Barker and Milanovich need to be fired!!!!!!!!!!

[Argo57]

We have no way of knowing how Ray will look if he is healthy and surrounded by good players (especially a good o-line) in a good system. Those conditions haven't all been there at the same time since 2014. Throwing him away at this point would be foolish. Let him come to camp and win a starting or backup job, or play himself off the roster.

Your first 2 sentences are precisely why changes should be made.

[paulwoods13]

Your first 2 sentences are precisely why changes should be made.

And have nothing to do with jettisoning the best QB we have on the roster.

[Argo57]

And have nothing to do with jettisoning the best QB we have on the roster.

I wouldn't mind seeing Ray back in Toronto, as your previous statement implies Ray has been forced to work behind a suspect O-Line and operate in an offence that fools no one at this point, (both scenarios an indictment on the HC and GM).

[Gill The Thrill]

Wow, I've missed a lot of mumbo-jumbo on this site...Ray is a hall of famer, but realistically he can no longer stretch the defense anymore. He looks to be only capable of throwing fades on any throws longer than 15 yards...he's done. To compare him to Burris now, is disrespecting his career. Burris just simply has a stronger, possibly has had a stronger arm for their entire careers, but Ray had always been more accurate and was able to get rid of the ball quickly. That's what made him look so good from day 1 in the CFL when he started with Edmonton. Without a decent O-line, you're setting Ray up for failure, with a decent O-line, he can only manage games now, and not necessarily win them.

[Neely2005]

Wow, I've missed a lot of mumbo-jumbo on this site...Ray is a hall of famer, but realistically he can no longer stretch the defense anymore. He looks to be only capable of throwing fades on any throws longer than 15 yards...he's done. To compare him to Burris now, is disrespecting his career. Burris just simply has a stronger, possibly has had a stronger arm for their entire careers, but Ray had always been more accurate and was able to get rid of the ball quickly. That's what made him look so good from day 1 in the CFL when he started with Edmonton. Without a decent O-line, you're setting Ray up for failure, with a decent O-line, he can only manage games now, and not necessarily win them.

Ray is still the best QB that we currently have on the roster.

[argos1873]

We have no way of knowing how Ray will look if he is healthy and surrounded by good players (especially a good o-line) in a good system. Those conditions haven't all been there at the same time since 2014. Throwing him away at this point would be foolish. Let him come to camp and win a starting or backup job, or play himself off the roster.

I admit my rant was partially eggnog fueled, so with a clearer head I agree with giving him a fair shot to re-earn his spot in training camp. If he can prove he's another Burris, great. But no going in with the idea he was the player he was before, or that he will stay healthy. It would be great if he graciously assumed a backup role to groom whoever becomes our starter, but that's a lot of money, with him and Willy on the payroll (I don't think Willy who should also be given a chance and not a guarentee) will be our starter.

All due respect to Ray, he's been an amazing QB, I just believe the time to look to the future at QB is now.

[argos1873]

I wouldn't mind seeing Ray back in Toronto, as your previous statement implies Ray has been forced to work behind a suspect O-Line and operate in an offence that fools no one at this point, (both scenarios an indictment on the HC and GM).

The offence can be altered, but what indication do we have that our o-line will be significantly better yet? Van Zeyl may be gone, and I didn't see many other bright spots last year. Besides, I have to say, which hall of fame QB, allows himself to wallow in a mediocre offensive scheme, unless the HOF QB realizes those schemes are the only schemes he has a chance at being successful at anymore. Just a thought.

[Argo57]

The offence can be altered, but what indication do we have that our o-line will be significantly better yet? Van Zeyl may be gone, and I didn't see many other bright spots last year. Besides, I have to say, which hall of fame QB, allows himself to wallow in a mediocre offensive scheme, unless the HOF QB realizes those schemes are the only schemes he has a chance at being successful at anymore. Just a thought.

Let's have his discussion after the draft and free agency and see how the Argos address these needs.

[Gill The Thrill]

The offence can be altered, but what indication do we have that our o-line will be significantly better yet? Van Zeyl may be gone, and I didn't see many other bright spots last year. Besides, I have to say, which hall of fame QB, allows himself to wallow in a mediocre offensive scheme, unless the HOF QB realizes those schemes are the only schemes he has a chance at being successful at anymore. Just a thought.

Are you talking about those 2 yd non-screen passes. The Argos were the only pro team I ever saw use that play continuously, as they expected their receivers or backs in the backfield to make a first down with absolutely no blocking after catching a ball with 4 defenders around them....and then people wonder why I was peeved that the Argos waited until week 16 to cut lazy receivers who never threw a block all year.

