Barker and Milanovich need to be fired!!!!!!!!!!

[1971GreyCup]

Once and for all can we get this straight -- both Collaros and Harris left as free agents. That is their right -- the same right every player has when his contract expires. They were not let go by Barker. They chose to leave. And in at least one of the two cases, that was after receiving a generous offer from Barker. So stop blaming him for their departures. Unless you think they should have been signed to 10-yr contracts before ever playing a game. They just did what tons of other guys (including our "own" Josh Bourke) have done.

I am not sure Barker or Milanovich's are totally blameless here. Negotiations are more than just about money. Harris has been here since 2012. Clearly, because Harris took less money to go to in Ottawa than to stay. Maybe Harris went to the RedBlack's because of their HC, OC and receivers. They look very good now and may be for the foreseeable future.

I make a living valuing assets. Present value = today's value plus the sum of all total future values. In Collaros situation, Ricky Ray then had more future value and I can see Barker's case.

In Harris's I am not so sure. Ricky Ray may have higher current value but little or no future value. I believe Ricky Ray was signed first and then Harris chose to go. It seems to me that Ricky may be done after this year or maybe next year at the latest. I think it's the GM's responsibility to find away to keep Harris. He didn't. While this has a big impact this year, the larger impact may be out in 2017 and beyond.

Eric Tillman's error in letting Ricky Ray go hurt them in 2012, but they have the same number of Grey Cups as Toronto and Mike Reilly looks like it won't be his last Grey Cup the way he is playing.

[Gill The Thrill]

Who even said this ?


That was me. So I've got to ask - Is Cory Greenwood not an elite linebacker ? Gabriel not an elite safety when healthy ?
We also have Miles, Waud, Bulcke, Bourke, Holmes, McEwen, Van Zeyl, Coombs, and Durie. Pretty good talent IMO and could all be starters on other teams.

I like Cory Greenwood a lot, but you've thrown a ton of Canadian O-lineman, that's the stereotype of where most coaches think Canadians can only play on offence.

I like Durie and Coombs also, but Milanovich uses them like their bit players who just relieve the internationals when they get tired. Ever notice also how the Argo losses at home are also connected with a lack of running game. They have a much more balanced attack on the road and coincidentally, or not imo, have both their wins on the road.

Barker better have a talk Scott and tell him that the fans want a victory and a balanced offence like they played with in Vancouver. I don't want to spend all season at BMO looking like I'm duck hunting when I watch Ricky Ray throw a predictable fade to the endzone getting intercepted like he did vs Hamilton and like he also did vs Ottawa but was by bailed a pass interference call by the opposite cornerback in the Redblacks secondary.

[Argo57]

I am not sure Barker or Milanovich's are totally blameless here. Negotiations are more than just about money. Harris has been here since 2012. Clearly, because Harris took less money to go to in Ottawa than to stay. Maybe Harris went to the RedBlack's because of their HC, OC and receivers. They look very good now and may be for the foreseeable future.

I make a living valuing assets. Present value = today's value plus the sum of all total future values. In Collaros situation, Ricky Ray then had more future value and I can see Barker's case.

In Harris's I am not so sure. Ricky Ray may have higher current value but little or no future value. I believe Ricky Ray was signed first and then Harris chose to go. It seems to me that Ricky may be done after this year or maybe next year at the latest. I think it's the GM's responsibility to find away to keep Harris. He didn't. While this has a big impact this year, the larger impact may be out in 2017 and beyond.

Eric Tillman's error in letting Ricky Ray go hurt them in 2012, but they have the same number of Grey Cups as Toronto and Mike Reilly looks like it won't be his last Grey Cup the way he is playing.

Well stated, sometimes people seem to forget this isn't the Ricky Ray of 2012.

[Neely2005]

I like Cory Greenwood a lot, but you've thrown a ton of Canadian O-lineman, that's the stereotype of where most coaches think Canadians can only play on offence.

I like Durie and Coombs also, but Milanovich uses them like their bit players who just relieve the internationals when they get tired. Ever notice also how the Argo losses at home are also connected with a lack of running game. They have a much more balanced attack on the road and coincidentally, or not imo, have both their wins on the road.

