if anything has really changed.

[OV Argo]

1. Saskatchewan--unfortunately, this cannot really be argued.
2. Winnipeg--a ton of passion in that city for a team that hasn't won a Grey Cup since 1990.
3. Hamilton--Bob Young really has resurrected that franchise in the last decade.
4. Ottawa--some of their fans really have rubbed me the wrong way, but I can't deny that Hunt has done a good job with managing that franchise.
5. Edmonton--I don't think they are as strong as they once were.
6. Calgary--really should be better considering the success that team has had in the past.
7. Montreal--as the team continues to trend downward, this is the market to keep an eye on.
8. BC--heading towards where Argos were several years ago.
9. Toronto--controversial, but until a season is in the books, we still have no idea if anything has really changed.

I agree mostly; might switch Ottawa & Hamilton; Edmonton & Calgary are IMO (and sadly) no longer big CFL cities - if they were, IMO they would be getting much bigger crowds, considering the success of these franchises over the past few decades, and the size of the population/demographic. .....

... I wonder what the Riders would consistently draw if they had a Commonwealth sized stadium and Regina had a population of around a million ?

I also wonder what the Als could average IF they had a spanking new stadium in Montreal (and let's pretend there was Commonwealth like 60K seating available) ? New ownership and getting rid of Poop would help there IMO.

BC might be heading the way of the Argos like you say - Braley should sell that team fast and they should get some new blood in (including putting Wally out to pasture IMO).

Agreed on let's wait and see if anything is really different with the Argos this season - I will bet YES though.

[R.J]

I agree mostly; might switch Ottawa & Hamilton; Edmonton & Calgary are IMO (and sadly) no longer big CFL cities - if they were, IMO they would be getting much bigger crowds, considering the success of these franchises over the past few decades, and the size of the population/demographic. .....

... I wonder what the Riders would consistently draw if they had a Commonwealth sized stadium and Regina had a population of around a million ?

I also wonder what the Als could average IF they had a spanking new stadium in Montreal (and let's pretend there was Commonwealth like 60K seating available) ? New ownership and getting rid of Poop would help there IMO.

BC might be heading the way of the Argos like you say - Braley should sell that team fast and they should get some new blood in (including putting Wally out to pasture IMO).

Agreed on let's wait and see if anything is really different with the Argos this season - I will bet YES though.

The Alouettes can't even sell out Percival Molson and your solution is to build a 58,000 seat stadium ?
BTW the big Owe has a lot of seats - do you know what happened to the Alouettes the last time they played there ?

33,000 is perfect for Riderville.

[OV Argo]

The Alouettes can't even sell out Percival Molson and your solution is to build a 58,000 seat stadium ?
BTW the big Owe has a lot of seats - do you know what happened to the Alouettes the last time they played there ?

33,000 is perfect for Riderville.

I didn't say the Als should be building a new stadium, though it might be nice; and Montreal fans were sick of the concrete bowl and don't like the location of the Big Owe; and I believe the novelty of quaint little old Molson Stadium has worn off somewhat. BTW - you are aware of the attendance at the Big Owe for some of the Als play-off games since they moved to Molson? IMO - if it could be built - the Als would be able to average 40K range if there was a new, modern, well located football specific stadium built in Montreal. The Als averaged 59,525 regular season attendance in 77 at the Big Owe (all time highest CFL mark - Edmonton 2nd @ 57,899 in 82; Argos 3rd @ 47,355 in 76; BC 4th @ 46,526 in 86 = good old days of CFL fan support strength - that the league I guess has said are long gone, never to return or even be thought of again ?)

And hypothetically again - 33K may be good enough for the new Regina stadium - I was asking what do you think the Riders in CFL football mad Saskatchewan would average if Regina has a population of closer to a million? Only 33K? I don't think so, and I believe they could average more like 45 to 50 K if they had that kind of demographic to draw from. They did average 37,503 in 2013 - with expanded GC seating available (?).

The CFL and it's owners have chosen to go modest, down-size, small thinking. OK if the idea is just gotta survive instead of grow the league.

[AngeloV]

The Als have been a very successful team since moving back to Montreal. Knowing how fickle Montreal sports fans are, it would be a challenge to fill even a 20k stadium with a couple of bad years.

[jerrym]

Tiger-Cats add 3 Internationals.

