1984 East Final

[Will]

I found an article from the Globe & Mail written on February 12, 1986 by a Philip King (I think he's the editor now). The coaches and players were against moving the schedule from 16 to 18 games at that time. The coaches were opposed because they felt that they wouldn't have enough time for player evaluation with just two exhibition games while the players were worried that two extra regular season games would increase the chances of injury. Yes, there is also a paragraph about players being concerned that the "league will refuse to compensate them in a new contract for the increased schedule."

[ArgoRavi]

I found an article from the Globe & Mail written on February 12, 1986 by a Philip King (I think he's the editor now). The coaches and players were against moving the schedule from 16 to 18 games at that time. The coaches were opposed because they felt that they wouldn't have enough time for player evaluation with just two exhibition games while the players were worried that two extra regular season games would increase the chances of injury. Yes, there is also a paragraph about players being concerned that the "league will refuse to compensate them in a new contract for the increased schedule."

I also recall controversy when regular season overtime was introduced in, I believe, 1986. The Argos had an early season game in Edmonton which almost ended up going to OT (Argos won on a missed Chomyc FG on the final play) and there was speculation as to whether the players would play the overtime. I believe that the league hadn't gotten the CFLPA's okay to play even more football. This was eventually ironed out by the time the first game went into OT later that season - Hamilton at Saskatchewan IIRC which ended in a tie.

[paulwoods13]

I don't remember what happened with player comp but I really doubt players were given 11% pay increases. The league had just about lost the Stampeders to bankruptcy in 1985, Sask was holding fundraising telethons in those days and the Als/Concordes had been a basket case for half a decade. I was working as a reporter then in Calgary and covered some league issues. I have a distinct memory of a scrum where George Reed, then head of the CFLPA, essentially said the league had the players over a barrel and the players had to capitulate to ensure the league survived.

The OT issue almost came to a head at the Tor-Edm game Ravi mentioned. It was tied 34-34 in the last few minutes and the player reps (Dan Ferrone and Hec Pothier, IIRC) were gesticulating to each other across the field to try to figure out if the players would agree to play OT. As it turned out Ilesic kicked a single (I believe on a missed FG, not surprisingly) and the Argos won 35-34.

[Will]

I also recall controversy when regular season overtime was introduced in, I believe, 1986. The Argos had an early season game in Edmonton which almost ended up going to OT (Argos won on a missed Chomyc FG on the final play) and there was speculation as to whether the players would play the overtime. I believe that the league hadn't gotten the CFLPA's okay to play even more football. This was eventually ironed out by the time the first game went into OT later that season - Hamilton at Saskatchewan IIRC which ended in a tie.

I assume you mean the August 1, 1986 game that the Argos won 35-34 off a last-second Lance Chomyc single? If so, I don't see any mention in the Star's write-up of that game pertaining to any issues.

[paulwoods13]

I assume you mean the August 1, 1986 game that the Argos won 35-34 off a last-second Lance Chomyc single? If so, I don't see any mention in the Star's write-up of that game pertaining to any issues.

I had misremembered it as Ilesic, but it was in fact Chomyc. The Star story was probably written under intense deadline pressure because of the game being played in Mtn time zone. And Matsumoto (or whomever) wouldn't have had access to the sideline reporting of (IIRC) Al McCann, who told TV viewers about the drama being played out between Ferrone and (IIRC) Pothier as the game approached a possible OT.

[ArgoRavi]

I had misremembered it as Ilesic, but it was in fact Chomyc. The Star story was probably written under intense deadline pressure because of the game being played in Mtn time zone. And Matsumoto (or whomever) wouldn't have had access to the sideline reporting of (IIRC) Al McCann, who told TV viewers about the drama being played out between Ferrone and (IIRC) Pothier as the game approached a possible OT.

I believe that one of Frank Cosentino's books makes mention of this incident as well.

Were you in Calgary, Paul, during the SOS (Save Our Stamps) campaign during the 1985-86 off-season? There is an iconic photo of then-Stamps DB Richie Hall weeping outside the city council chambers after the city refused to provide the team with some kind of financial relief. It looked like the Stamps were dead in the water at that point but they managed to come back from the dead.

[paulwoods13]

I believe that one of Frank Cosentino's books makes mention of this incident as well.

Were you in Calgary, Paul, during the SOS (Save Our Stamps) campaign during the 1985-86 off-season? There is an iconic photo of then-Stamps DB Richie Hall weeping outside the city council chambers after the city refused to provide the team with some kind of financial relief. It looked like the Stamps were dead in the water at that point but they managed to come back from the dead.

