New regime

[Neely2005]

So a small percentage than ?

No idea as to how many but given how terrible our schedule has been the past few years it's certainly understandable.

Even this year's schedule probably isn't going to be the greatest due to the construction forcing TFC to start on the road.

[R.J]

Ive explained it more than once in this thread and others. Maybe you haven't read those; you certainly haven't offered specific arguments against any specific argument I have made. Just disagreeing with something doesnt make it wrong.

You're absolutely right, just disagreeing doesn't make it wrong nor right. It has been mentioned within this thread multiple times that other teams are selling season tickets without the schedule. Jeff Hunt has already stated on radio and via print news that the team is a head of where they were last season in terms of ticket sales. Gordon Norrie has also brought up ticket sales during his horsemen radio interview. At this time last year Skulsky discussed with The Province I believe, how ticket sales were going. Now while the Argonauts are in a bit of different situation than those, Winnipeg was selling season ticket deposits prior to the move to Investors Group Field and started selling ticket once the seating chart was made up. Personally I believe the seating chart is a much bigger factor in all of this and I think the Argonauts might hold a media conference to annonce the seating chart and all the plans for BMO + marketing, etcetera. Could be wrong obviously, but this is just my viewpoint and I have a real hard time understanding how the lack of schedule is holding anything up, considering the examples I have given.

No idea as to how many but given how terrible our schedule has been the past few years it's certainly understandable.

Even this year's schedule probably isn't going to be the greatest due to the construction forcing TFC to start on the road.

People/fans may be hesitant because of the schedule, but the team/management/ownership have no reason to be IMO. The Argonauts can sell deposits and season ticket without the schedule, they can't control whether people buy it or not.

[Neely2005]

You're absolutely right, just disagreeing doesn't make it wrong nor right. It has been mentioned within this thread multiple times that other teams are selling season tickets without the schedule. Jeff Hunt has already stated on radio and via print news that the team is a head of where they were last season in terms of ticket sales. Gordon Norrie has also brought up ticket sales during his horsemen radio interview. At this time last year Skulsky discussed with The Province I believe, how ticket sales were going. Now while the Argonauts are in a bit of different situation than those, Winnipeg was selling season ticket deposits prior to the move to Investors Group Field and started selling ticket once the seating chart was made up. Personally I believe the seating chart is a much bigger factor in all of this and I think the Argonauts might hold a media conference to annonce the seating chart and all the plans for BMO + marketing, etcetera. Could be wrong obviously, but this is just my viewpoint and I have a real hard time understanding how the lack of schedule is holding anything up, considering the examples I have given.

People/fans may be hesitant because of the schedule, but the team/management/ownership have no reason to be IMO. The Argonauts can sell deposits and season ticket without the schedule, they can't control whether people buy it or not.

They are selling season tickets without a schedule though.

[R.J]

They are selling season tickets without a schedule though.

The Argonauts are currently selling deposits not season tickets. My point was that they don't need the schedule to sell either, but they do need a seating chart to sell season tickets.

[Rocket]

For those that are complaining about a lack of marketing what exactly are you looking for? Let me guess you want to see TV Commercials. If so please be aware that TV commercials have always been the most expensive and least effective form of advertising. Even more so in today's world of PVR fast forwarding through commercials.

Not necessarily t.v commercials but some kind of advertisement around the city about the Argos going To bmo field. Why not have banners on all light post all over liberty village and around bmo field. Why not have some big advertisement there now so when people are going to the nba all star game activities at Ricoh colliseum in the next couple of weeks they all can see how the Argos are coming to bmo field next year and that another big party with the grey cup will be at the same spot at the end of the year you are attracting the same type of people for this stuff. Advertisement in all newspapers and you can't really look at well how effective can that be will you actually get someone to buy season tickets just because they saw an ad in the paper no but you know what if they keep seeing the Argos logo and name around it at least at the end of the day it is in there mind and who knows maybe they will go out and check a game out to see what it is about. I know they tried doing this before a few years ago in calling a news conference on pratically every player they signed to the team I don't even think or even remember seeing a news conference on the re-signing of Ricky Ray. When you call these news conference you bring a lot of media to these events and there you can also mention updates on bmo field,single game tickets,season tickets, flex packs etc. when they go on sale! How much! Updates on all this type of stuff.
Main thing is to keep the Argos name out everywhere you can possibly imagine!
Just coming out next month with a seating chart and prices and then go back to out of sight out of mind tell the season starts is not going to get the job done.