The Hamilton Tiger-Cats announced Monday that the football club has signed three international free agents, including offensive lineman Terrence Campbell, and wide receivers Greg Thurmond and Cass White.
Campbell, 28, most recently played two seasons in the Arena Football League, splitting time with the San Jose Sabercats and Orlando Predators in 2013 before making 15 starts at both guard and tackle with Orlando in 2014. He signed as an undrafted free agent with the NFL’s New York Jets in 2012, attended training camp and appeared in two preseason games before being released. The 6-3, 296-pound native of Austell, Georgia, started 25 of 38 games at the University of South Carolina from 2007 to 2011.
Thurmond, 23, appeared in 32 games during his four-year tenure at Prairie View A&M University from 2011 to 2014. The 6-2, 180-pound native of Balch Springs, Texas, posted 96 career receptions for 1,316 yards and 10 touchdowns with the Panthers.
White, 24, is a 5-10, 180-pound wide receiver from San Diego, California. He played three seasons of NCAA Division II football with Humboldt State University (2014) and Southern Nazarene University (2012-13), and was a 2013 NCCAA Second Team All-American.

http://ticats.ca/tiger-cats-add-thre...rs-on-offence/

[R.J]

The 70's and 80's were 40 and 30 years. The days where CFL teams were averaging 40,000 plus are long gone and IMO very very few teams can actually get above 35,000.

[Scooter McCray]

I think most of us on this forum are real fans of the CFL. I don't think any of us wouldn't want to go back to seeing full stadiums. And I don't think it is impossible for it to happen. There needs to be a mindset change in the media that cover sports in Canada to give the CFL the attention it deserves and fans of all ages need to be able to appreciate the league for what it is. The world is different from 40 years ago, and the CFL need to find out how to connect with sports fans in Canada and globally so that they can see the league as another source of quality sports viewing on a par with anything else. If that can be done the sky is the limit.

[AngeloV]

I think most of us on this forum are real fans of the CFL. I don't think any of us wouldn't want to go back to seeing full stadiums. And I don't think it is impossible for it to happen. There needs to be a mindset change in the media that cover sports in Canada to give the CFL the attention it deserves and fans of all ages need to be able to appreciate the league for what it is. The world is different from 40 years ago, and the CFL need to find out how to connect with sports fans in Canada and globally so that they can see the league as another source of quality sports viewing on a par with anything else. If that can be done the sky is the limit.

I don't think the media has as much to do with it as some here think. The fact of the matter is that when players in this league make 5% on average of what NFL players make, some people will not give it the attention it deserves, period. There are too many people that believe that if it's not the best there is, we don't care. IMO, it's more of a society thing than a media thing.

It's the same reason CIS sport, and AHL hockey really struggle up here.

[OV Argo]

I don't think the media has as much to do with it as some here think. The fact of the matter is that when players in this league make 5% on average of what NFL players make, some people will not give it the attention it deserves, period. There are too many people that believe that if it's not the best there is, we don't care. IMO, it's more of a society thing than a media thing.

It's the same reason CIS sport, and AHL hockey really struggle up here.

Disagree somewhat - media coverage has lots to do with large sports followings.

US college ball sport - like NCAA football (the big teams and conferences) - is HUGE to many Americans - yet the players are unpaid, and the average talent level is nowhere close to the talent level of NFL OR CFL football; they are clearly not "the best there is" as football players, but have plenty of fans - tradition and media support/adulation. The CFL has that history/tradition as a sport and 10x the average football talent level, but they lost much of that media support and hype in their own country - to be replaced by derision, mocking and negative coverage or, flat-out ignorance or zero covearage. Too many people do not grasp the significance & importance of this factor on CFL popularity and fan support - it is HUGE - IMO.

[AngeloV]

Disagree somewhat - media coverage has lots to do with large sports followings.

US college ball sport - like NCAA football (the big teams and conferences) - is HUGE to many Americans - yet the players are unpaid, and the average talent level is nowhere close to the talent level of NFL OR CFL football; they are clearly not "the best there is" as football players, but have plenty of fans - tradition and media support/adulation. The CFL has that history/tradition as a sport and 10x the average football talent level, but they lost much of that media support and hype in their own country - to be replaced by derision, mocking and negative coverage or, flat-out ignorance or zero covearage. Too many people do not grasp the significance & importance of this factor on CFL popularity and fan support - it is HUGE - IMO.

The difference between NCAA and CFL, is that many NCAA schools have 10's of thousands of alumni that support the programs, especially football. It's quite similar, but on a smaller scale to national patriotism when it comes to sports. That simply doesn't exist either at the pro of University levels of sport in Canada.

I used to feel the same way about media, and really hate some of the hatchet jobs that some writers do. But for the most part, they have to cover what more people want. I'm sure newspapers can produce lots of letters to the editor which dictate what people want.

[Golden Fleece]

If people would stop comparing the CFL to the NFL it would be a lot easier to enjoy for its own sake. Unfortunately, we're not separated by an ocean from the U.S. A lot easier for Australian Rules Football, Japanese Baseball, and MLS to be successful when they don't compete side by side for air time and fan interest.

[AngeloV]

If people would stop comparing the CFL to the NFL it would be a lot easier to enjoy for its own sake. Unfortunately, we're not separated by an ocean from the U.S. A lot easier for Australian Rules Football, Japanese Baseball, and MLS to be successful when they don't compete side by side for air time and fan interest.

You're preaching top the choir here. I love both leagues. It's just that I love Canadian football more than any other sport.