Owens, Argos far apart in contract talks

[1argoholic]

Another guy I loved to watch last year.

[timlb01]

Owens was making around $175K the last 3 (maybe 4?) years. He's going to turn 34 in April. If he thinks he's going to make anything close to $175K, he's dreaming.

Owens is a great person and imo still has something left in the tank, but if I'm Barker, I offer $115K for one year. The likes of Geroy Simon who play wr until they are 40 are VERY few and VERY far between. Owens is on the downslope of his career, and probably has 2 years left before father time wins (as he always does).

I agree with you. I have mentioned it before but Owen's role needs to change just like Pinball's did under Don Matthews near the end of his career. Owen's can still be effective in the right role but he is more injury prone. I still stand behind you cannot have Ray, Durrie and Owen's who all are very injury prone now. Too much money in a tight cap sport. I hope he is back. Even more important I hope he plays out his entire career with the Argos.

Argo management may feel they have Owen's replacement already on the roster in the form of Dionte Spencer?

I 100% agree with this. Another reason we cannot fork out big money on Chad. Want him back. Want him to be an Argo for life and finish his career here. If someone wants to over pay, I guess we need to move on. I want Barker to pull out all the stops and make all the right moves as I want to win the Cup at home again!

[Will]

Argo management may feel they have Owen's replacement already on the roster in the form of Dionte Spencer?

I think that's exactly what Barker is thinking. Nevertheless, Spencer hasn't played a full season yet and having a veteran presence such as Owens can still be important.

[R.J]

Argo management may feel they have Owen's replacement already on the roster in the form of Dionte Spencer?

Spencer IMO showed enough to potentially be Owens replacement. Argos also brought in Gallon, who I think has a very similar playing style as well.

[gilthethrill]

Spencer IMO showed enough to potentially be Owens replacement. Argos also brought in Gallon, who I think has a very similar playing style as well.

We will have to wait to see if GALLON;s success at Michigan will SPILL onto the CFL.... no doubt he could make a SPLASH.

[Mookie Fan]

Perhaps they feel they has found his eventual replacement in Jeremy Gallon from Michigan. I hope it's his eventual but not just yet. I'd love to see Owens have a few more solid years as an Argo. If Barker was Wally, Owens would be gone by now.

That's a great point about Wally Buono. And I share your sentiment about Owens, and think Spencer and/or Gallon could potentially replace him at some point

If Milanovich is criticized for being too loyal to his veterans, much like Pinball Clemons was, Wally Buono is obviously the other extreme. He let many players go who had some football left in them, because he thought they had lost a step. RB Kelvin Anderson is one example of this.

Personally I think if Wally Buono were running the Argos, Ricky Ray, Chad Owens, Andre Durie and Ricky Foley would have all been gone from the team by now. Owens, Foley and Ray after 2015. Andre Durie may have even been released, along with Mike Bradwell, after 2014. It's a tough issue to handle. You don't want to let players go too early, but you don't want to pay big money simply due to past performance, expecting or assuming it will repeat itself.

The Argos hung on to some older players, and lost a relatively young player in Anthony Woodson, who may have been their best bet to replace Andre Durie's role and position on the team, playing some time at RB and SB. They also lost QB Mitchell Gale, at least partially for financial reasons, who could have helped us in 2016. Now we're in danger of losing other young players like Brendan Gillanders for salary reasons, yet some are still assuming several players can play like it's 2012. I love all of our veteran players, but even hall-of-famer Derrell "Mookie" Mitchell was let go at 33. Part of it may have been that he didn't get along with Damon Allen, but I'm not sure if those rumours were true or not. He played a few years after that, and pretty well, but the Argos won the Grey Cup the year he was let go--2004.

[paulwoods13]

The Argos hung on to some older players, and lost a relatively young player in Anthony Woodson, who may have been their best bet to replace Andre Durie's role and position on the team, playing some time at RB and SB. They also lost QB Mitchell Gale, at least partially for financial reasons, who could have helped us in 2016. Now we're in danger of losing other young players like Brendan Gillanders for salary reasons, yet some are still assuming several players can play like it's 2012.

I don't disagree with your thesis that we can't cling too much to the past, but I'm not sure these examples are al that valid. Woodson did little for the Ticats other than play STs, despite a plethora of injuries at RB. Gale was not picked up by anyone until Hamilton ran into two injuries at QB, and it will be a pretty big surprise if he's on their game roster this season, at least when Collaros is healthy. Every team in the league is in danger of losing young players -- there are between 100 and 200 free agents about to hit the market. I like both Gillanders and Dupuis (more than I like Woodson, actually) but if some team wants to overpay one of them, we'll find replacements. Overpaying unproven talent is probably dumber than overpaying proven talent, IMO.

[eiben35]

I would love for the Argos to extend Gabriel, Greenwood, T. Harris and Laing at the expense of Chad or Andre. I love the latter two players but you can't pay them great money at this stage of their careers.