[Argo57]

Not necessarily t.v commercials but some kind of advertisement around the city about the Argos going To bmo field. Why not have banners on all light post all over liberty village and around bmo field. Why not have some big advertisement there now so when people are going to the nba all star game activities at Ricoh colliseum in the next couple of weeks they all can see how the Argos are coming to bmo field next year and that another big party with the grey cup will be at the same spot at the end of the year you are attracting the same type of people for this stuff. Advertisement in all newspapers and you can't really look at well how effective can that be will you actually get someone to buy season tickets just because they saw an ad in the paper no but you know what if they keep seeing the Argos logo and name around it at least at the end of the day it is in there mind and who knows maybe they will go out and check a game out to see what it is about. I know they tried doing this before a few years ago in calling a news conference on pratically every player they signed to the team I don't even think or even remember seeing a news conference on the re-signing of Ricky Ray. When you call these news conference you bring a lot of media to these events and there you can also mention updates on bmo field,single game tickets,season tickets, flex packs etc. when they go on sale! How much! Updates on all this type of stuff.
Main thing is to keep the Argos name out everywhere you can possibly imagine!
Just coming out next month with a seating chart and prices and then go back to out of sight out of mind tell the season starts is not going to get the job done.

Maybe Rudge wasn't so bad after all Rocket.

[Rocket]

Maybe Rudge wasn't so bad after all Rocket.

So far he has accomplished the same amount of what the new guys have managed to do so far. Let's hope tanebum can stop dreaming about the nfl in Toronto for a couple of days and put some focus into the Argos So this does not continue for much longer.

[paulwoods13]

It has been mentioned within this thread multiple times that other teams are selling season tickets without the schedule. Jeff Hunt has already stated on radio and via print news that the team is a head of where they were last season in terms of ticket sales. Gordon Norrie has also brought up ticket sales during his horsemen radio interview. At this time last year Skulsky discussed with The Province I believe, how ticket sales were going. Now while the Argonauts are in a bit of different situation than those, Winnipeg was selling season ticket deposits prior to the move to Investors Group Field and started selling ticket once the seating chart was made up. Personally I believe the seating chart is a much bigger factor in all of this and I think the Argonauts might hold a media conference to announce the seating chart and all the plans for BMO + marketing, etcetera. Could be wrong obviously, but this is just my viewpoint and I have a real hard time understanding how the lack of schedule is holding anything up, considering the examples I have given.

I will try this again:

Every team not named the Argonauts has a strong base of existing STHs, for one. And the same ownership and marketing personnel as they had last year. And an existing stadium that has a football-first configuration that the org is familiar with. And none of the other teams is facing the pressure to get it right that the Argos are.

And this:

Some people do other things as well in summer/fall, like get married, attend other weddings, go on vacation and so on. In a season with just 10 games this can make a huge difference on whether or not to buy season tickets. If you know you will miss three or four of the games, you might be more inclined to buy single tickets or a mini-pack (if available). So the schedule does matter to the sales campaign.

Would you care to address any of those points?

I agree seating chart is massively important, too -- something those other teams don't face. And there is another factor that differentiates the Argos from every other that is selling season's tickets: the Argos have to satisfy their (small band of) existing season ticket holders early in the sales process. Can you imagine the backlash here if they started selling tickets to the public without having given us a crack at seat selection?

People/fans may be hesitant because of the schedule, but the team/management/ownership have no reason to be IMO. The Argonauts can sell deposits and season ticket without the schedule, they can't control whether people buy it or not.

On the contrary, the org has many reasons to be hesitant -- they HAVE TO GET THIS RIGHT. Thy cannot chance screwing it up. And IMO expecting to sell a lot of tickets to people who would not know the dates of the games or the location of their seats -- both are important to prospective buyers -- would be a serious mistake. You are right, "they can't control whether people buy it or not." But they need to do everything they can to maximize the chance people will buy, and trying to sell something with so many unknowns would not do that.

["Issues"Mcgee]

There is something seriously wrong if I have the urge to tell some of you to chill.