That offensive playbook must have been the thinnest of all-time, one page...a short 2yd dump after 2-3 checkdowns while every other receiver ran a go.

[PullTogether73]

Are you talking about those 2 yd non-screen passes. The Argos were the only pro team I ever saw use that play continuously, as they expected their receivers or backs in the backfield to make a first down with absolutely no blocking after catching a ball with 4 defenders around them....and then people wonder why I was peeved that the Argos waited until week 16 to cut lazy receivers who never threw a block all year.

That offensive playbook must have been the thinnest of all-time, one page...a short 2yd dump after 2-3 checkdowns while every other receiver ran a go.

Precisely my biggest sore spot about the Argos in 2016!
I pray that this doesn't happen again in 2017.

[argotom]

Precisely my biggest sore spot about the Argos in 2016!
I pray that this doesn't happen again in 2017.

Agreed.
Precisely the problem as the scheme and the playbook are designed for an immobile QB, who holds on to the ball way too long continues to be a drop back passer and bottom line cannot win any longer.
For some here to suggest Ray remains as the best currently on the roster and whether true or not, shows how much trouble we are in.
For Copeland who continues his "review" is laughable as the status quo is now more inevitable.

[Argo57]

Agreed.
Precisely the problem as the scheme and the playbook are designed for an immobile QB, who holds on to the ball way too long continues to be a drop back passer and bottom line cannot win any longer.
For some here to suggest Ray remains as the best currently on the roster and whether true or not, shows how much trouble we are in.
For Copeland who continues his "review" is laughable as the status quo is now more inevitable.

As Gary Lawless touched on in a recent article other organizations have already finalized their plans for 2017 and would not be agreeable to letting the Argonauts talk to their people at this time so it appears Copeland can ponder his organizational structure all he wants.
It appears status quo may be in effect for 2017.

[Ron]

It appears status quo may be in effect for 2017.

Which appeared to be the case a long time ago if one looked at what was actually happening and not just blindly wishing for change.

[paulwoods13]

As Gary Lawless touched on in a recent article other organizations have already finalized their plans for 2017 and would not be agreeable to letting the Argonauts talk to their people at this time so it appears Copeland can ponder his organizational structure all he wants.

So other orgs would prevent position coaches from being promoted to co-ordinator, with a salary increase? I find that hard to believe. If I was a DB coach and was offered a DC job elsewhere, and my team said No, maybe I'd quit rather than be forced to serve out the contract.

[Argo57]

Which appeared to be the case a long time ago if one looked at what was actually happening and not just blindly wishing for change.

Stupid fans!!
If it ain't broke don't fix it.

[R.J]

2017 is already over.

[Neely2005]

So other orgs would prevent position coaches from being promoted to co-ordinator, with a salary increase? I find that hard to believe. If I was a DB coach and was offered a DC job elsewhere, and my team said No, maybe I'd quit rather than be forced to serve out the contract.

Orridge brought in new rules about hiring people who are under contract.

[paulwoods13]

Orridge brought in new rules about hiring people who are under contract.

Which don't seem to prevent movement:

Orridge issued a memo to all CFL presidents and GMs on Wednesday afternoon that reads: "Effective immediately, there will be a moratorium on any coaches’ movement from one club to another club, unless such transaction is expressly approved in writing by the commissioner or his delegate, prior to the movement taking place. This only applies to coaches who are currently under contract with a CFL club."

Coaches will still be able to move from team to team but they'll have to follow Orridge's protocol. The league will act as a clearing house on these transactions and attempt to eliminate breech of contract and tampering or the appearance thereof.


This story is a year old but I can't find anything more recent to supersede it.

http://www.tsn.ca/orridge-pushes-pau...ousel-1.410333

[AngeloV]

2017 is already over.

If you say so.

[OV Argo]

If you say so.

Yeah - a tad bleak, but I'm almost inclined to agree.

Barker - hasn't fixed some glaring personnel holes/units in some time - D-backfield in particular; panic moves to trade for Willy + cut 3 starting receivers; likes to air-lift in NFL resume players and assumes they can just plug & play = little TEAM concept - who are the proven vets this team will lead on - is he going to cut/scape-goat Josh Bourke now ?

Milllanovich - same old, predictable, mostly short-pass or check-down offence; thinks Drew Willy is a starting CFL QB or that Brady is an OC ???

Drew Willy - just not a starting calibre CFL QB

Not looking good with those 3 in place IMO