September 27, 1985: Winnipeg Blue Bombers at Toronto Argonauts

[Will]

A rough year for the Argonauts due to Condredge Holloway's injury, but doggone it, Gump 66 has finally posted an Argos game that they win, and I'm sorry 30 years more than falls within the statute of limitations for spoilers.

- That Ricky Turner might not have been the most polished QB, but I've definitely seen worse QB's have to start a game. Danny Barrett also sees some time at QB for the Argos.

- I believe that this is Hall of Famer Rodney Harding's rookie season. It is also Lance Chomyc's rookie season.

[ArgoRavi]

I watched this game in its entirety and enjoyed it. A few observations:

Ricky Turner should have had a longer career in this league as I thought that he had potential. He was around for the entire 1984 season but did not play and was injured for the first half of '85. Obie obviously thought highly of him but let him go in training camp in '86 rather surprisingly. Turner pretty much disappeared at that point although a little research uncovered that he played a few games for the Indianapolis Colts in 1988 and even scored two one-yard TD runs. His best moments for the Argos were this game and the season finale in Regina when he came off the bench and helped the Argos overcome a sizable fourth quarter deficit to beat Saskatchewan.

I loved how CTV used their sideline reporters extensively during games unlike what TSN does today. Matt Scianitti and Farhan Lalji could become this generation's Bill Stephenson and Al McCann if only TSN would let them. Bill Stephenson was on top of every injury in this game. The cantankerous Pat Marsden seemed to become annoyed a time or two with Bill chiming in but it really did add to the telecast. Interesting to see a young Dan Matheson at halftime too. He was just recently laid off after decades at CTV.

Pat Marsden complained on at least a couple of occasions about the "small crowd" of less than 29k at this game. The Argos would have killed for that kind of crowd this past season.

There were still a lot of players left from the '83 Grey Cup team but the '85 team struggled a lot. Obviously, Condredge Holloway's injury was the single-biggest factor but it is still hard to believe that this team only finished at 6-10. I really liked the defensive line of Curry, Ballard, Dulin, Harding and Seale. I don't know how they didn't have more dominant games that season. OV must have been proud at that time of how Canadian Dan Rashovich filled in at linebacker after David Marshall was injured. Marshall was a pretty decent MLB from what I recall and played well in '86 for the Argos.

Obie said that RB Kevin Lowe was the single best signing the Argos had made up to that point of his tenure. Lowe was okay in this game but is barely remembered by Argos fans. Of course, Obie also compared Ricky Turner to Condredge Holloway when being interviewed by Bill Stephenson after this game.

Overall, this was an entertaining game during an otherwise bleak season for the Argos. The defence with four sacks and three interceptions led the way to victory on this September night.

[Will]

Turner might have been decent in this game, but this is a pretty ugly statline for the entire season:

Player Att Comp Comp % Yds Yds/Att TDs TD % Ints Int % Long Sacked Yds Lost Rating Ricky Turner 155 81 52.3 1023 6.6 4 2.6 9 5.8 53 57.5

The Argos running game was pretty bleak once Minter left too. Turner, in fact, led the team in rushing in 1985. This Kevin Lowe fella didn't last very long, but the Argos didn't solve their running woes until 1987 when Fenerty arrived.

[ArgoRavi]

Turner might have been decent in this game, but this is a pretty ugly statline for the entire season:

Player Att Comp Comp % Yds Yds/Att TDs TD % Ints Int % Long Sacked Yds Lost Rating Ricky Turner 155 81 52.3 1023 6.6 4 2.6 9 5.8 53 57.5

The Argos running game was pretty bleak once Minter left too. Turner, in fact, led the team in rushing in 1985. This Kevin Lowe fella didn't last very long, but the Argos didn't solve their running woes until 1987 when Fenerty arrived.

I know that his stats line doesn't look great but QBs' stats lines back in those days didn't look as good as QBs' of today. Tom Clements completed 60.5% of his passes and had a TD/INT ratio of 18/17. He was still considered to be one of the best in the league that season. QBs took more shots down field back then than they do now. It was interesting to listen to Turners' interviews with Bill Stephenson that night. We never heard the term "managing the game" back then applied to QBs but it sounded like Turner was instructed to pretty much do that on that night. He only threw for 160 yards or so in that game but 103 of those came on three long passes to Terry Greer. You're right about the Argos' anemic rushing stats that year. Turner led the Argos with 284 yards rushing that season.

One complaint I always had about Obie is that I felt that he gave up on players too soon. Walter Bender lined up as a running back for the Argos in '85 and was their second leading rusher but the Argos let him go and he returned to haunt them as a member of the Ticats a year later.

[AngeloV]

I loved how CTV used their sideline reporters extensively during games unlike what TSN does today. Matt Scianitti and Farhan Lalji could become this generation's Bill Stephenson and Al McCann if only TSN would let them.

Are we sure it's TSN's doing and not the leagues?


Personally, I never liked Bill Stephenson.

