Say what? Argos Ticket Sales Currently at 15K

[Godfather]

Now that we're outside we'd rather have weekday games in the Summer than weekend games in October and November.

Who are these people that want weekday games in the summer? The 8K that showed up last week? The argos need a weekend schedule that their fans and prospective fans can actually attend or they are doomed. Having games played each day of the week make it difficult to sell seasons tickets as people are too busy getting to/form work, picking up their kids, traffic etc.

[Neely2005]

Who are these people that want weekday games in the summer? The 8K that showed up last week? The argos need a weekend schedule that their fans and prospective fans can actually attend or they are doomed. Having games played each day of the week make it difficult to sell seasons tickets as people are too busy getting to/form work, picking up their kids, traffic etc.

12k.

We as in myself and my family with our 4 season tickets. I was only giving my personal opinion.

I still think that the Indy construction was a bigger factor than the weekday game.

[PullTogether73]

Who are these people that want weekday games in the summer? The 8K that showed up last week? The argos need a weekend schedule that their fans and prospective fans can actually attend or they are doomed. Having games played each day of the week make it difficult to sell seasons tickets as people are too busy getting to/form work, picking up their kids, traffic etc.

I will ask the same question that I asked in another thread.
How do Leafs/Blue Jays/Raptors fans make it to those teams' games during the week?
Why does football have to be only on weekends while the other major sports can all play weeknight games and still sellout or have big crowds?

[Argos1983]

^^ I think it is a combination of those things, I agree that Friday-Sunday is easier for most to attend who live/work outside the downtown core and the tailgating concept works better in my opinion on those days....as for why Monday-Thursday works better for those other teams, the Rogers Centre and ACC are much more accessible than BMO is in my opinion - being directly on the subway line (or a short walk from there) matters, that last bit between Union and BMO is a pain to traverse by car or by public transit with or without an Indy involved.....TFC weeknight games are also notoriously poorly attended in relation to the weekend games....I myself will rarely try to get to the Ex grounds on a weeknight but would go to the ACC and/or Rogers Centre on a weeknight as it is a much easier trip in and out of the stadium area - I think I am not alone in that regard - that extra time and ease of accessibility matters to those who are travelling to BMO after work and especially if they are working the next morning, I would bet that the majority of attendees of ACC or RC events are taking the subway to Union and then walking to the venue, and once you add another 30 minutes or more in getting on a streetcar and /or sitting in traffic (or catching a cab) and trying to do so afterwards it does not help the cause.....just my 2 cents on the topic.....

[Argo57]

The root of the issue is the Argonaut fan base simply isn't large enough, 7000 season tickets tell the story.
Toronto sports fans all know about the Argos but don't care enough to go, pretty simple.
Lack of weekend games, too many weekend games, construction etc etc come off as excuses and rationalization for small crowds.
The new ownership have misread the market and IMO underestimated the damage done to the Argo brand since the mid 1980's.
They hyped the move to BMO (with justification) and the new uniforms (basically the same as before), tailgating (seems successful), the season ticket experience (can't figure what they meant by that one) and the Grey Cup (sky high prices).
I wonder what is being said internally within the organization, the cold reality surely is a major wake up call.

[Neely2005]

I will ask the same question that I asked in another thread.
How do Leafs/Blue Jays/Raptors fans make it to those teams' games during the week?
Why does football have to be only on weekends while the other major sports can all play weeknight games and still sellout or have big crowds?

I can definitely see it making things difficult for the pre game tailgate but I think that the main issue is that most of our fanbase is in the 905. I don't think that's the case with the other teams.

[Argo57]

I can definitely see it making things difficult for the pre game tailgate but I think that the main issue is that most of our fanbase is in the 905. I don't think that's the case with the other teams.

How do you know this?
I would suspect much of the other teams fanbase lives in the 905 as well.

[Argos1983]

I think it is a combination of all of the things we are discussing here (schedule/access for 905ers/more entertainment alternatives than the 80s etc.) and that's the real issue - the problem is multi-faceted and requires a multi-faceted solution......yes, we need a better schedule, yes we need to engage younger fans who didn't grow up on the Argos for various reasons (TV blackouts vs a 1000 channel universe, rise in Jays popularity (Argos dominated the summer sports landscape until the Jays arrived and got better in 85 onwards), simple neglect of ownership, etc.) --- Pricing of low end ST was ok in my opinion (a $199 ST is an easy price point for most) but nothing done for families to take their kids to the game cheaply is short-sighted, no tie-in with a supermarket (like the old days) or other company (7/11) for such arrangement was also overlooked --- I went to many games because of 99 cent tickets from A&P and Dominion --- even if you made them $9.99 each or 4 for $40 in a family section it is an idea......no discount on GC tickets for STH was also short-sighted....freeze prices for two years if you buy ST for 2016/2017 and you get a GC ticket for $50 off --- try something?! Most people care about value on the money spent and they simply are not offereing it for STH ---I will be shocked if that 7000 is not going down next year.....that's the really scary part.....

