Barker and Milanovich need to be fired!!!!!!!!!!

[Argo]

One more point for this string...Argos have not won a playoff game since 2012.

Significant point.

[Reggiemac]

I see they just announced another interesting qb signing. Brady Bolles. Watch the youtube hilites on him. A gunslinger with size and record setter in div 2 football. A big fish in a little pond. Now if we could just build an offensive scheme to use the talents we have. Between Fajardo and him we got some good looking youngsters coming up. We need to get agressive on the O side. Sells tickets.

[Neely2005]

I see they just announced another interesting qb signing. Brady Bolles. Watch the youtube hilites on him. A gunslinger with size and record setter in div 2 football. A big fish in a little pond. Now if we could just build an offensive scheme to use the talents we have. Between Fajardo and him we got some good looking youngsters coming up. We need to get agressive on the O side. Sells tickets.

Kilgore was pretty aggressive.

[Argo57]

Kilgore was pretty aggressive.

Unfortunately the other teams DB's knew where Kilgore was throwing the ball more than he'd did.

[R.J]

Kilgore was pretty aggressive.

Ricky Ray's stats in 6 games are - 139 comp, 185 att, 75.1 completion %, 1448 yards, 7.8 YPA, 241.3 YPG, 10 TDs and 2 INTS.
Zach Collaros in 3 games - 81 COMP, 123 ATT, 65.9 Completion %, 1151 yards, 9.4 YPA, 383.7 YPG, 10 TDS and 1 INT.

Being aggressive doesn't mean you have to throw stupid picks like Kilgore was. You also don't have to coach and play timidly like Milanovich and Ray do.

[ArgoRavi]

An interesting interview with Milanovich here where, at one point, he tries to describe what his offence is about: http://www.tsn.ca/radio/hamilton-115...-done-1.560229

[Ron]

You also don't have to coach and play timidly like Milanovich and Ray do.

Ray does not play timid at all. The first drive last game shows that. But if his targets are not open ... what do you expect him to do?

[R.J]

Ray does not play timid at all. The first drive last game shows that. But if his targets are not open ... what do you expect him to do?

Did you watch the first drive Ron ? Both throws to Elliott were into coverage (Yes, even the TD). Ray missed quite a few open receivers during the game, checked down when he should have looked to the other side of the field.

TBH, I'm getting really tired of hearing that this is the WR's fault. Every year since 2012, I've continually heard these BS issues come up around here. How many receivers does this team have to go through before people admit/figure out what the actual problems are ?

[Argo]

Did you watch the first drive Ron ? Both throws to Elliott were into coverage (Yes, even the TD). Ray missed quite a few open receivers during the game, checked down when he should have looked to the other side of the field.

TBH, I'm getting really tired of hearing that this is the WR's fault. Every year since 2012, I've continually heard these BS issues come up around here. How many receivers does this team have to go through before people admit/figure out what the actual problems are ?

While I do not doubt your contentions, I wasn't at the game and haven't seen it (on YouTube) yet. When I do watch it, hopefully the camera work will allow at least some confirmation or refutation of your various points, i.e., Ray missed / should have looked / receiver(s) open / covered.

[R.J]

While I do not doubt your contentions, I wasn't at the game and haven't seen it (on YouTube) yet. When I do watch it, hopefully the camera work will allow at least some confirmation or refutation of your various points, i.e., Ray missed / should have looked / receiver(s) open / covered.

It's much easier when you see it live (on TV the camera angles don't always give you the full field of play). Every home game this season, I don't even pay attention to the QB, I watch the receivers and where they are/where they're going, just to see who's open and who's not - if Ray can take a shot when a receiver has the inside track etc.

Again, the funny thing is: both of Ray's throws to Elliott on the first drive were into coverage, but Ray was willing to take his shot. Seems to me Ray plays well the first quarter, and then things just drop off. Either Ray becomes more timid as the game goes on, and/or the opposing team adjusts to what the Argonauts do in the first quarter and Milanovich "sticks to the game plan".

[Neely2005]

Unfortunately the other teams DB's knew where Kilgore was throwing the ball more than he'd did.

He needs to learn to check down to avoid throwing an interception.

[Neely2005]

Ray does not play timid at all. The first drive last game shows that. But if his targets are not open ... what do you expect him to do?

Just do what Kilgore did and throw it anyway.

[AngeloV]

Did you watch the first drive Ron ? Both throws to Elliott were into coverage

I disagree with you entirely on the above. He threw the ball to a spot where Elliott would have the best chance of catching the ball on both of those plays. He "threw him open" as they say.

I don't think Ray is timid at all. I do now however think that he is nearing the end, and this will be his last season (unless he wants to back up). I believe he still has the ability to get hot and carry a team for a short period, but I don't think he is the guy over an 18 game schedule to do it week in and week out anymore...I know, a huge contrast from my stance all along.

I disagree with anyone that says he doesn't have the arm strength to throw deep anymore, however. His issue with pushing the ball down field more often IMO is that his footwork is slower than it used to be. It takes him longer to set up, and thus his release is not as quick as it used to be, so when a pass rush gets close to him, he can't follow through the way he would like to.

Having said all that, what really bugs me the most is the lack of respect Ray gets from some on here. Probably the reason I went so hard defending him, and will continue to do so.

[R.J]

I disagree with you entirely on the above. He threw the ball to a spot where Elliott would have the best chance of catching the ball on both of those plays. He "threw him open" as they say.

I don't think Ray is timid at all. I do now however think that he is nearing the end, and this will be his last season (unless he wants to back up). I believe he still has the ability to get hot and carry a team for a short period, but I don't think he is the guy over an 18 game schedule to do it week in and week out anymore...I know, a huge contrast from my stance all along.