That campaign was over by the time I got to Calgary at the start of the 1986 season, but I recall that picture well. The Stamps were essentially brought back to life in 1986 by that campaign, and were fortunate the team got competitive very quickly. QB Rick Johnson was a fun guy to deal with; Lary Kuharich (who replaced Bob Vespaziani as head coach in 1987, I believe) was anything but fun to deal with.

[Will]

That campaign was over by the time I got to Calgary at the start of the 1986 season, but I recall that picture well. The Stamps were essentially brought back to life in 1986 by that campaign, and were fortunate the team got competitive very quickly. QB Rick Johnson was a fun guy to deal with; Lary Kuharich (who replaced Bob Vespaziani as head coach in 1987, I believe) was anything but fun to deal with.

Gary Allen was a good running back.
Harold Hallman also had an excellent rookie season.

[Will]

I had misremembered it as Ilesic, but it was in fact Chomyc. The Star story was probably written under intense deadline pressure because of the game being played in Mtn time zone. And Matsumoto (or whomever) wouldn't have had access to the sideline reporting of (IIRC) Al McCann, who told TV viewers about the drama being played out between Ferrone and (IIRC) Pothier as the game approached a possible OT.

I don't doubt it, but I couldn't even find any articles pertaining to the situation in the days following that game.

[Gill The Thrill]

I found an article from the Globe & Mail written on February 12, 1986 by a Philip King (I think he's the editor now). The coaches and players were against moving the schedule from 16 to 18 games at that time. The coaches were opposed because they felt that they wouldn't have enough time for player evaluation with just two exhibition games while the players were worried that two extra regular season games would increase the chances of injury. Yes, there is also a paragraph about players being concerned that the "league will refuse to compensate them in a new contract for the increased schedule."

1986 was a sad year for the CFL imo. There had been a huge drop in TV ratings since the Argos had won the Grey Cup in 1983. Attendances across the league was down from the record levels (for that time) that they had reached in 1983. I beleive over 31,000 avg per game was the record in 1983. To put it in perspective that's over 6,000 more per game than the average today. Montreal had changed their name back to Alouettes after being known as the Concordes for the previous 4 seasons. The BC Lions were defending Grey Cup champions after not having won the cup for 22 years and fans in Vancouver responded as similarly as Toronto sports fans after the Argos had won in '83, they stopped going to games. It was also widely known that the league was not going to make as much in their upcoming TV deal, as 1986 was the last year of the lucrative deal with Carling O'Keefe paying the league 33 million dollars over 3 years with broadcast partner CTV. Carling O'Keefe was still the majority owner of the Argos but were divesting themselves of their sports properties. '86 was the last year CTV broadcast CFL games because of the end of that TV deal and has not broadcast a game since. The history of the founding of the network could be attributed to John Bassett getting the rights to the Eastern Conference games in 1961, and the network had televised games for 26 years straight.

I think the coaches and players were right in that having only 2 preseason games does not offer enough time to evaluate players in game situations and the 18 game schedule does naturally offer more risk of injury for starters. Both of these scenarios are not in the best interest for fans because it's watered down the product and taken away from hype. The 4 game preseason was used to sell season tickets as it was not uncommon for the Argos to draw 25-30k for a preseason game in those days. They would usually win 2-3 games and this would also hype the marketing of the team while raising fan expectations. I believe more players were invited to camp in those days and were offered more opportunity to be evaluated properly in game situations compared to just being observed in practice, or a blue/white scrimmage. Let's face it, there are guys in every sport that look like world beaters in team scrimmages, but are nowhere near as productive in actual games against real opponents that they don't see everyday in camp fighting for jobs on their own teams. Newspapers and media in general also used to discuss the competition for jobs in certain positions in much the same way you hear American reporters discuss competition for jobs during the longer NFL training camp. Today, the competition for jobs is just heard in passing, and if you blink, you miss it, because it's already week 1 before you know it.

[Gill The Thrill]

Unfortunately, the you tube posting for this game and the 84 West Final between Wpg and BC have been removed.

This represented a great part of CFL history and of sportscast history in Canadian Television. I enjoyed flashing back to these two games from my youth and enjoyed not just the football broadcast, but even some of the ads of that era, as it brought back a lot of nostalgia.

I hope the poster wasn't ordered to remove those games by copyright holders. We are talking games that took place over 30 years ago now.Wow, just thinking that it's been that long is reason enough to keep it on as a historical archive.

[ArgoRavi]

Unfortunately, the you tube posting for this game and the 84 West Final between Wpg and BC have been removed.

