Week 1: Hamilton TigerCats @ Toronto Argonauts, June 23, 2016 @ BMO FIELD Game Thread

[Double Dare]

It was frustrating to watch but I'm still surprised that Ray only had 10 incompletions. And only one interception that took a deflection. All in all, tough to criticize Ray at the moment. I would think the OC, coaching should take more of the heat than Ray is getting.

Yes. HC.

[paulwoods13]

It was frustrating to watch but I'm still surprised that Ray only had 10 incompletions. And only one interception that took a deflection. All in all, tough to criticize Ray at the moment. I would think the OC, coaching should take more of the heat than Ray is getting.

Why just the OC? What about the DC whose troops surrendered 15 (!) straight completions on two consecutive long TD drives after we pulled within five points and had all the momentum?

[1971GreyCup]

I think it's Barker job to has to make the case to stay. Pretty similar situation Toronto and Ottawa. HOF QBs nearing the end of their careers. High turnover in many key positions each year results in a transition period for players to get adjusted to the CFL game and OC and DC styles. I have heard a lot of best athletes playing. But Harris and Greg Jones were huge losses in the offseason. I think when we find top athletes we have to have an intermediate plan too.

Maybe the rejuvenated Argos will solve this deficiency.

[paulwoods13]

Burris is five years older than Ray. Ott reportedly offered Harris starter's money ($400k) in 2017. Makes sense when starting QB will be 42, less so when starting QB will be 37. Even Ricky agreed to an incentive-based deal. I was all in favour of finding a way to sign both, but I would not have given Harris what Ott gave him.

I hated to lose Jones but we won't know how much of a loss he was until we see how our MLBs perform. Really liked what I saw of McFadden in the preseason, didn't notice him as much in Game 1 before he got hurt.

[Neely2005]

Ray has played 1 game.
I will wait until he's had a couple bad starts in a row to start worrying.
he somehow ended up with 282 yards even though he looked awful (and a 102 qb rating)

And he certainly didn't get a lot of help or time either.

[1argoholic]

I don't think Ray looked as horrible as everyone seems to think. Sure he's going to be rusty but he didn't get a ton of help either. I don't think Ray is our problem.

[R.J]

It was frustrating to watch but I'm still surprised that Ray only had 10 incompletions. And only one interception that took a deflection. All in all, tough to criticize Ray at the moment. I would think the OC, coaching should take more of the heat than Ray is getting.

Both the coaches and players deserve the blame IMO. On defence I'd lean more towards the players due to Stubler's system which allows players to think and adjust themselves to a degree. On offense I'd put most of the blame on the coaches, but Captain checkdown deserves a lot of blame as well. We're usually slow out of the gate and only seem to wake up in the 2nd half, so to me that's coaching. I don't want to rehash my thoughts on certain someones anymore, so I'll just leave it at that.

[Argo57]

Both the coaches and players deserve the blame IMO. On defence I'd lean more towards the players due to Stubler's system which allows players to think and adjust themselves to a degree. On offense I'd put most of the blame on the coaches, but Captain checkdown deserves a lot of blame as well. We're usually slow out of the gate and only seem to wake up in the 2nd half, so to me that's coaching. I don't want to rehash my thoughts on certain someones anymore, so I'll just leave it at that.

Rehash away, your observations match what many of us saw, no running game, piss poor O-Line play and a rusty Ricky.
I'm willing to buy the rusty Ricky theory for another couple of weeks but if things don't change then our concerns are legit.
Hamilton seem to have our offence figured out which is troublesome, has Milanovich made any changes to the O scheme since 2012??
D will take some time, didn't like the complete fold job after the Argonauts got close.
Lack of pass rush looked like the same old same old, the Rider game should be interesting.

[R.J]

Rehash away, your observations match what many of us saw, no running game, piss poor O-Line play and a rusty Ricky.
I'm willing to buy the rusty Ricky theory for another couple of weeks but if things don't change then our concerns are legit.
Hamilton seem to have our offence figured out which is troublesome, has Milanovich made any changes to the O scheme since 2012??
D will take some time, didn't like the complete fold job after the Argonauts got close.
Lack of pass rush looked like the same old same old, the Rider game should be interesting.

Saw a video where Milanovich essentially admitted that he called the plays and will continue to do so this season it seems. Very troublesome IMO and that's putting it lightly. I do agree that Milanovich's system looks to be the same since the beginning, and when I look at what Collaros and Harris are doing in other places; it shows how conservative Milanovich is. I still remember Milanovich admitting that he was trying to control Zach in the pocket more after his first start, which would lead to slow starts, then when the team was down after the first half Collaros was unleashed (4 come from behind victories). Seems to me it was the same with Harris as he had to lead this team from behind multiple times as well. That should tell people something about Milanovich.................. but shhh, we mustn't speak too loudly, because he's the bestest Head Coach in the CFL right now.