[Argo57]

I know that his stats line doesn't look great but QBs' stats lines back in those days didn't look as good as QBs' of today. Tom Clements completed 60.5% of his passes and had a TD/INT ratio of 18/17. He was still considered to be one of the best in the league that season. QBs took more shots down field back then than they do now. It was interesting to listen to Turners' interviews with Bill Stephenson that night. We never heard the term "managing the game" back then applied to QBs but it sounded like Turner was instructed to pretty much do that on that night. He only threw for 160 yards or so in that game but 103 of those came on three long passes to Terry Greer. You're right about the Argos' anemic rushing stats that year. Turner led the Argos with 284 yards rushing that season.

One complaint I always had about Obie is that I felt that he gave up on players too soon. Walter Bender lined up as a running back for the Argos in '85 and was their second leading rusher but the Argos let him go and he returned to haunt them as a member of the Ticats a year later.

Agree with your Obie observation, one O'Billovich personnel move that annoyed me was Scott McGhee playing WR for basically the whole 1982 season then getting the hook in favour of Emanuel Tolbert for the Grey Cup game (BTW my opinion didn't change when ET scored a TD in that championship game).

[AngeloV]

Agree with your Obie observation, one O'Billovich personnel move that annoyed me was Scott McGhee playing WR for basically the whole 1982 season then getting the hook in favour of Emanuel Tolbert for the Grey Cup game (BTW my opinion didn't change when ET scored a TD in that championship game).

I get what you are saying. I'll never forget a killer block McGhee threw in the Eastern Final the week before either. That's a guy willing to do whatever it takes, even if it doesn't show up on the stat sheet.

[gilthethrill]

One name I don't recall is Argo MLB #73 David Marshall...media guide states he played 22 regular season games and 2 playoff games for the Argos spanning get the 85-86 seasons.

[Argo57]

I get what you are saying. I'll never forget a killer block McGhee threw in the Eastern Final the week before either. That's a guy willing to do whatever it takes, even if it doesn't show up on the stat sheet.

Yes, he was a small but tough player, you wonder what personnel moves like that do to a teams morale.

[gilthethrill]

Yes, he was a small but tough player, you wonder what personnel moves like that do to a teams morale.

McGhee reminded me of another player who departed the Argos after being productive, a slotback named Dave Newman who was the Eastern ROY in 1980 or 1981 I believe. McGhee went on to have a solid career in the USFL catching many passes from Jim Kelly in Houstons Run and Shoot offence directed by Mouse Davis.

[AngeloV]

McGhee reminded me of another player who departed the Argos after being productive, a slotback named Dave Newman who was the Eastern ROY in 1980 or 1981 I believe. McGhee went on to have a solid career in the USFL catching many passes from Jim Kelly in Houstons Run and Shoot offence directed by Mouse Davis.

Newman was talented, but far from tough.

[gilthethrill]

Newman was talented, but far from tough.

True, Newman took a lot of sick days when employed by the US Postal Service IIRC.

[AngeloV]

true, newman took a lot of sick days when employed by the us postal service iirc.

rotfl!!!

[OV Argo]

One name I don't recall is Argo MLB #73 David Marshall...media guide states he played 22 regular season games and 2 playoff games for the Argos spanning get the 85-86 seasons.

I remember him - he was pretty solid IMO.

Argos have had some very talented, but short-lived Argo career MLBs over the years: Doug Tank Landry, Calvin Tiggle, and one of my all-time faves - Sam Cjiaanovich (sp. i bet) - who had a superb rookie year at MLB but then never improved or lasted long in the CFL.

[Argo57]

I remember him - he was pretty solid IMO.

Argos have had some very talented, but short-lived Argo career MLBs over the years: Doug Tank Landry, Calvin Tiggle, and one of my all-time faves - Sam Cjiaanovich (sp. i bet) - who had a superb rookie year at MLB but then never improved or lasted long in the CFL.

Yes, Chris Gaines, Darrell Nicholson are a couple of others.

[OV Argo]

Yes, Chris Gaines, Darrell Nicholson are a couple of others.

Yes! - William Mitchell too

[gilthethrill]

Yes! - William Mitchell too

I remember Mitchell coming to the CFL late in 81 as an NFL cut and playing very well for George Brancatos's Ottawa team, especially in the Grey Cup. He was a great player, especially for an undersized MLB IIRC.

[ArgoRavi]

I remember Mitchell coming to the CFL late in 81 as an NFL cut and playing very well for George Brancatos's Ottawa team, especially in the Grey Cup. He was a great player, especially for an undersized MLB IIRC.

Mitchell was an outside linebacker but I agree that he was a good one.

[Will]

Newman was talented, but far from tough.

David Newman had trouble grasping the run & shoot offense. I believe Paul alludes to this briefly in his book.

Argos have had some very talented, but short-lived Argo career MLBs over the years: Doug Tank Landry, Calvin Tiggle, and one of my all-time faves - Sam Cjiaanovich (sp. i bet) - who had a superb rookie year at MLB but then never improved or lasted long in the CFL.

One of the arguments I have tried to make is that the Argos have not helped themselves in this market over the years due to the fact that they have trouble maintaining a long period of success. Part of this might be due to the fact that they have had some trouble holding onto players in the long-term. This is not isolated to the MLB spot IMO.

[OV Argo]

Mitchell was an outside linebacker but I agree that he was a good one.

Mitchell played both OLB and some MLB in the CFL; watch the 83 GC game and you will see him in the middle some with him and Nicholson seeming to switch spots at times.