This represented a great part of CFL history and of sportscast history in Canadian Television. I enjoyed flashing back to these two games from my youth and enjoyed not just the football broadcast, but even some of the ads of that era, as it brought back a lot of nostalgia.

I hope the poster wasn't ordered to remove those games by copyright holders. We are talking games that took place over 30 years ago now.Wow, just thinking that it's been that long is reason enough to keep it on as a historical archive.

Yeah, I am not sure what happened to Gump who had posted these and many other games. Newton Minow is still posting and I also found that the two most recent CFL all-star games (1983 and 1988) are now up on YouTube.

BTW, I don't think that the CFL has any problems with these old telecasts being up. I have gotten the feeling that they welcome these very much.

[Will]

Unfortunately, the you tube posting for this game and the 84 West Final between Wpg and BC have been removed.

This represented a great part of CFL history and of sportscast history in Canadian Television. I enjoyed flashing back to these two games from my youth and enjoyed not just the football broadcast, but even some of the ads of that era, as it brought back a lot of nostalgia.

I hope the poster wasn't ordered to remove those games by copyright holders. We are talking games that took place over 30 years ago now.Wow, just thinking that it's been that long is reason enough to keep it on as a historical archive.

It would be very disappointing if the poster was ordered to remove the games. To my knowledge, CTV destroyed their archive of CFL games (or it may have been destroyed in a fire). I think CBC maintains a better archive (someone may have mentioned you can order them).

Neither Newton Minnow or Gump have posted too many games in recent months.

[paulwoods13]

It would be very disappointing if the poster was ordered to remove the games. To my knowledge, CTV destroyed their archive of CFL games (or it may have been destroyed in a fire). I think CBC maintains a better archive (someone may have mentioned you can order them).

AFAIK, both networks, and particularly CTV, reused tape -- i.e. taped new programs on it, thereby erasing what was previously on the tape. I spent a fair bit of time trying to find old games in CBC's online archive when I was researching the 1983 book and came up almost empty. There was one game listed in the archive that I really wanted to see again (Tor at Wpg in 1982) but the deeper I drilled, the less convinced I was that a copy actually existed. Maybe it will surface at some point. They make it incredibly difficult to navigate the archive and order copies, presumably because they fear it will end up in general circulation. But I am willing to bet I have more game tapes in my own archive than Bell and CBC combined. At some point I want to open my entire archive up for public enjoyment, but there's no easy way to do that as (a) I don't own the content and (b) uploading it all to YouTube or some other place would take more bandwidth (and time) than I have to spare. I will eventually try to donate it to some place that can house it and make it available. At one point a decade or more ago, the CFL itself announced that it was seeking old content from private collections. I contacted the third party that was tasked with this, to offer full access to my collection; never heard back, and I presume the initiative died.

[Will]

AFAIK, both networks, and particularly CTV, reused tape -- i.e. taped new programs on it, thereby erasing what was previously on the tape. I spent a fair bit of time trying to find old games in CBC's online archive when I was researching the 1983 book and came up almost empty. There was one game listed in the archive that I really wanted to see again (Tor at Wpg in 1982) but the deeper I drilled, the less convinced I was that a copy actually existed. Maybe it will surface at some point. They make it incredibly difficult to navigate the archive and order copies, presumably because they fear it will end up in general circulation. But I am willing to bet I have more game tapes in my own archive than Bell and CBC combined. At some point I want to open my entire archive up for public enjoyment, but there's no easy way to do that as (a) I don't own the content and (b) uploading it all to YouTube or some other place would take more bandwidth (and time) than I have to spare. I will eventually try to donate it to some place that can house it and make it available. At one point a decade or more ago, the CFL itself announced that it was seeking old content from private collections. I contacted the third party that was tasked with this, to offer full access to my collection; never heard back, and I presume the initiative died.

I was watching Pinball's speech a few weeks ago from the honorary degree he received from William & Mary and the intro video showed him scoring a touchdown against the Stallions in the 1994 season. They may have used your clips from the YouTube video you posted of that game from a few weeks back.

[paulwoods13]

I was watching Pinball's speech a few weeks ago from the honorary degree he received from William & Mary and the intro video showed him scoring a touchdown against the Stallions in the 1994 season. They may have used your clips from the YouTube video you posted of that game from a few weeks back.

Very likely. I've seen a lot of "my" YouTube clips on the jumbotron over the years, and a few on various TV broadcasts. I'm happy to have them used and seen, and obviously I'd far prefer that than to have someone order them to be taken down.