[Neely2005]

How do you know this?
I would suspect much of the other teams fanbase lives in the 905 as well.

Our fanbase is older, I don't think that many of us are living in Condos.

[Gill The Thrill]

I'm pretty sure that it's 7000+ Full Season Tickets sold.

Perhaps they've sold 3-5k flex paks or more. Are the flex packs for pre-purchased games or vouchers that are redeemable for any game. Either way, the sales and marketing for the Argos could just look at the games which have sold the most to gauge which days would be be best for home dates.

Now that we're outside we'd rather have weekday games in the Summer than weekend games in October and November.

Maybe you're a cottage guy and I can't blame you, but I think Friday and Saturday nights would be best for summer games, maybe Thursdays and Fridays. They did get almost 25k for the opener and that was a Thursday. Late season games on Friday nights or Saturday afternoons. There will be one Sunday afternoon game during the NFL season, I'm curious as to how attendance will be. Let's face it, a true 20k avg may be a tough sell for this year...but they should try to have 17-18k a game. The atmosphere still better at BMO than Rogers Centre.

Let's not discount the effect that the product on the field has. For decades this team has laid some big eggs in front of large home crowds, and they did it again in that home opening loss. The team was terrible...started a little better against Ottawa but really faded badly, and faded is being polite. They were atrocious in the 4th quarter. After getting up 13-0 in the 2nd quarter, they were outscored 30-7 for the rest of the game.

[1argoholic]

Playing crap football never hurt them at the CNE. But then they were the summer sport.

[paulwoods13]

That's an over-simplification. Attendance peaked in 1978-79 when the stadium had been expanded and the Jays were crappy. Then it started declining, with a sharp drop in 1984 after we won first Grey Cup in 31 years. It was as if the pressure valve had finally been released. Then Jays got competitive. Argo attendance kept declining for the remainder of their time at the Ex, through a bad season (1985), mediocre (1986) and good (1987 and '88).

[Gill The Thrill]

Playing crap football never hurt them at the CNE. But then they were the summer sport.

Not true, if you look at Game to game attendance...attendance always heavily dropped off late in the season when sports fans realized the team was not going to make the playoffs by Labour Day. The last 2 home games from 1978-1981 were all poorly attended compared to games earlier in the season because of the product on the field. Still great compared to today, but that's not saying much. I saw a CNE late season game vs Hamilton only have 25,000 as the announced crowd and that was in that period where the team averaged 35-40k.

That's an over-simplification. Attendance peaked in 1978-79 when the stadium had been expanded and the Jays were crappy. Then it started declining, with a sharp drop in 1984 after we won first Grey Cup in 31 years. It was as if the pressure valve had finally been released. Then Jays got competitive. Argo attendance kept declining for the remainder of their time at the Ex, through a bad season (1985), mediocre (1986) and good (1987 and '88).

1976 and1977 saw Argo attendance at it's peak by sheer numbers and that was still a fanbase that was cultivated by Leo Cahill's first go around from 1967-1972. Attendance started to fall, albeit not shockingly in 1978 despite the Argos having brought Leo back in 1977. Those late season games in 1978 including the one vs BC posted on Youtube after Leo was fired was surely nowhere near close to the 46k that were at his final game vs Montreal. It's hard to say the on-field product didn't affect the attendance as that offense was pretty bad. It could be argued that the fans who jumped ship after Leo's firing didn't just jump from the Argo ship, but stopped following the CFL altogether. The financial disparity in player salaries between the NFL and CFL was starting to widen in the late 70's. Sure there were big coups by CFL teams in luring high draft picks to still come to Canada, such as Montreal enticing Tom Cousineau to come to the CFL, but that was becoming less and less a scenario.

[AngeloV]

I think it is a combination of all of the things we are discussing here (schedule/access for 905ers/more entertainment alternatives than the 80s etc.) and that's the real issue - the problem is multi-faceted and requires a multi-faceted solution......yes, we need a better schedule, yes we need to engage younger fans who didn't grow up on the Argos for various reasons (TV blackouts vs a 1000 channel universe, rise in Jays popularity (Argos dominated the summer sports landscape until the Jays arrived and got better in 85 onwards), simple neglect of ownership, etc.) --- Pricing of low end ST was ok in my opinion (a $199 ST is an easy price point for most) but nothing done for families to take their kids to the game cheaply is short-sighted, no tie-in with a supermarket (like the old days) or other company (7/11) for such arrangement was also overlooked --- I went to many games because of 99 cent tickets from A&P and Dominion --- even if you made them $9.99 each or 4 for $40 in a family section it is an idea......no discount on GC tickets for STH was also short-sighted....freeze prices for two years if you buy ST for 2016/2017 and you get a GC ticket for $50 off --- try something?! Most people care about value on the money spent and they simply are not offereing it for STH ---I will be shocked if that 7000 is not going down next year.....that's the really scary part.....

Very well stated. I agree with all of this.

