Aug 20 - Edmonton Eskimos @ Toronto Argonauts

[R.J]

Until we can start the same DB's in consecutive games we are hooped. Poor continuity with all the injuries. We have found some good talent only to see them get injured and have to start over with new bodies recipe for disaster and compounded by having a spoadic offence which exposes the defence for longer than it should be. But it how we finish is what counts if we can get some bodies healthy and keep them together will pay dividends when it counts.

It's not just the db's IMO, they're getting very little help from the defensive line. When your defensive line is creating pressure and hitting the QB: it makes the db's jobs a lot easier. Though, I will agree that injuries are messing up our defense as a whole right now.

[1argoholic]

We've had a few games where we have a fair pass rush and then it's like they're standing still.

[Footballdude]

Zic gives a pretty accurate summary of the game and current state of this franchise.
No arguments with anything he said.


http://www.torontosun.com/2016/08/20...-eskimos-46-23

Frank is high, if he thinks the Argos could lose 20 Million. Comments like that only hurts the Argos with the public. The Argos run their entire operation on less then 20 Million. I agree that the loses could be in the very low Millions, but 20 million, give me a break Frank.

[argotom]

Kind of like you and all your posts about not letting Collaros leave?

Except I was proven 100% correct on both players, much to the ridicule by some who din't know what the hell they were talking about and could not evaluate talent if it hit them in the head.

[1argoholic]

Harris and Collaros have both done squat yet. I wouldn't have bailed on Ray either. I like both of those younger qb's but for various reasons they've moved on. What they do doesn't matter. We have to care about what we do. Ray has to get healthy and the coaches have to do all they can to keep it that way and run plays to keep drives alive and Ray functioning like he still can. Looking backwards does squat.

[Neely2005]

Frank is high, if he thinks the Argos could lose 20 Million. Comments like that only hurts the Argos with the public. The Argos run their entire operation on less then 20 Million. I agree that the loses could be in the very low Millions, but 20 million, give me a break Frank.

I wonder what their marketing budget is this year? With the amount of commercials and advertising that I've seen/heard it has to be huge.

[Neely2005]

Except I was proven 100% correct on both players, much to the ridicule by some who din't know what the hell they were talking about and could not evaluate talent if it hit them in the head.

#1 it's still to early to know that.

#2 you're still living in the past.

[Jon Gonzo]

In most football seasons - even ones in which the team wins the Grey Cup - there will be a low point at which the season can go either way. I hope that yesterday's game was THE low point of the season. This season reminds me a little of 1989 when the Argos moved into SkyDome. They were in a similar situation at this point in that season and things, unfortunately, went south for them. Hopefully this season will be different.

Let's put some things in perspective though. The Argos are tied for 2nd place in the East and only one point out of first place. Four teams were blown this weekend including Wally (He Can Do No Wrong) Buono's and Chris (The Genius) Jones' teams plus Ottawa who was just in the Grey Cup last year. Three of the four teams that were blown out were blown out at home where only Calgary has a winning record this season.

What does all of this mean? Yes, the Argos have some serious issues but so do most other teams in this league.

Where do the Argos go from here? Regarding Logan Kilgore, I would prefer not to see him take another snap this season. He seems to have quickly lost all of his confidence and 1 TD pass vs 10 INTs is Alvin White territory (oldtimers will know what I mean by that reference). Cody Fajardo looked better but he also threw two passes that should have been picked, was facing a defence not playing the same way as it was against Kilgore and is likely out for a while with an injury anyway. I would have no issue with the Argos going with Lefevour and McPherson as back-ups to Ray from here. If Kilgore has to dress to hold on FGs and converts, then he can be third string behind Ray and Lefevour while McPherson stays on the PR or one game injured list.

Regarding the defence, I think that the constant injuries in the secondary have caught up to this team. A similar thing seems to be happening in Ottawa and they haven't even had the quantity of secondary injuries as the Argos have. Yes, I know that is an excuse but the secondary needs five guys playing together for an extended period of time which has been impossible this season. Hopefully players like Rankin, Mitchell, Berry and Gabriel can get healthy and the Argos can figure out which five starters are the right ones and then stick with them through hell or high water. I still have faith that Rich Stubler knows what he is doing and will get this defence fixed as they have been outstanding on the road and awful at home.

There are three big games coming up against B.C. and the Ticats. This is the point in the season where it can go one of two ways and hopefully it goes in the right direction. Again, at this point, the Argos are in good company in this league as only Calgary is anywhere close to dominant at this point in the season. Other than the Stamps, there are question marks all over the place, including Hamilton, where it will take more than a thrashing of the lowly Riders to make me believe that all of their problems are resolved.

Very solid post, and a sound sober second look. This team has been all over the place, but whether we like to admit it or not, the injuries have taken their toll.

I recall our last best secondary played together for something like 3-5 seasons (Pee Wee Smith, Ivory, Wheaton, Younger/Steinhauer, Ball/Middlebrooks).

Imagine how hard it is to synch up with 4 other football players? That takes experience, trust and communication and coordinated co-operation.

Now try and imagine playing together without both a regular Safety AND a familiar MLB. Co-ordination becomes even tougher.

I say get set to settle in, if you go into labour day at .500, just get ready to giver and hope for health.