[R.J]

I will try this again:

Every team not named the Argonauts has a strong base of existing STHs, for one. And the same ownership and marketing personnel as they had last year. And an existing stadium that has a football-first configuration that the org is familiar with. And none of the other teams is facing the pressure to get it right that the Argos are.

I'm not disputing any of this.

And this:

Some people do other things as well in summer/fall, like get married, attend other weddings, go on vacation and so on. In a season with just 10 games this can make a huge difference on whether or not to buy season tickets. If you know you will miss three or four of the games, you might be more inclined to buy single tickets or a mini-pack (if available). So the schedule does matter to the sales campaign.

Would you care to address any of those points?

This is where you lose me. Every CFL market has these issues, there is no schedule that will be able to appease everyone, it's literally impossible (and I don't use that word lightly). The Argonauts can start selling season ticket packages to anyone who has put in their deposits and call any individuals who haven't but were season tickets holders last season and so forth, without having a schedule ready. Hence why the seating chart is more important, no one will buy a season ticket without knowing where their seat will be. Schedule may matter to those on the outside and those who are currently unsure, but every market has those groups of individuals and are still able to sell tickets. I'm not completely disagreeing with the notion that the lack of schedule is holding things back, for all we know MLSE and TanenBELL are figuring out what other events they can slide in for 2016, and if that's the case I can understand it. Again just not following how you're using the schedule excuse.

I agree seating chart is massively important, too -- something those other teams don't face. And there is another factor that differentiates the Argos from every other that is selling season's tickets: the Argos have to satisfy their (small band of) existing season ticket holders early in the sales process. Can you imagine the backlash here if they started selling tickets to the public without having given us a crack at seat selection?

I'm not disputing this, but not sure what it has to do with your notion that the schedule is needed. I've never once said that the team should be selling season tickets to non season ticket and deposit holders first. They can sell to us first then open it up to the market.

On the contrary, the org has many reasons to be hesitant -- they HAVE TO GET THIS RIGHT. Thy cannot chance screwing it up. And IMO expecting to sell a lot of tickets to people who would not know the dates of the games or the location of their seats -- both are important to prospective buyers -- would be a serious mistake. You are right, "they can't control whether people buy it or not." But they need to do everything they can to maximize the chance people will buy, and trying to sell something with so many unknowns would not do that.

I'm not disagreeing with this at all. I'd rather see them get it right, from seating chart to pricing to marketing etc, than just come out with everything quickly just to get some attention, hence why I've been preaching patience. If we only get all the info by mid February, but there's a media conference where everything is explained, all current season ticket and deposit holders are called by seniority and given all the information needed to buy tickets, then the Argonauts bring out their marketing campaign and announce their plans for game days at BMO etc. I'd be happy, I'm more than willing to be a little patient if it's worth it. Yes, they should try to maximize the potential fan base, but you can't please everyone, even if they do make the most perfectly balanced schedule some still won't be able to make it, that's just how it goes. So again, they don't need a schedule to sell deposits or season tickets, it makes it an easier sell to those on the fence, which IMO is different than a "need".

[paulwoods13]

I agree that under ordinary circumstances and in a typical year, no team needs the schedule to sell season's tickets. But this is not ordinary circumstances or a typical year. We have a market where hard-core fans have been beaten down for years, casual fans have been ignored, the team's profile has been steadily reduced and a new stadium is coming, after renovations. Consequently the full package -- seating chart and schedule -- is needed to properly market this team, this year. I never meant to suggest (and don't believe I ever did suggest) that the only thing holding the org back from launching a sales campaign was the lack of schedule. But it is a big part of the reason they have not started selling, IMO. Obviously so is the seating chart and so is the need to cater to existing STHs as well as new customers who have made deposits. The challenge to get it right is huge, and it won't be easy. Hence it's a good thing, not a bad thing, that they appear to be moving carefully (and slowly).

[jerrym]

I agree that under ordinary circumstances and in a typical year, no team needs the schedule to sell season's tickets. But this is not ordinary circumstances or a typical year. We have a market where hard-core fans have been beaten down for years, casual fans have been ignored, the team's profile has been steadily reduced and a new stadium is coming, after renovations. Consequently the full package -- seating chart and schedule -- is needed to properly market this team, this year. I never meant to suggest (and don't believe I ever did suggest) that the only thing holding the org back from launching a sales campaign was the lack of schedule. But it is a big part of the reason they have not started selling, IMO. Obviously so is the seating chart and so is the need to cater to existing STHs as well as new customers who have made deposits. The challenge to get it right is huge, and it won't be easy. Hence it's a good thing, not a bad thing, that they appear to be moving carefully (and slowly).