[Qman]

I would love for the Argos to extend Gabriel, Greenwood, T. Harris and Laing at the expense of Chad or Andre. I love the latter two players but you can't pay them great money at this stage of their careers.

#Argos closing in on deals with Jermain Gabriel & Cory Greenwood. Jim Barker optimistic both will get done before Feb 9th. #CFL

— Farhan Lalji (@FarhanLaljiTSN) February 5, 2016

[OV Argo]

I don't disagree with your thesis that we can't cling too much to the past, but I'm not sure these examples are al that valid. Woodson did little for the Ticats other than play STs, despite a plethora of injuries at RB. Gale was not picked up by anyone until Hamilton ran into two injuries at QB, and it will be a pretty big surprise if he's on their game roster this season, at least when Collaros is healthy. Every team in the league is in danger of losing young players -- there are between 100 and 200 free agents about to hit the market. I like both Gillanders and Dupuis (more than I like Woodson, actually) but if some team wants to overpay one of them, we'll find replacements. Overpaying unproven talent is probably dumber than overpaying proven talent, IMO.

Woodson doing little for the Ticats is irrelevant basically in that he got next to no real playing time at tailback to show what he could do - Kenty sees RB as an import only position so mediocres like Madu and Holley got lots of opportunity instead. Greg Alexandre did "little" (more like nothing) for the Argos at DT but he played pretty well in an opportunity with the Esks. I prefer to evaluate talent based on having seeing them play rather than assuming coaching personnel decisions are mostly right or sound - they often are not - and to write off young talent because team x or y didn't give them a shot. I guess Chad Owens did nothing for the Als so some could of assumed he wasn't much - tons of such examples. Gillanders will have not much FA value IMO unless some team sees him as a ST ace, which he is good at, but he is doubtful to get more than CFL minimum wage, just like he is doubtful to get any real look at his natural position at tailback.

[Mookie Fan]

I don't disagree with your thesis that we can't cling too much to the past, but I'm not sure these examples are al that valid. Woodson did little for the Ticats other than play STs, despite a plethora of injuries at RB. Gale was not picked up by anyone until Hamilton ran into two injuries at QB, and it will be a pretty big surprise if he's on their game roster this season, at least when Collaros is healthy. Every team in the league is in danger of losing young players -- there are between 100 and 200 free agents about to hit the market. I like both Gillanders and Dupuis (more than I like Woodson, actually) but if some team wants to overpay one of them, we'll find replacements. Overpaying unproven talent is probably dumber than overpaying proven talent, IMO.

Anthony Woodson did little on offence for the Ticats because the coaching staff didn't have faith in him to give him a bigger role. He got a significant number of carries in one game with Hamilton last season. This was due to an injury to the starting international RB early in the game. Woodson played well. His longest carry was for 17 yards if I recall correctly. He was then rewarded with almost no playing time on offence the rest of the season, despite being healthy I believe. The Cats used 5 different international RBs last season, and started C.J. Gable in the playoffs, who had barely played all year. Call it GOB thinking if you like, but national RBs often lose their starting jobs after playing well. Import RBs are often given chance after chance to succeed, even after failing numerous times in games, and as you have pointed out, even entire seasons--such as in the case of Jeremiah Johnson.

Anthony Woodson played well for the Argos in the Durie-style RB/SB position when Andre Durie was injured at the end of 2014. He had the size and talent to play that position better than anyone on the roster. Anthony Coombs is very talented, but he isn't very big. Hopefully he stays healthy next year. Asking smaller backs like Coombs to play that position is almost unfair. Asking someone of Durie's age and injury history to play that role is crazy. For the sake of his health I hope he retires, as I care about his life after football. You can't teach size and durability, which often go together. We don't even really need someone to play that role. That isn't a necessity. We could use a more traditional, possibly larger SB for that position, among other possibilities.

Gale was not picked up by anyone because there are few openings for QBs in a small league. He is easily more talented than QBs like Matthews and Masoli on Hamilton's roster. It wasn't that long ago that many fans thought Mitchell Gale was more talented than Zach Collaros and Trevor Harris. Some still feel Gale has more potential. Gale played better than all of the other Argonaut QBs in the 2015 pre-season, and was rewarded with no playing time all year and losing his job. If Milanovich hadn't signed Adrian Mcpherson to do the short-yardage job that Gale did very well the previous year, then Gale would have been around late in the year to help when Harris faltered. Gale at 6'2 240 is very thick for a CFL QB and is 20 pounds heavier than McPherson, and the same height. Gale has a strong arm and is WAY more mobile than the other Argo QBs. I agree he'll have trouble getting playing time in Hamilton, and if I were the Argos, I would try to re-acquire him from Hamilton whether Trevor Harris re-signs or not. We have the stable ownership now, so money is no excuse.