[ArgoZ]

Except I was proven 100% correct on both players, much to the ridicule by some who din't know what the hell they were talking about and could not evaluate talent if it hit them in the head.

I don't know who you could be referring to. Almost everyone posting at that time was a fan of Collaros and noticed his talent. I could even dig up one of my former posts referring to his Flutie like abilities, before you did. The overall consensus was that it was the safest and smartest move, at the time, to choose Ray over an unproven. Alas, we have talked about this to death, but you keep bringing it up. How many more games, maybe years, have to go by before we stop talking about Collaros? It's getting a little ridiculous.

[mchesher03]

Think that backend misses Gabriel more than we know too. Curious why Gordon is getting starts over Black too (maybe someone else sees differently) but argos got burned a few times last game right down the middle toward Gordon. This coming from a Michigan fan too - really want Gordon to succeed.

[tennyis]

Looking backwards does squat.

but if we don't learn from history it will repeat itself haha

[argotom]

but if we don't learn from history it will repeat itself haha

It did repeat itself the second year with Harris.

[argotom]

Harris and Collaros have both done squat yet. I wouldn't have bailed on Ray either. I like both of those younger qb's but for various reasons they've moved on. What they do doesn't matter. We have to care about what we do. Ray has to get healthy and the coaches have to do all they can to keep it that way and run plays to keep drives alive and Ray functioning like he still can. Looking backwards does squat.

Harris lead the Cats to the Grey Cup, perhaps should have won it.
Last year before being injured he was the hands down leader to win the MOP.
Harris started lights on fire this year before he went down for a few games, no doubt why coach Campbell is starting him this week.

[argotom]

I don't know who you could be referring to. Almost everyone posting at that time was a fan of Collaros and noticed his talent. I could even dig up one of my former posts referring to his Flutie like abilities, before you did. The overall consensus was that it was the safest and smartest move, at the time, to choose Ray over an unproven. Alas, we have talked about this to death, but you keep bringing it up. How many more games, maybe years, have to go by before we stop talking about Collaros? It's getting a little ridiculous.

Again not my recollection.
Most were not fans of Collaros and just like Harris, kept calling him a flash in the pan.
The vast majority went nuts on me.
I was the only one consistently stating the opposite and how the ultimate stupid decision of letting him walk would come back to bite us.
You forget coach Austin with the Cats evaluated him highly to sign him as a FA and cut Burris.
Austin no matter what people may think of him, was a great QB, an evaluator of talent and now a great coach.

[PullTogether73]

Very solid post, and a sound sober second look. This team has been all over the place, but whether we like to admit it or not, the injuries have taken their toll.

I recall our last best secondary played together for something like 3-5 seasons (Pee Wee Smith, Ivory, Wheaton, Younger/Steinhauer, Ball/Middlebrooks).

Imagine how hard it is to synch up with 4 other football players? That takes experience, trust and communication and coordinated co-operation.

Now try and imagine playing together without both a regular Safety AND a familiar MLB. Co-ordination becomes even tougher.

I say get set to settle in, if you go into labour day at .500, just get ready to giver and hope for health.

I think it is unrealistic for players to expect to play with the same group in today's game.
Injuries, injuries, injuries...
Isn't that what defensive systems are all about?
Eliminate the individual play and emphasize the system so that players can be plugged in when injuries occur without a significant drop off in effectiveness?

[Neely2005]

Harris lead the Cats to the Grey Cup, perhaps should have won it.
Last year before being injured he was the hands down leader to win the MOP.
Harris started lights on fire this year before he went down for a few games, no doubt why coach Campbell is starting him this week.

Man when did that happen???
:-)

JK I know that you're referring to Collaros AKA Mr. Glass.

[Bleeds Double Blue]

The assumption here with this quarterback debate is that Collaros and/or Harris would have stayed if named the starter over Ray. Both left as free agents. There is no guarantee that either one wanted to stay here. There may have been other factors involved although why anyone would want to be a Tiger Cat is beyond me.

Just sayin'.

[ArgoRavi]

Austin no matter what people may think of him, was a great QB, an evaluator of talent and now a great coach.

Amazing that Austin's record is remarkably similar to Milanovich's.

[Neely2005]

The assumption here with this quarterback debate is that Collaros and/or Harris would have stayed if named the starter over Ray. Both left as free agents. There is no guarantee that either one wanted to stay here. There may have been other factors involved although why anyone would want to be a Tiger Cat is beyond me.

Just sayin'.

Well in Collaros' case the Argonauts future wasn't exactly secure at that time.

[R.J]

Amazing that Austin's record is remarkably similar to Milanovich's.

Austin: 45-35 regular season record, 7-3 record in the playoffs, and 3 out of 4 years that Austin's been a Head Coach (not including this year of course), he's gone to the Grey Cup and won once. Austin's teams have also never missed the playoffs.

Milanovich: 42-38 regular season record, 3-2 in the playoffs, 1 Grey Appearance and win. All of Milanovich's playoff wins came in 2012, and missed the playoffs in 2014.


EDIT: Just for clarification, Austin's and Milanovich's regular season records include this season up to this point.


On a side note: I've never seen Milanovich with hair, so I was surprised when I saw this.