Ownership very quiet

[AngeloV]

Oh yeah - Cross would have tackled him for sure.


A blind squirrel finds a nut the odd time; Doe is one of the most mediocre to useless CFL return guys i have seen in a long time; but Mr. Ed and Maas keep trotting that stiff out there. Meanwhile - superb CIS punt returner Ryan Neuuwesteg gets zero CFL shot at returning any kicks - even in exhibition games - in his so-called CFL try-out with the kick-return star laden Argos.

I've always wanted to ask you, how often have you actually seen all these CIS players play in the CIS. You can bring up stats and what not all you want, but honestly, they mean nothing. There are thousands of NCAA players that had good careers that also never received what you would refer to as a fair shot. Sorry, but at least these guys get a chance to show if they are pro material in camp, whether you want to believe it or not. Better players will find their way onto the field.

[OV Argo]

I've always wanted to ask you, how often have you actually seen all these CIS players play in the CIS. You can bring up stats and what not all you want, but honestly, they mean nothing. There are thousands of NCAA players that had good careers that also never received what you would refer to as a fair shot. Sorry, but at least these guys get a chance to show if they are pro material in camp, whether you want to believe it or not. Better players will find their way onto the field.

Just FYI - saw Neuuwesteg play several times in CIS ball, including play-off games with higher comeptition/big games on the line- and he was very impressive as a returner - shifty, caught the ball, made lots of yards; his CIS stats there over a couple of seasons there were superb; you ever see him play there? You're quite OK though with dismissing CIS stats (you ever play at that level of football?), but defending all CFL GOB decisions to hand playing time to their American guys though. Obvious - is what it is. Sorry - but I have to go by what I see from the playing field - nice to see Llevi Noel not playing at receiver after a couple of really nice receptions the previous game - you manage to watch those plays, or maybe too busy ignoring them or dreaming up more GOB Americans first excuses ?

[Ron]

all CFL GOB decisions

If this actually existed there would never be a Cornish or an Andrew Harris. They never would have got the chance.

[Gill The Thrill]

Pretty harsh. I can admit that I have tendencies be a homer and side with Argonauts management or players. What's wrong with supporting your team though? I would much prefer to hang around someone who is supportive than people that want everyone fired and cut after a loss. Seriously, if I'm going for a beer after a game, do I want to be around positive, reasonable minded people, or the guys that are going to be calling for people's jobs the rest of the night?

Those were two stinkers, terrible losses at home that will get nobody excited to continue watching. This is not about beers after the game and being a nice guy. Everybody appears to be a nice guy after the game. But you need to have proper criticism. When Angelo says "who cares, he's (Cross) hardly going to touch the ball" in describing Cross. Then why is he on the team and why should I, as a fan, be satisfied with having to pay to watch sub-par players compared to fans of other teams in the league.

If you go back to other threads Angelo is always the initiator of personal insults and I think that has to stop. Not just with me, but other posters. I think it's his, 'Argos can do nothing wrong, nor be questioned' attitude that has chased fans away not just from this board, but from the stadium. Supporting the team is one thing, but caring enough to criticize the football decisions should not be met with personal insults. Other guys don't agree, but they're smart enough to give reasons why, they don't just hurl insults like this clown.

PS...as the old saying goes...two can play the same game and I'll respond to his post directly.

[Gill The Thrill]

If this actually existed there would never be a Cornish or an Andrew Harris. They never would have got the chance.

Note they didn't play in Toronto. I don't think it's as conspiratorial, but there has been plenty of nationals who have not got a good chance to show their stuff in Toronto.

OV mentioned Niewesteeg, as a recent Canadian who hardly got a look by the Argos...you could go back over the years and the list is shocking. How many CIS all-stars were barely given any playing time, especially on offence. From Elberg, to Irwin, to Jock Climie who ended up going to Ottawa and then had a great career with Montreal. Even Paul Nastasiuk. Durie might as well have retired with how little he's being used presently and Coombs looks to be well on his way to marginalization by this Argo regime after having a good rookie year.

[Gill The Thrill]

Congratulations. You have officially become the biggest idiot on this forum.

Glad to see you got your tongue out of Barker's ass to respond as stupidly as you always do. Goodnight.


Sometimes you just have to stoop down to other people's level to make your point. You didn't think I'd let you call me an idiot and not respond.It's what you wanted didn't you, so I accommodated you, just to show how inclusive I am.

[Argo]

Those were two stinkers, terrible losses at home that will get nobody excited to continue watching. This is not about beers after the game and being a nice guy. Everybody appears to be a nice guy after the game. But you need to have proper criticism. When Angelo says "who cares, he's (Cross) hardly going to touch the ball" in describing Cross. Then why is he on the team and why should I, as a fan, be satisfied with having to pay to watch sub-par players compared to fans of other teams in the league.

If you go back to other threads Angelo is always the initiator of personal insults and I think that has to stop. Not just with me, but other posters. I think it's his, 'Argos can do nothing wrong, nor be questioned' attitude that has chased fans away not just from this board, but from the stadium. Supporting the team is one thing, but caring enough to criticize the football decisions should not be met with personal insults. Other guys don't agree, but they're smart enough to give reasons why, they don't just hurl insults like this clown.