As for Gillanders and Dupuis, they know our offence and continuity is important. That's also one reason why we should re-acquire Mitchell Gale. All teams pay more for national players, so I wouldn't call it overpaying. We were well under the salary cap last season and could easily shed some older veterans and bring both of those two players back. I also disagree that players like Woodson, Gillanders, Dupuis and Gale are unproven. They've proven their value in the role that they have been employed in. All players could be considered unproven, until they are given a big role. Then of course there are people saying we should stick with Ricky Ray because he's a proven commodity. As if playing at a high level is something permanent.

[gilthethrill]

#Argos closing in on deals with Jermain Gabriel & Cory Greenwood. Jim Barker optimistic both will get done before Feb 9th. #CFL

— Farhan Lalji (@FarhanLaljiTSN) February 5, 2016

That would be huge if they both return.

[R.J]

http://3downnation.com/2016/02/06/15282/

“As important as it is for a player to be able to make a guy miss a tackle or to be able to tackle or to be able to run the ball – a player’s ability to be able to stay healthy is part of the body of work that goes into making the decision on a players’ value,” Argos general manager Jim Barker says.

“There’s no doubt age wears on all players. It’s rare you see people who are returners-slash-receivers that play into their late 30’s. Time slows us down.”

The big Argo dilemma: what to do with Chad Owens?
Posted on February 6, 2016 by Justin Dunk // 0 Comments

With CFL free agency imminent, the Toronto Argonauts are faced with a decision that could have significant implications for both their football team and business: what to do with Chad Owens?

The “Flyin’ Hawaiian” could hit the market Tuesday, February 9, at noon eastern time and negotiations on a new deal that would keep him in Toronto do not appear to be going well. Losing Owens, the team’s most recognizable player, could further damage a team desperate for fan support as it makes the move to BMO Field this season.

“It’s tough. Would I rather not be in this situation? Yeah. I think a lot of people would rather have had a contract done and have a purpose while training knowing where you’re going to be,” Owens says. “I never thought I would be in this situation to be quite honest.”

Owens will turn 34 on April 3 and has played six seasons in the CFL, the last five the Argos. While his career numbers are Hall-of-Fame worthy – including a 2012 season that saw him set a league record for all-purpose yards and earn the CFL’s Most Outstanding Player award – his production declined last season and he missed five games due to injury.

“As important as it is for a player to be able to make a guy miss a tackle or to be able to tackle or to be able to run the ball – a player’s ability to be able to stay healthy is part of the body of work that goes into making the decision on a players’ value,” Argos general manager Jim Barker says.

“There’s no doubt age wears on all players. It’s rare you see people who are returners-slash-receivers that play into their late 30’s. Time slows us down.”

That’s a red flag for Toronto’s GM, who at the same time recognizes that Owens has made a significant contribution to a franchise that has struggled for relevance in a crowded Toronto entertainment scene.

“When Chad came in 2010 this franchise was floundering – it won seven games in the previous two years – and he gave the franchise a face,” Barker says.

“This organization owes Chad Owens a lot for what he did. But unfortunately the way things work moving forward in this business, if you pay for the past it ends up costing you in the future. So we have to be very prudent in the way we approach this. At the time when Chad was at the top he got paid that way.”

Owens was among the top paid non-quarterbacks in the CFL the last several seasons, earning in the neighbourhood of $200,000 annually. But with a cap of $5.1 million and a some key players still unsigned – including quarterback Trevor Harris – the Argos are unwilling to continue paying Owens a top-tier salary.

“Now it’s a difficult situation because we cannot afford to pay him what he’s made [in the past],” Barker says.

“That is the essence of what general managers do: place hard dollar values on players’ worth – trying to project the future.”

[Will]

Chad Owens has removed anything Argos related from his Twitter account. Say it ain't so. Hope this doesn't mean they're moving on.

— DoubleBlueBlog (@DoubleBlueBlog) February 9, 2016

[AngeloV]

Not a good sign. He is the current Mr. Argo.

[paulwoods13]

He's either accepting a much lower salary or moving on, maybe to Hamilton. Hate to see him go for many reasons, but I'd rather we spend on guys with more upside at this point.

[Will]

He's either accepting a much lower salary or moving on, maybe to Hamilton. Hate to see him go for many reasons, but I'd rather we spend on guys with more upside at this point.

If someone is still willing to pay him top dollar then he is gone. If this is indeed the end then I hope Diontae Spencer can do over an 18-game season what he flashed in his time last year.

[jerrym]

Argo management may feel they have Owen's replacement already on the roster in the form of Dionte Spencer?

I agree. Dionte showed in limited action last year that he has the potential to be an outstanding returner and a top receiver, as well as also generate Owen type excitement. However, I thought the Argos might keep Owen to help build their fan base with a superstar name although his skills, particularly his speed are starting to slip.

[Wobbler]

Chad Owens has not yet received an offer from #Argos. He told me "just waiting for 12 o'clock." #CFLFA

— Mike Hogan (@tsnmikehogan) February 9, 2016

[R.J]

Maybe Barker like some here realize that we already have Owens' replacement x2 ?