Shame on CTV/TSN

[argotom]

I couldn't believe it.
Both the CTV mother network and TSN are simulcasting the Masters this weekend.
Yesterday it was from 2-7 pm and today from 1-7pm.
All this over the top coverage for a US sport, that for me is not a sport.
Golf is leisure, it's like watching darts, poker and bowling.
These are not athletes, but I digress.
My beef is CTV providing this ridiculous amount of coverage when TSN is simulcasting the same.
The two will be lucky to combine 1 million viewers.
While the Grey Cup is constantly drawing 4+ million viewership and can't get on the main network.
There is absolutely no doubt the powers to be undersold the property yet again during the latest contract.
On top of which commissioner after commissioner fails to get the playoffs and GC game on the main network.
Again no doubt in my mind how the ad executives and various heads of programming and or sport are purposely keeping the league down a notch below the wannabe US sports.

[Mookie Fan]

I couldn't believe it.
Both the CTV mother network and TSN are simulcasting the Masters this weekend.
Yesterday it was from 2-7 pm and today from 1-7pm.
All this over the top coverage for a US sport, that for me is not a sport.
Golf is leisure, it's like watching darts, poker and bowling.
These are not athletes, but I digress.
My beef is CTV providing this ridiculous amount of coverage when TSN is simulcasting the same.
The two will be lucky to combine 1 million viewers.
While the Grey Cup is constantly drawing 4+ million viewership and can't get on the main network.
There is absolutely no doubt the powers to be undersold the property yet again during the latest contract.
On top of which commissioner after commissioner fails to get the playoffs and GC game on the main network.
Again no doubt in my mind how the ad executives and various heads of programming and or sport are purposely keeping the league down a notch below the wannabe US sports.

It is an interesting issue. The argument given for keeping CFL games on only TSN and not CTV (from the broadcaster's point-of-view) seemed to be about ratings combined between the two channels, advertising revenue and compelling people to subscribe to pay TV packages to get TSN. This is what makes simulcasting the Masters a bit strange. Regardless of a lack of programming, why have the golf tournament on both channels? Why not just CTV, if the desire existed to have a bigger audience? The big difference is that the Masters is a short event, held only once a year. The CFL season is much longer, although the Grey Cup is a one-evening annual event.

CTV has had a huge amount of American programming for a very long time. I realize the Masters is a huge deal in the golf world, but dedicating 5 hours one day and 6 the next is very, very substantial coverage--even for CTV. I mean, even the Academy Awards is only about 4 hours. Of course, the Juno Awards, a Canadian music awards show, gets very little time on CTV. It gets only 2 hours, rather than the 3 or 4 hours it should get. Many major awards are awarded before the main show, and therefore many prominent Canadian recording artists (new and more established) don't get their special moment in front of Canadian viewers. All because there simply isn't nearly enough time to fit more awards into a two-hour show. The Junos used to be on CBC many years ago. I can't remember how long the main awards show was back then. My point being, Bell-owned CTV marginalizes Canadian music and other TV, not just sports like CFL football.

Personally I think it's time for a TV channel dedicated completely to Canadian sports. It would feature CFL, various CIS sports, and maybe even some high school sports, as well as other sports competitions. That could include of course different levels of hockey, lacrosse, soccer, basketball and so on. It could also feature international competitions that feature Canadian athletes (team and individual sports) located in Canada and around the world. This channel should be free over-the-air and on the internet. It should also be mandatory (included for free) in every company's pay TV packages in Canada--cable, satellite, fibe TV and so on. This would be so its success isn't dependent on viewership and ad-revenue for survival and it doesn't disappear like SUN TV. I'm not holding my breath, but we should already have this kind of channel, or potentially (even better) a group of channels like this. With digital signals over-the-air, several channels can exist over the same frequency, and obviously networks like TSN and Sportsnet now have multiple channels.

[Ron]

The solution is to have the Grey Cup between 1-7pm leaving prime time free for CTV to do other things. Since the CFL wants to be in prime time ... then the only thing that can be done is to shut up about it.

[ArgoZ]

Not a fair comparison. As Ron mentioned prime time is a big factor and we have debated the CTV Grey Cup numerous times. As far as the coverage of what many consider golf's most pretentious event, Bell has the rights and what else are they going to put on, on a slow Sunday afternoon that will get better ratings? I do think TSN could have showed some alternate programming though. It's possible that it is more cost efficient to broadcast the Masters on the main TSN feed, rather than some other sport that will get insignificant ratings.

Points on this forum can be made without trying to degrade other sports or franchises. I am quite sick of seeing the trend where a poster feels the need to take a shot at another avenue not named the Argonauts.

[AngeloV]

Why are you getting so hot over this? The Grey Cup (as is every CFL game) is available to anyone that wants to watch. I don't know if you have noticed this, but TV coverage has changed over the years. Specialty channels are the thing now. To me, this is a complaint just for the sake of complaining. Can we just please stop whining about it?

[ArgoGabe22]

I noticed TSN has a section on their site dedicated to video game tournaments and what not. Now that is not a sport.