Not even close IMO.

[Argo57]

Saw a video where Milanovich essentially admitted that he called the plays and will continue to do so this season it seems. Very troublesome IMO and that's putting it lightly. I do agree that Milanovich's system looks to be the same since the beginning, and when I look at what Collaros and Harris are doing in other places; it shows how conservative Milanovich is. I still remember Milanovich admitting that he was trying to control Zach in the pocket more after his first start, which would lead to slow starts, then when the team was down after the first half Collaros was unleashed (4 come from behind victories). Seems to me it was the same with Harris as he had to lead this team from behind multiple times as well. That should tell people something about Milanovich.................. but shhh, we mustn't speak too loudly, because he's the bestest Head Coach in the CFL right now.


Not even close IMO.

If that is the case you have to wonder why they have an OC on their staff??

[R.J]

If that is the case you have to wonder why they have an OC on their staff??

I'm not sure, maybe Brady is filling the same role that Milanovich did with the Als.

In retrospect I probably should have watched this a few times as I originally heard Milanovich say "I need to do a better job of calling plays and getting him off to a good start", but now I'm not so sure. Have a watch/listen.
http://www.tsn.ca/cfl/video/argonaut...istakes~900784

[KCargosfan]

Why just the OC? What about the DC whose troops surrendered 15 (!) straight completions on two consecutive long TD drives after we pulled within five points and had all the momentum?

This needs to be given more attention. Stubler did a very poor job in week 1. We made Masoli look like Calvillo.

[Ron]

This needs to be given more attention. Stubler did a very poor job in week 1. We made Masoli look like Calvillo.

I'd say the defensive players did a lousy job in doing what Stubler wanted them to do.

[ArgoGabe22]

but shhh, we mustn't speak too loudly, because he's the bestest Head Coach in the CFL right now.


Not even close IMO.

Not in the league but probably the bestest head coach we had in awhile and the bestest available for us to have at this time. I'm not sure who else there is available to us. It would have to had been a promotion from within. Jones, O'Shea, Steinhauer, Mass? But it would make no sense to fire Milanovich at the time to promote Chris Jones.

I heard Dave Ritchie has an itch to come back and coach.

[1argoholic]

I really hope we're not into a gong show here. Milanovich doesn't change things up and keeps running the same boring white bread plays that go nowhere.

[AngeloV]

I'd say the defensive players did a lousy job in doing what Stubler wanted them to do.

I disagree. I would have liked to see a lot more blitzing against a QB that has not a lot of game time experience. I think it may have resulted in some turnovers. But then, it is only 1 game. I'm sure Stubler still has to figure out what he can and can't be doing with his personnel.

I wonder what the tone will be if Harris has a stinker against Montreal tomorrow.

[paulwoods13]

Can we all pls remember that we have played ONE out of 18 games? In a league where preseason is very short and arguably too short to get players properly prepared? (And yes, I acknowledge that did not seem to be a problem for Hamilton last week -- but it arguably was for virtually every other team in at least one of three facets.) One game in -- one game where our defence was bad at the start of the game, and terrible when it mattered most -- and some are already complaining about our terrible offensive system. Man, tough crowd.

[1971GreyCup]

I don't think frustration is unwarranted. I argue that Milanovich/Barker's teams arguably peaked during the 2013 season and have not won a playoff game since 2012. Takeaway the 2012 Grey Cup and I wonder if Milanovich and Barker would be held in such high esteem. Haven't we talked about the critical situation here in Toronto about attracting the next generation of fans. I am expecting a lot more this season. Just want the Argos on-field product = investment and results in all the off-field events. That is Milanovich and Barkers job. Ottawa and Hamilton will be tough teams this year and the Als D always play great ball.

[AngeloV]

I don't think frustration is unwarranted. I argue that Milanovich/Barker's teams arguably peaked during the 2013 season and have not won a playoff game since 2012. Takeaway the 2012 Grey Cup and I wonder if Milanovich and Barker would be held in such high esteem. Haven't we talked about the critical situation here in Toronto about attracting the next generation of fans. I am expecting a lot more this season. Just want the Argos on-field product = investment and results in all the off-field events. That is Milanovich and Barkers job. Ottawa and Hamilton will be tough teams this year and the Als D always play great ball.

Ottawa and Hamilton were tough teams last year too, and in the end, we were all within a couple of points of each other, sweeping Ottawa and being swept by Hamilton. I understand the anxiety, but let's at least wait 4 of 5 games before concluding that this team and it's coaching and management stinks.

We were after all a dropped ball and lousy FG kicking away from beating Hamilton in the Eastern Semi last year. Don't know how that is the coaches fault.

[1argoholic]

Milanovich is basically a 500 coach. We want to see an improvement not the constant struggle. With big player turn over each year we see struggle. Tomorrow should tell us plenty about how we bounce back.