Barker better have a talk Scott and tell him that the fans want a victory and a balanced offence like they played with in Vancouver. I don't want to spend all season at BMO looking like I'm duck hunting when I watch Ricky Ray throw a predictable fade to the endzone getting intercepted like he did vs Hamilton and like he also did vs Ottawa but was by bailed a pass interference call by the opposite cornerback in the Redblacks secondary.

1 interception in 4 games and the ball was tipped. Is that really what you're complaining about?

[ArgoGabe22]

At least we didn't throw money at Drew Willy.

[Ron]

You know there is a possibility that Harris wasn't going to sign here regardless. Look at the trend. Harris rejects a good contract during the season. He doesn't sign right after the season claiming he'll test free agency. So the Argos went ahead and signed Ray because Harris wasn't going to sign anyway. Fans all upset because the team didn't sign him like the Argos had a say.

[1argoholic]

Talk about stirring a big steaming pile of crap. Unreal!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Barker has to find so many new faces year in and year out and stacks this team with talent. I'd say we have the best receiving core in the CFL. We still haven't seen Spencer. We were two tackles away from winning the other night. Two friggin tackles. One of the ten missed tackles on that short pass that Ellingson turned into a 70 yarder. The other on the punt return. Two tackles made, we win that game.
I get on Milanovich a bit but this is no time to cut him lose. He's basically working with new guys every year. We need some continuity. The team needs to get stable at it's new home and get fans out to make the home feel like home.

[Gill The Thrill]

1 interception in 4 games and the ball was tipped. Is that really what you're complaining about?

It's more the play call than the actual numbers...The fade and the jump ball is not a high percentage play and I see too many of Ricky's deep throws being these fades. Can he not throw a strong deep ball anymore.

The numbers are fine, but you have to admit they've also benefitted from the strict pass interference calls. I'll take Harris over him anytime from now, but the only point that Ray and Barker defenders have is that Harris chose to test the market. If he did leave the Argos and was offered more money, then you need to wonder what he did not like about the Argo situation, seeing that he was signed as the backup to Henry Burris in Ottawa.

[argotom]

1 interception in 4 games and the ball was tipped. Is that really what you're complaining about?

Yes one official pick, but there was another in the first game called back on account of a flag and 2 on Wednesday same deal.
The Argos 2 TD's especially the first was heavily flag assisted by Proulx and his crew.

[AngeloV]

When Trestman came to the Als, the first think he did with Calvillo is the short drop and quick release, completely opposite to Malanovich of having Ray dropping back and staying in the pocket.

I guess as well as not watching NFL (except for the hi-lights you are forced to watch) you haven't really watched or at least understood what you have been watching.

Yes one official pick, but there was another in the first game called back on account of a flag and 2 on Wednesday same deal.
The Argos 2 TD's especially the first was heavily flag assisted by Proulx and his crew.

Only one pick was actually called back. The ball clearly hit the turf on the one in the first quarter. As all turnovers are automatically reviewed, that would have been reversed.

[argotom]

It's more the play call than the actual numbers...The fade and the jump ball is not a high percentage play and I see too many of Ricky's deep throws being these fades. Can he not throw a strong deep ball anymore.

The numbers are fine, but you have to admit they've also benefitted from the strict pass interference calls. I'll take Harris over him anytime from now, but the only point that Ray and Barker defenders have is that Harris chose to test the market. If he did leave the Argos and was offered more money, then you need to wonder what he did not like about the Argo situation, seeing that he was signed as the backup to Henry Burris in Ottawa.

The bottom line is Ray should have been traded especially after his MOP year when Ottawa was coming in and during the same year Winnipeg were looking for a new QB and had to settle for Willy when Burris turned them down and went to Ottawa.
Either Collaros or Harris would have stayed if the team moved Ray and anointed either the starter that there is no question.

[1argoholic]

Ray is just warming up. Look out down the stretch. Mark my words. He's looking faster as well.

No worries as we have Fajardo who'll make Harris and Collaros look like too stiffs in a few years. Toronto the new CFL qb factory.