I agree completely.

[R.J]

I agree that under ordinary circumstances and in a typical year, no team needs the schedule to sell season's tickets. But this is not ordinary circumstances or a typical year. We have a market where hard-core fans have been beaten down for years, casual fans have been ignored, the team's profile has been steadily reduced and a new stadium is coming, after renovations. Consequently the full package -- seating chart and schedule -- is needed to properly market this team, this year. I never meant to suggest (and don't believe I ever did suggest) that the only thing holding the org back from launching a sales campaign was the lack of schedule. But it is a big part of the reason they have not started selling, IMO. Obviously so is the seating chart and so is the need to cater to existing STHs as well as new customers who have made deposits. The challenge to get it right is huge, and it won't be easy. Hence it's a good thing, not a bad thing, that they appear to be moving carefully (and slowly).

Other CFL franchises have faced similar circumstances with a change in ownership, a stadium move or even the franchise being at a low point.
My interpretation of what you wrote was along the lines of "how can they sell tickets with no schedule to help them sell" ?
My apologies if I'm misinterpreting your thoughts.

[paulwoods13]

Other CFL franchises have faced similar circumstances with a change in ownership, a stadium move or even the franchise being at a low point.
My interpretation of what you wrote was along the lines of "how can they sell tickets with no schedule to help them sell" ?
My apologies if I'm misinterpreting your thoughts.

No need to apologize. I did write that at times (because I believe it matters, obviously), but also mentioned several other factors as well.

I don't think any franchise ever has faced all of this at the same time. Every other move into a new or refurbished stadium was either largely under team control and/or accompanied by a strong, well-established ownership and/or a decent base of paying subscribers. Every other ownership change was for teams that controlled their stadium situation and/or had solid fan bases. The only situation I can think of that is close to what we face -- dwindled fanbase, afterthought in the market, bad ownership (until recently) -- was Montreal in 1997. Had they not lucked into a better stadium, I believe that franchise likely would have died. We've finally found a better stadium of our own, but we can't take for granted that the market will respond, which IMO is why the new mgrs are being careful about rolling out their marketing strategy.

[1argoholic]

There is little debate when Rocket and myself comment on this new regime not getting off to a fast start with some sort...any sort of marketing right away. The first comments were all about the sky falling and the typical chill BS. There's no debate there. Zero that I ever say on here is taken seriously because obviously I know squat.It gets old.

We have been chilling for years as the franchise has hit a serious low. BMO is a step backwards in my books. Previous owners had set them up for this instead of growing the team and having good relations with Rogers. Everyone who's old enough to remember was thrilled to leave the EX for Skydome. Then somehow Skydome became a shitpit because the media said so. Then the Jays pulled the plug and sent what was left of the Argos into scramble mode. I'm still not sold on this new savior who's first interest was the NFL. The Argonauts have been run into the ground for years with little interest for most folks in the GTA and you need to develop more interest other then the fans they have now. You don't develop that by dragging your ass when you knew that you would own the team starting Jan 1st. No excuse is good enough. If you don't see double blue ads, commercials or however they get the word out these days they continue to be lost at the bottom of the barrel.

That's it for my whining, crying, sky is falling as 99% of you read it. I'm stating my views and believe me I don't lose sleep over anything. When you have no issues with stating your thoughts you're looked at as a whiner. F#$K!!!!!

[Argo57]

Argoholic you do bring up many valid points, I don't agree regarding the stadium, loved Exhibition stadium but BMO will have a roof so as long as you are dry it will be alright.
Although not overly concerned regarding the silence since the new ownership group took over I would have at least expected a press conference to re-introduce the ownership and management team and layout the vision for this franchise moving forward including a timeline for pricing and choosing season seats etc.
We have been living through decades of poor to no communication from the Argonauts so I would have expected SOME communication coming out of the gate but I guess not.