PS...as the old saying goes...two can play the same game and I'll respond to his post directly.

The tone on this board has become pretty ugly and an underlying North Korea vibe doesn't help matters.

[argolio]

If Cross is a great blocker who can't catch, then why is he a FB lining up as an eligible receiver.

Because that play was a tendency-breaker you might try once a game or every few games. Sort of like when you see a team throw to an eligible o-lineman.

superb CIS punt returner Ryan Neuuwesteg gets zero CFL shot at returning any kicks - even in exhibition games - in his so-called CFL try-out with the kick-return star laden Argos.

Doing nothing in camp gets you no opportunities. I noticed rookie o-lineman Chris Kolankowski a lot more than Nieuwesteeg in camp, and o-linemen are generally not easy to notice. Plus Nieuwesteeg was a last round pick so he was a long shot to begin with. I don't think any 2016 8th round pick is currently on a 46-man roster.

How many CIS all-stars were barely given any playing time, especially on offence. From Elberg, to Irwin, to Jock Climie who ended up going to Ottawa and then had a great career with Montreal. Even Paul Nastasiuk. Durie might as well have retired with how little he's being used presently and Coombs looks to be well on his way to marginalization by this Argo regime after having a good rookie year.

Climie's misfortune was that Don Matthews just couldn't stand his personality. Don cut him twice.

Elberg shouldn't have been here at all. Trading Dave Mudge for him was the dumbest of many dumb moves by J.I. and Huard.

[Ron]

Because that play was a tendency-breaker you might try once a game or every few games. Sort of like when you see a team throw to an eligible o-lineman.

And fans rave about them when they work.

[Wobbler]

The tone on this board has become pretty ugly and an underlying North Korea vibe doesn't help matters.

Well said.

[Wobbler]

Please try not to be jackasses, everyone. If you see a post that you think fails to meet this standard, report it. We've already temp-banned someone this week, so rest assured that your concerns will be taken seriously.

[1argoholic]

The Argos have been notorious in not allowing or giving a fair shake to CIS players. Look around the league at most other teams who value CIS players and many have become stars no matter where they are from. I think Wally has always done a terrific job in utilizing Canadians. The Stamps have been great as well. Perhaps the issue is with where teams are spending most of their time scouting. Barker seems to have small college USA covered very well but CIS seems to be more of an after thought or a necessary evil to him. My perception of his drafting of CIS players. He takes a lot of gambles but perhaps that's his way of crapping on the system. Every year we shake our heads after the draft wondering why Barker passes on quality CIS known CIS talent only to go way off the board.

[doubleblue]

The last few years though Barker has turned to the CIS players along with a couple of Juniors. Dupuis, Gabriel, Sewell (kind of a failure, turned into Shawn Lemon), McEwen, Waud, Walker, Jones, Noel, Campbell, Sackey, Cross and Newton. I think half a dozen of that group are or will be starters. It goes in cycles. The 2018 draft might have more NCAA players picked as there are quite a few Canadians down there in their Junior year right now.

[paulwoods13]

The Argos have been notorious in not allowing or giving a fair shake to CIS players. Look around the league at most other teams who value CIS players and many have become stars no matter where they are from. I think Wally has always done a terrific job in utilizing Canadians. The Stamps have been great as well. Perhaps the issue is with where teams are spending most of their time scouting. Barker seems to have small college USA covered very well but CIS seems to be more of an after thought or a necessary evil to him. My perception of his drafting of CIS players. He takes a lot of gambles but perhaps that's his way of crapping on the system. Every year we shake our heads after the draft wondering why Barker passes on quality CIS known CIS talent only to go way off the board.

I don't think there is a shred of evidence for this being true in the Barker era. Five of their seven first-rounders since 2010 have come from CIS. Exceptions being Eppele in 2010 and Holmes in 2011. This year eight out of nine picks came from CIS, and the other (Noel) came from Cdn junior football via CIS. (Six of them have dressed for us this year.) Last year all seven picks came from CIS. (Four have dressed for us this season.) The previous year all nine came from CIS. (Three are still with us and one with B.C.) So IMO it's absurd to suggest we "have been notorious in not allowing or giving a fair shake to CIS players." Maybe that was true 10-15-20 years ago, but it sure isn't true in recent years.

[AngeloV]

Just FYI - saw Neuuwesteg play several times in CIS ball, including play-off games with higher comeptition/big games on the line- and he was very impressive as a returner - shifty, caught the ball, made lots of yards; his CIS stats there over a couple of seasons there were superb; you ever see him play there? You're quite OK though with dismissing CIS stats (you ever play at that level of football?), but defending all CFL GOB decisions to hand playing time to their American guys though. Obvious - is what it is. Sorry - but I have to go by what I see from the playing field - nice to see Llevi Noel not playing at receiver after a couple of really nice receptions the previous game - you manage to watch those plays, or maybe too busy ignoring them or dreaming up more GOB Americans first excuses ?