[PullTogether73]

Why are you getting so hot over this? The Grey Cup (as is every CFL game) is available to anyone that wants to watch. I don't know if you have noticed this, but TV coverage has changed over the years. Specialty channels are the thing now. To me, this is a complaint just for the sake of complaining. Can we just please stop whining about it?

Yes, every CFL game is available to anyone that wants to watch.
As was the Masters as it was being broadcast on TSN.
So why broadcast it on CTV at the same time as TSN?

I believe that argotom has a valid criticism, whether or not it was CFL-centred.
Should ABC and ESPN/Fox and Fox Sports/NBC and NBCSN, etc. show the same sporting event at the same time?
Weird decision on the part of CTV imo.

[R.J]

I noticed TSN has a section on their site dedicated to video game tournaments and what not. Now that is not a sport.

Don't even get me started on the TSN Esports thing........................

[OV Argo]

Yes, every CFL game is available to anyone that wants to watch.
As was the Masters as it was being broadcast on TSN.
So why broadcast it on CTV at the same time as TSN?

I believe that argotom has a valid criticism, whether or not it was CFL-centred.
Should ABC and ESPN/Fox and Fox Sports/NBC and NBCSN, etc. show the same sporting event at the same time?
Weird decision on the part of CTV imo.

The Masters is a very prestigious American & international sporting event. CTV head honcho types will fawn all over anything like that - "world class" don't ya know. The CFL is just a quaint little minor Canadian league to those wannabe types = not good enough for their main network - TSN will have to do.

Is what it is - and nothing wrong with argotom pointing it out; anybody on a CFL fan site not expecting some CFL fans to point out the obvious favortism shown towards American or other sports by some of our media and a corresponding lack of respect that a historic great CANADIAN sport receives - I don't get. Complain away CFL fans !

[Mookie Fan]

The Masters is a very prestigious American & international sporting event. CTV head honcho types will fawn all over anything like that - "world class" don't ya know. The CFL is just a quaint little minor Canadian league to those wannabe types = not good enough for their main network - TSN will have to do.

Is what it is - and nothing wrong with argotom pointing it out; anybody on a CFL fan site not expecting some CFL fans to point out the obvious favortism shown towards American or other sports by some of our media and a corresponding lack of respect that a historic great CANADIAN sport receives - I don't get. Complain away CFL fans !

Good points. There is definitely a lack of respect for Canadian content on CTV. Many people don't have pay tv, and many who did are giving up paying for TV, or are using services like Netflix instead. Also many people who pay for TV packages don't get all of the TSN channels. The CFL is missing out on a lot of viewers who would otherwise have interest in the CFL product. Doesn't "CTV" stand for Canadian television? It is somewhat disturbing that someone can watch at least 2 NFL games on CTV over-the-air every Sunday and most of the NFL playoffs and Superbowl, but no CFL games. Many people growing up now will likely never or rarely see the CFL. They may never become fans, as many people fall in love with the CFL game as kids.

The NFL is smart. They make their game accessible and have many games on over-the-air television. This is increasingly important as it is harder and harder to get attention today in an environment saturated with entertainment options and other distractions. Casual fans are especially hard to capture.

It has been pointed out on this (or other?) CFL forum(s) that there once was a federal law that mandated that the Grey Cup game had to be broadcast over-the-air on both CTV and CBC, as not everyone in Canada got either CTV or CBC. Some only got one or the other. Some got both. There was a belief that every Canadian should be able to see the game if they wanted to. That was a long time ago. Now the Grey Cup game is on TSN, and TSN shows NFL scores on the bottom of the screen during the broadcast.

[AngeloV]

I still don't get the outrage about this.

[argotom]

I still don't get the outrage about this.

So you don't think there is a US wannabe factor by the heads/executives/ad agencies in all of media to include TV here in the center of Canada?
If not, wow the old line about land for sale in the everglades, yes in the US.
On top of which I failed to mention how the golf was also on the CBS feed, channel 4 in Buffalo.
So 3 stations covering a tournament that the World Championship US media(here we go again) has determined to be the best in golf(??), again for me not a real sporting event.
Need I remind you during the playoffs and GC, CTV still showed then entire afternoon of NFL football.
Why not move the NFL to the TSN feed and show the playoffs and GC exclusively on the CTV network which as we all know has a larger audience.

[Golden Fleece]

I get that TSN and other cable sports networks need their exclusive properties to attract a percentage of their subscribers. I still don't get why they don't broadcast the Grey Cup on CTV (even in prime time) when they could simultaneously market TSN and deliver millions of more viewers to their advertisers (adding $$$ to their bottom line). What may never happen again, but which would probably provide the CFL the best balance of exposure and rights fees would be to have a single game of the week broadcast on CBC or CTV to maintain contact with the casual fan who has cut the cord or will never subscribe to TSN.

[argotom]

Not a fair comparison. As Ron mentioned prime time is a big factor and we have debated the CTV Grey Cup numerous times. As far as the coverage of what many consider golf's most pretentious event, Bell has the rights and what else are they going to put on, on a slow Sunday afternoon that will get better ratings? I do think TSN could have showed some alternate programming though. It's possible that it is more cost efficient to broadcast the Masters on the main TSN feed, rather than some other sport that will get insignificant ratings.