[Argo57]

The bottom line is Ray should have been traded especially after his MOP year when Ottawa was coming in and during the same year Winnipeg were looking for a new QB and had to settle for Willy when Burris turned them down and went to Ottawa.
Either Collaros or Harris would have stayed if the team moved Ray and anointed either the starter that there is no question.

Disagree with your sentiments on this one argotom, would have been assinine to trade Ray after his MOP season.
The subsequent shoulder surgery and Harris's overall performance in his first season would have had me reconsidering though.

[Jon Gonzo]

The OP makes it sound like an easy decision; dumping a HOF QB who is slowing down and approaching 40.

Gee, wonder why Management decided to stick with that guy?

= Anthony Cavillo.

How many times did Als Fans say the same thing?

Not that it guarantees anything, but experience and wisdom are always a good start.

[Neely2005]

Yes one official pick, but there was another in the first game called back on account of a flag and 2 on Wednesday same deal.
The Argos 2 TD's especially the first was heavily flag assisted by Proulx and his crew.

Well if we're going to start counting Ifs then we have to give Ray a few more TDs too for all the dropped balls.

[Neely2005]

It's more the play call than the actual numbers...The fade and the jump ball is not a high percentage play and I see too many of Ricky's deep throws being these fades. Can he not throw a strong deep ball anymore.

The numbers are fine, but you have to admit they've also benefitted from the strict pass interference calls. I'll take Harris over him anytime from now, but the only point that Ray and Barker defenders have is that Harris chose to test the market. If he did leave the Argos and was offered more money, then you need to wonder what he did not like about the Argo situation, seeing that he was signed as the backup to Henry Burris in Ottawa.

Does Ray call his own plays? I thought that the coaching staff called them?

[Neely2005]

The OP makes it sound like an easy decision; dumping a HOF QB who is slowing down and approaching 40.

Gee, wonder why Management decided to stick with that guy?

= Anthony Cavillo.

How many times did Al Fans say the same thing?

Not that it guarantees anything, but experience and wisdom are always a good start.

And Ray is 36. Burris won the MOP at 40. Allen won the MOP at 42.

[Gill The Thrill]

Does Ray call his own plays? I thought that the coaching staff called them?

Ricky Ray does have a brain doesn't he. Does he not have an opinion to change something or recommend something to his head coach if he notices something in reading the defense, or is he simply doing checkdowns like a high school QB on every play, and leaving all decisions to Milanovich and OC. He's the guy playing and he can be the only one of the 3, (QB, HC and OC) that can truly get a pulse for the game based on being a participant in the game.

Right or wrong. If he doesn't have any say, then that would be awfully strange after playing here for 4 years that he has not developed that rapport with Milanovich and OC.

[Neely2005]

Ricky Ray does have a brain doesn't he. Does he not have an opinion to change something or recommend something to his head coach if he notices something in reading the defense, or is he simply doing checkdowns like a high school QB on every play, and leaving all decisions to Milanovich and OC. He's the guy playing and he can be the only one of the 3, (QB, HC and OC) that can truly get a pulse for the game based on being a participant in the game.

Right or wrong. If he doesn't have any say, then that would be awfully strange after playing here for 4 years that he has not developed that rapport with Milanovich and OC.

So how do you know who is calling the Fades that you have an issue with?

[R.J]

I am not sure Barker or Milanovich's are totally blameless here. Negotiations are more than just about money. Harris has been here since 2012. Clearly, because Harris took less money to go to in Ottawa than to stay. Maybe Harris went to the RedBlack's because of their HC, OC and receivers. They look very good now and may be for the foreseeable future.

I make a living valuing assets. Present value = today's value plus the sum of all total future values. In Collaros situation, Ricky Ray then had more future value and I can see Barker's case.

In Harris's I am not so sure. Ricky Ray may have higher current value but little or no future value. I believe Ricky Ray was signed first and then Harris chose to go. It seems to me that Ricky may be done after this year or maybe next year at the latest. I think it's the GM's responsibility to find away to keep Harris. He didn't. While this has a big impact this year, the larger impact may be out in 2017 and beyond.

Eric Tillman's error in letting Ricky Ray go hurt them in 2012, but they have the same number of Grey Cups as Toronto and Mike Reilly looks like it won't be his last Grey Cup the way he is playing.

Ray had more future value than Collaros ?