[R.J]

Kilmer Sports and Bell are not the previous ownership groups, yes they've inherited this mess, which is why some fans are getting anxious, but IMO it's unfair to compare and blame the new ownership, they just officially took over on January 1st. I would hope that 17 days isn't enough time to call them bad owners or complain that they're doing what other regimes did. 17 days! I think a little more patience is needed, but I am speaking upon deaf ears.

[paulwoods13]

There is little debate when Rocket and myself comment on this new regime not getting off to a fast start with some sort...any sort of marketing right away. The first comments were all about the sky falling and the typical chill BS. There's no debate there. Zero that I ever say on here is taken seriously because obviously I know squat.It gets old.

I don't know how you can say there has been little debate about your comments. This thread has had 76 replies. Some posters have agreed with some of your points, some have argued or taken opposing stances. Some have argued with (or agreed with) each other and not you. But that's precisely what an online debate is. It's mystifying that you are sounding as if you feel you're being ignored or stifled. Simply not true. I put Rocket on "ignore" months ago, but I am always interested in what you have to say even if it may contradict something you said previously. Happens to all of us.

[Rocket]

There is little debate when Rocket and myself comment on this new regime not getting off to a fast start with some sort...any sort of marketing right away. The first comments were all about the sky falling and the typical chill BS. There's no debate there. Zero that I ever say on here is taken seriously because obviously I know squat.It gets old.

We have been chilling for years as the franchise has hit a serious low. BMO is a step backwards in my books. Previous owners had set them up for this instead of growing the team and having good relations with Rogers. Everyone who's old enough to remember was thrilled to leave the EX for Skydome. Then somehow Skydome became a shitpit because the media said so. Then the Jays pulled the plug and sent what was left of the Argos into scramble mode. I'm still not sold on this new savior who's first interest was the NFL. The Argonauts have been run into the ground for years with little interest for most folks in the GTA and you need to develop more interest other then the fans they have now. You don't develop that by dragging your ass when you knew that you would own the team starting Jan 1st. No excuse is good enough. If you don't see double blue ads, commercials or however they get the word out these days they continue to be lost at the bottom of the barrel.

That's it for my whining, crying, sky is falling as 99% of you read it. I'm stating my views and believe me I don't lose sleep over anything. When you have no issues with stating your thoughts you're looked at as a whiner. F#$K!!!!!

some people on here just don't learn from there mistakes in life. When you have owners who are so misguided and don't put in time or effort with a franchise We as customers have to put our foot down and let them know we don't appreciate treating our franchise the way they do. I am not coming out here and saying we need owners that are going to spend millions upon millions of dollars to prop up a franchise but having a owner that can truly appreciate the team and fans isn't to much to ask for just look at a guy like bob young for a perfect example. as much as I want to see bell succeed owning the Argos I just get frustrated when you see a guy like Larry tanebum come out the next day of the sale of the Argos and talking how he wants to bring a nfl franchise to Toronto. It's like this guy doesn't have a clue what Argo fans want. I think there are some Argo fans that hate the nfl some like me who don't mind both leagues but at the end of the day I would say 98% of Argo fans don't want an nfl team in Toronto. But yet this idiot and yes I am calling him an idiot for coming out talking that way. This from the same guy who is worth billions that had to wait years to make the sale of the Argos for $3 million or whatever small change it was for him to buy the Argos. On top of that we saw no action last year to try to make a deal or this year to market the Argos.
at the end of the day I am sure they will have some success at bmo considering our last crappy owners could put in 13,000 at skydome and with ml$e influence with papering the house the crowds shouldn't look to bad at a smaller capacity bmo field.but the time is now for Argo fans to start demanding more from our owners so the Argos franchise can be sustained for years to come.

[Argo57]

Kilmer Sports and Bell are not the previous ownership groups, yes they've inherited this mess, which is why some fans are getting anxious, but IMO it's unfair to compare and blame the new ownership, they just officially took over on January 1st. I would hope that 17 days isn't enough time to call them bad owners or complain that they're doing what other regimes did. 17 days! I think a little more patience is needed, but I am speaking upon deaf ears.

Personally I'm not saying they are bad owners (only time will tell) but given this franchises history of poor communication and marketing you would have expected SOME communication to date.
I suspect we are days away from some announcements regarding ticket pricing and seating which will give fans something else to talk about.