Points on this forum can be made without trying to degrade other sports or franchises. I am quite sick of seeing the trend where a poster feels the need to take a shot at another avenue not named the Argonauts.

I am not sure how to take that?
As far as I am concerned, I will take several shots at anything that is US sports and that some wannabe clown/executive has determined in this country is worthy above our disappearing institution(s).
The CFL is truly our sport, part of the very same Canadiana that is not defended enough.
And it's not like it has to be artificially propped up as it does well on TV. Just a level playing field.
In fact, an argument can also be made it should not be a level playing field as since when should US sports garner priority?
However, I wonder also how the vast majority here in the city of Toronto may not consider itself part of this country?
How very sad.
Why aren't more people including yourself doing its share to keep our traditions alive for the generations ahead?

[argonaut11xx]

Say what you like, i very much enjoyed the coverage of the Masters, by TSN, watched most of it from Thursday onward.

That said i did switch to CBS for the final round on Sunday.

Its NOT CFL season,and quite frankly it was 4 days of an enjoyable TV experience. IMO much better than watching baseball.

(BTW,most of the TSN coverage was either based on a specific hole,or following a certain group)

[paulwoods13]

I get that TSN and other cable sports networks need their exclusive properties to attract a percentage of their subscribers. I still don't get why they don't broadcast the Grey Cup on CTV (even in prime time) when they could simultaneously market TSN and deliver millions of more viewers to their advertisers (adding $$$ to their bottom line). What may never happen again, but which would probably provide the CFL the best balance of exposure and rights fees would be to have a single game of the week broadcast on CBC or CTV to maintain contact with the casual fan who has cut the cord or will never subscribe to TSN.

Here's why they don't simulcast the grey cup on ctv: at the same time it is on tsn, ctv is getting upwards of a million viewers watching its simulcast of programming on US networks. It charges advertisers a premium because anyone who wants to watch those shows on cable has to see Cdn commercials on ctv. So it gets say 4M viewers on tsn and say 1M viewers (who would watch the amazing race no matter what channel it was on, and would NOT watch football) on ctv. More viewers, and more ad revenue, than if the game was being simulcast. Pretty simple business decision for ctv.

[argotom]

Here's why they don't simulcast the grey cup on ctv: at the same time it is on tsn, ctv is getting upwards of a million viewers watching its simulcast of programming on US networks. It charges advertisers a premium because anyone who wants to watch those shows on cable has to see Cdn commercials on ctv. So it gets say 4M viewers on tsn and say 1M viewers (who would watch the amazing race no matter what channel it was on, and would NOT watch football) on ctv. More viewers, and more ad revenue, than if the game was being simulcast. Pretty simple business decision for ctv.

I don't think so.
If you say CTV garnered more viewers I agree and the ad revenue went in their pot. Forget for a a second they own TSN.
Logically then the ad revenue for TSN is worthless as they lost because of the simulcast as they did not split the pie.

[R.J]

I don't think so.
If you say CTV garnered more viewers I agree and the ad revenue went in their pot. Forget for a a second they own TSN.
Logically then the ad revenue for TSN is worthless as they lost because of the simulcast as they did not split the pie.

???
Grey Cup starts at 6:30 pm ET, not to mention the whole day of programming. CTV airs NFL Football from 1-7pm and then their American scripted programming. TSN2 airs NFL Sunday Night Football at 8:30 pm not including Pre game. BELL makes more money with this setup, then if they were to go with Grey Cup Sunday on CTV and TSN or even CTV by itself, because what would you air on TSN ? All day NFL ? it wouldn't generate as high ratings as the CTV games do and you also lose out on scripted programming.

I want to see the CFL on OTA tv just as much as anybody, but I also realize that BELL is in the business of making money, and there's a reason why they do Grey Cup weekend on TSN and fill programming elsewhere.

[argotom]

???
Grey Cup starts at 6:30 pm ET, not to mention the whole day of programming. CTV airs NFL Football from 1-7pm and then their American scripted programming. TSN2 airs NFL Sunday Night Football at 8:30 pm not including Pre game. BELL makes more money with this setup, then if they were to go with Grey Cup Sunday on CTV and TSN or even CTV by itself, because what would you air on TSN ? All day NFL ? it wouldn't generate as high ratings as the CTV games do and you also lose out on scripted programming.

I want to see the CFL on OTA tv just as much as anybody, but I also realize that BELL is in the business of making money, and there's a reason why they do Grey Cup weekend on TSN and fill programming elsewhere.

No way.
You can't justify CTV for not showing the GC and the playoffs.
More viewership and ultimately exposure = more revenue, not the other way around by going with TSN.
You want to draw the biggest viewership number for the GC.
Otherwise why then doesn't TSN show the Super Bowl instead of CTV?

[R.J]

No way.
You can't justify CTV for not showing the GC and the playoffs.
More viewership and ultimately exposure = more revenue, not the other way around by going with TSN.
You want to draw the biggest viewership number for the GC.
Otherwise why then doesn't TSN show the Super Bowl instead of CTV?

You're still not getting it, and TBH it's been explained to you so many times - I give up.