[Argos1983]

I think its very difficult to compare things from pre 83-85 Argos to now (or even pre internet age to now) ---- the Jays arriving and becoming relevant in 83+ mattered, it was an alternative summer sports entertainment option (that didn't exist before) and was the "new shiny" toy of the town, and realistically, we live in a different era in terms of entertainment options and a 1000 channel universe with internet options (and multi-tasking capability while viewing - can we have decent wifi in the stadium please?! - people want it, and yes I know they should be watching the game, but they also want to instagram and tweet how awesome a time they are having too!!) this means that unless you give people a reason to go in this city --- a very good product and what I like to call the "buzz" or "wow" factor they won't go (look at the Argos attendance in 1991 with a good team and the "wow" factor of Hollywood north, vs 1996-1997 with great teams and no "wow" factor). If the Jays win 78 games in 2017 (or completely crap the bed in August and September and finish well out of the race this year), believe me they will go back to drawing poorly the year after (buzz will be gone, it won't be seen as the "hot" thing and attendance will fall sharply).... we are a bandwagon kind of town, it's sad but true -- the only anomaly is our pathetic hockey team (and sadly I'm a Leafs fan) who can get away with a crappy product and still sell tickets.....the Raptors are the new shiny toy for now, they are playing well, and are the sport of the younger generation (I am close to 50 and I am not in the majority of the demo following basketball at my age in this town), if they stink in a year or two, demand for those seats will diminish too --- their regular season TV numbers are abysmal compared to the Jays, Leafs, Argos etc. - it is still a niche sport in terms of interest (outside of the playoffs when there is a "buzz" of Jurassic Park etc.) despite what the media portrays ----

The point is it is way harder in 2016 to capture people's attention for a very long time in this day and age --- most of us grew up and became fans when the CFL was a "major" sport in this town and remember the glory days of the "pre Blue Jays" Argo era and are holding on to our love of CFL football from that time --- if I was born in the 90s or later, why would the Argos be relevant to me? - I have lots of other stuff I could be doing to entertain me, none of my friends are talking about them so why would I care ---- the Argos have to make themselves relevant again, a tailgate is a nice start, but you need to appeal to a younger demographic and find ways to get them into the stadium at any cost and then make it as exciting as heck in there to make them want to return again and again, every game should have a theme night, give away fricking bobbleheads every game (you see the lineups for the Jays games on those days!!), buy an adult ticket and take a kid (under 14) for free in the family section, on field autograph sessions after every home game (or attempt a field goal), and yes, if a stupid Pokemon go thing will bring people to the stadium (even for one game), isn't it better than not bringing them in at all? I bet it would generate buzz, and clicks of the internet and a curiosity factor? ---- Rome wasn't built in a day and a lot of us are long time CFL supporters who love the product and want it to succeed because of it's great history, but frankly that means little to those under 30, and you can't force people to enjoy your CFL only your way - sometimes you have to try things that might offend the purists among us, in order to get people in the building and learn to love the game for themselves.....A lot of us went to our first Jays game because of some stupid giveaway or $2 dominion seats in the grandstands, and we thought it was "really fun", so we wanted to go back, and we did, and eventually we took our head out of the cotton candy and hot dog and started to watch the game and learn about it for ourselves.....the Argos need to start thinking this way, and soon, as their last holdouts from the glory years of CFL are getting older and older.....including me.....

[1argoholic]

Some great points and when trying to compare Toronto with the rest of the league is very different. Just look at pro sports teams in the other CFL cities. Toronto has much more to compete with and even with it's population many of the people have come from non football countries. Soccer is their sport or they know of baseball, hockey and basketball.

The Argos along with help from the CFL have to pullout all the stops and try everything. Ok so try Pokémon a Go Go!

It doesn't help that the Argos lost those fans who would have brought their kids etc..etc. Hopefully everyone involved is fully committed to getting this ship floating straight again.

[Neely2005]

Perhaps they've sold 3-5k flex paks or more. Are the flex packs for pre-purchased games or vouchers that are redeemable for any game. Either way, the sales and marketing for the Argos could just look at the games which have sold the most to gauge which days would be be best for home dates.

Maybe you're a cottage guy and I can't blame you, but I think Friday and Saturday nights would be best for summer games, maybe Thursdays and Fridays. They did get almost 25k for the opener and that was a Thursday. Late season games on Friday nights or Saturday afternoons. There will be one Sunday afternoon game during the NFL season, I'm curious as to how attendance will be. Let's face it, a true 20k avg may be a tough sell for this year...but they should try to have 17-18k a game. The atmosphere still better at BMO than Rogers Centre.

Let's not discount the effect that the product on the field has. For decades this team has laid some big eggs in front of large home crowds, and they did it again in that home opening loss. The team was terrible...started a little better against Ottawa but really faded badly, and faded is being polite. They were atrocious in the 4th quarter. After getting up 13-0 in the 2nd quarter, they were outscored 30-7 for the rest of the game.

No we don't have a cottage. We just prefer to be sitting outside in the nice summer weather instead of the cool / cold autumn weather. My wife has a very difficult time with cool / cold weather.