I was at the Guelph York game last year. He really didn't stand out. Also was in Guelph for camp this year a couple of times. Not sure if he had the jitters or not, but struggled to catch punts. He's quick, which will make him very good at the CIS level, but in the pros he isn't any quicker than the players he will be playing against.

[R.J]

I don't think there is a shred of evidence for this being true in the Barker era. Five of their seven first-rounders since 2010 have come from CIS. Exceptions being Eppele in 2010 and Holmes in 2011. This year eight out of nine picks came from CIS, and the other (Noel) came from Cdn junior football via CIS. (Six of them have dressed for us this year.) Last year all seven picks came from CIS. (Four have dressed for us this season.) The previous year all nine came from CIS. (Three are still with us and one with B.C.) So IMO it's absurd to suggest we "have been notorious in not allowing or giving a fair shake to CIS players." Maybe that was true 10-15-20 years ago, but it sure isn't true in recent years.

Pfft. Facts - Who needs 'em

[REAL]

Those were two stinkers, terrible losses at home that will get nobody excited to continue watching. This is not about beers after the game and being a nice guy. Everybody appears to be a nice guy after the game. But you need to have proper criticism. When Angelo says "who cares, he's (Cross) hardly going to touch the ball" in describing Cross. Then why is he on the team and why should I, as a fan, be satisfied with having to pay to watch sub-par players compared to fans of other teams in the league.

If you go back to other threads Angelo is always the initiator of personal insults and I think that has to stop. Not just with me, but other posters. I think it's his, 'Argos can do nothing wrong, nor be questioned' attitude that has chased fans away not just from this board, but from the stadium. Supporting the team is one thing, but caring enough to criticize the football decisions should not be met with personal insults. Other guys don't agree, but they're smart enough to give reasons why, they don't just hurl insults like this clown.

PS...as the old saying goes...two can play the same game and I'll respond to his post directly.

He is on the team because he went to training camp and earned a spot. You may not like what he is doing but he is doing exactly what he is asked to do by the ST coach. He has not missed any ST assignments given to him. Yes he dropped a pass that came his way, big deal so do all the receivers on this team and I don't see them being called out. Cool it.

[AngeloV]

He is on the team because he went to training camp and earned a spot. You may not like what he is doing but he is doing exactly what he is asked to do by the ST coach. He has not missed any ST assignments given to him. Yes he dropped a pass that came his way, big deal so do all the receivers on this team and I don't see them being called out. Cool it.

Well said. Way too many pot shots taken at players for what is supposed to be a forum for the team's fans.

[1argoholic]

I don't believe we use our Canadian talent to it's full potential is what I was trying to say. The Argos have been notorious for that with a few exceptions. Why even have Durie on this team. Why we don't use Coombs who would be run into the ground on some teams. I think that Milo has the old school train of thought that a player has to earn the right after a few years. Well Coombs is been around and Durie is the consummate pro. Let's see more Noel. You can't compare the heart of a Canadian player playing in their league to anyone else. I guess I'd love to see another Masotti type of player staring for us.

[OV Argo]

I don't believe we use our Canadian talent to it's full potential is what I was trying to say. The Argos have been notorious for that with a few exceptions. Why even have Durie on this team. Why we don't use Coombs who would be run into the ground on some teams. I think that Milo has the old school train of thought that a player has to earn the right after a few years. Well Coombs is been around and Durie is the consummate pro. Let's see more Noel. You can't compare the heart of a Canadian player playing in their league to anyone else. I guess I'd love to see another Masotti type of player staring for us.

The expectations for young Canadian players is very low - a CFL thing - certainly with your typical CFL GOB decision maker (dem NIs isn't pro ready / take years to develop / inferior trained.,blah, blah, etc, etc. - all the typical cliches that have been used for years and get parroted by dupes); and also with CFL fans - a majority of whom probably know little about young Canadian players, even superstars from Canadian college ball like a Durie or Fantuz or Buckley.

Llevi Noel & Brian Jones are IMO 2 fantastic young receiver talents that the Argos were lucky (IMO) to get in the same draft. Maybe one or both of them could become another Masotti type, or maybe put up some Durie like yard production .... that's IF they ever get much shot to play - we shall see. The problem for them is, they play at positions that this Argo braintrust has pencilled in for Americans only (4 receiver spots outside of the Durie/Coomb/H-back role); Noel made 2 very impressive plays 2 games ago - a nice hands grab with some YAC yards tacked on, and a difficult/nice TD grab on a longer throw; if he was an import - I'd bet anything / almost guarantee that those catches/talent shown would have earned him more playing time or a start the next game - and especially with a team that has had injury issues or lacking production at receiver; doesn't work that way for Canadian players in the CFL though. You and I might like to see more Noel, but I doubt this coaching staff does for now; he'll have to bide his time on special teams (doing well there) and maybe get in as an in-game injury replacement. We'll see if him or Jones ever become starting /regular Argo receivers with this coaching staff in place - might be hard to beat out Wallace Miles type talent.