I disagree with anyone that says he doesn't have the arm strength to throw deep anymore, however. His issue with pushing the ball down field more often IMO is that his footwork is slower than it used to be. It takes him longer to set up, and thus his release is not as quick as it used to be, so when a pass rush gets close to him, he can't follow through the way he would like to.

Having said all that, what really bugs me the most is the lack of respect Ray gets from some on here. Probably the reason I went so hard defending him, and will continue to do so.

Well at least you're now admitting that Ray is nearing the end. You disagree with me above, and yet you say that "Ray threw him open", which means that Elliott had coverage on him and Ray took his shot, trusting his receiver to get open, no ? Why is it that Ray doesn't consistently do this during a game ?

I don't disagree about the arm strength thing. I don't think Ray is throwing the way he used too, but his shoulder looks fine, so I doubt it's that. In saying that, there's clearly something off, and Ray being slow, along his footwork make sense.

You seem to disagree with the validity of posts as of late, but am I wrong or do you only disagree because I'm being "negative" towards Milanovich and Ray ?
It seems to me that others are changing their views about this team, coach and QB, and yet somehow some just continue to think that it's just me who thinks this way.

[AngeloV]

Well at least you're now admitting that Ray is nearing the end. You disagree with me above, and yet you say that "Ray threw him open", which means that Elliott had coverage on him and Ray took his shot, trusting his receiver to get open, no ? Why is it that Ray doesn't consistently do this during a game ?

I don't disagree about the arm strength thing. I don't think Ray is throwing the way he used too, but his shoulder looks fine, so I doubt it's that. In saying that, there's clearly something off, and Ray being slow, along his footwork make sense.

You seem to disagree with the validity of posts as of late, but am I wrong or do you only disagree because I'm being "negative" towards Milanovich and Ray ?
It seems to me that others are changing their views about this team, coach and QB, and yet somehow some just continue to think that it's just me who thinks this way.

I haven't lost my opinion of Milanovich at all. The entire concept that he doesn't like to push the ball downfield is BS, IMO. We saw Kilgore try and push it down field a lot, but at this point isn't reading the defences properly, but as a 2nd year QB in the league, that is not unexpected. Ray is obviously making the right reads, but as I mentioned before when he does check down, especially to Whitaker, the plays aren't being made to move the sticks. I think Whitaker needs to be replaced with a more explosively quick guy that can extend drives when they catch the ball in the flat or on a crossing route.

I think Milanovich's only down side is that he is overly loyal to some players.

Having said all that, I would love to see Ray stay on as a back up next year. I still think he can make a difference to a team there, and the fact that he accepted the type of contract that he did, may even suggest that he would accept that role.

[Argo57]

I disagree with you entirely on the above. He threw the ball to a spot where Elliott would have the best chance of catching the ball on both of those plays. He "threw him open" as they say.

I don't think Ray is timid at all. I do now however think that he is nearing the end, and this will be his last season (unless he wants to back up). I believe he still has the ability to get hot and carry a team for a short period, but I don't think he is the guy over an 18 game schedule to do it week in and week out anymore...I know, a huge contrast from my stance all along.

I disagree with anyone that says he doesn't have the arm strength to throw deep anymore, however. His issue with pushing the ball down field more often IMO is that his footwork is slower than it used to be. It takes him longer to set up, and thus his release is not as quick as it used to be, so when a pass rush gets close to him, he can't follow through the way he would like to.

Having said all that, what really bugs me the most is the lack of respect Ray gets from some on here. Probably the reason I went so hard defending him, and will continue to do so.

I think he at the end of his career as well, he has done a lot of good things for the Argonauts since his arrival in 2012.
One thing I've always like about him is his humility, class act all the way!!

[R.J]

I haven't lost my opinion of Milanovich at all. The entire concept that he doesn't like to push the ball downfield is BS, IMO. We saw Kilgore try and push it down field a lot, but at this point isn't reading the defences properly, but as a 2nd year QB in the league, that is not unexpected. Ray is obviously making the right reads, but as I mentioned before when he does check down, especially to Whitaker, the plays aren't being made to move the sticks. I think Whitaker needs to be replaced with a more explosively quick guy that can extend drives when they catch the ball in the flat or on a crossing route.

I think Milanovich's only down side is that he is overly loyal to some players.

Having said all that, I would love to see Ray stay on as a back up next year. I still think he can make a difference to a team there, and the fact that he accepted the type of contract that he did, may even suggest that he would accept that role.

Agreed about making a change at running back. Also agree on Milanovich being too loyal to some players (I've mentioned it quite often), but I disagree that it's Milanovich's "only" downside.

IMO Ray would have to take a bit less money to stick around as back-up ($250k base is too high).

Weren't you just saying the other day that you wouldn't object to change if the Argonauts miss the playoffs ?

[AngeloV]

Weren't you just saying the other day that you wouldn't object to change if the Argonauts miss the playoffs ?

Yes, but what does that have to do with believing in Milanovich? I realize I may be the lone voice if that moment comes, so I would have to accept it.

[R.J]

If Milanovich is back with the Argonauts in any capacity next season: I sure as hell won't be. I can spend my hard earned dollars elsewhere.

[jerrym]

I think he at the end of his career as well, he has done a lot of good things for the Argonauts since his arrival in 2012.
One thing I've always like about him is his humility, class act all the way!!

I agree on both your points. With regard to his career, the repeated injuries may well shorten his career compared to some other older high-skill qbs both in terms of wear-and-tear affecting his skills and teams' willingness to carry a qb at a high salary who misses so many games.