Ownership very quiet

[R.J]

Yeah, I would have started Noel over Miles and Bates. I really want to see Jones on the offence and getting some decent reps - I think he could be useful.

[OV Argo]

Yeah, I would have started Noel over Miles and Bates. I really want to see Jones on the offence and getting some decent reps - I think he could be useful.

What ??? - you're disagreeing with a CFL coaching staff on personnel decisions? Why, I'll have you know these are paid professionals who "just want to win" and will only go with the "best" players that give them the best chance to win. These decisions are basically inscrutable and should not be challenged or questioned by know-nothing couch potato fans spouting off on the internet.

[ArgoZ]

What ??? - you're disagreeing with a CFL coaching staff on personnel decisions? Why, I'll have you know these are paid professionals who "just want to win" and will only go with the "best" players that give them the best chance to win. These decisions are basically inscrutable and should not be challenged or questioned by know-nothing couch potato fans spouting off on the internet.

There is some underlying truth to your post. There has been some heavy opinionated postings as of late, by people who have jobs or live daily life not even remotely connected to any sport, whatsoever. I'm sure that if some actual CFL coaches or players read these threads, they would get a laugh out of our "expert" opinions, based on what we see from the outside only.

[Gill The Thrill]

There is some underlying truth to your post. There has been some heavy opinionated postings as of late, by people who have jobs or live daily life not even remotely connected to any sport, whatsoever. I'm sure that if some actual CFL coaches or players read these threads, they would get a laugh out of our "expert" opinions, based on what we see from the outside only.

I don't think they'll be laughing if the losing continues because ownership and COO's may be reading the forums to get a pulse of what fans are feeling. Fans are not to be laughed at, especially CFL fans who pay money to watch the product in Toronto. They should be treated like gold as another poster mentioned on this site. The Saskatchewan Roughriders may be able to afford to, but even they don't because they realize that fans are big part of the organization's off-field success because of their loyalty which results in merchandise sales that beats many NHL teams in this country and leads the CFL, even though it's the smallest market.

In many ways, many on here are "experts", they've been watching this brand of football for decades and that's probably more than some of the Coaches and GM's. They've also been around long enough to see the repeated mistakes from different ownership groups. As fans, do we know the inside scoop on everything? probably not, but judging by the play on the field it can't be that hard to adjudicate if you've watched the CFL long enough.

[1argoholic]

There were years when I was lucky enough to know inside scoops. We hung around Erindale a ton as well as seeing players after games at Badalis and at meet the Argo Nights. You would learn plenty and I remember Pinball sitting down with me after practice telling me quietly how he basically disliked coaching. It really wasn't his thing.
Fans do know plenty as Gill stated and there are certain things that happen in a season that you see repeating whether in a good or bad way from past years. You can't help but compare to a certain extent. Mistakes are mistakes. Please don't bring up certain qb's??? I wasn't going there.

[Argo]

I don't think they'll be laughing if the losing continues because ownership and COO's may be reading the forums to get a pulse of what fans are feeling. Fans are not to be laughed at, especially CFL fans who pay money to watch the product in Toronto. They should be treated like gold as another poster mentioned on this site. The Saskatchewan Roughriders may be able to afford to, but even they don't because they realize that fans are big part of the organization's off-field success because of their loyalty which results in merchandise sales that beats many NHL teams in this country and leads the CFL, even though it's the smallest market.

In many ways, many on here are "experts", they've been watching this brand of football for decades and that's probably more than some of the Coaches and GM's. They've also been around long enough to see the repeated mistakes from different ownership groups. As fans, do we know the inside scoop on everything? probably not, but judging by the play on the field it can't be that hard to adjudicate if you've watched the CFL long enough.

Yes, and this is football not quantum mechanics, so common sense and perspective can go a long way. (Not to say that anyone here holds the monopoly on, or always uses, common sense.)

[ArgoRavi]

The expectations for young Canadian players is very low - a CFL thing - certainly with your typical CFL GOB decision maker (dem NIs isn't pro ready / take years to develop / inferior trained.,blah, blah, etc, etc. - all the typical cliches that have been used for years and get parroted by dupes); and also with CFL fans - a majority of whom probably know little about young Canadian players, even superstars from Canadian college ball like a Durie or Fantuz or Buckley.

Llevi Noel & Brian Jones are IMO 2 fantastic young receiver talents that the Argos were lucky (IMO) to get in the same draft. Maybe one or both of them could become another Masotti type, or maybe put up some Durie like yard production .... that's IF they ever get much shot to play - we shall see. The problem for them is, they play at positions that this Argo braintrust has pencilled in for Americans only (4 receiver spots outside of the Durie/Coomb/H-back role); Noel made 2 very impressive plays 2 games ago - a nice hands grab with some YAC yards tacked on, and a difficult/nice TD grab on a longer throw; if he was an import - I'd bet anything / almost guarantee that those catches/talent shown would have earned him more playing time or a start the next game - and especially with a team that has had injury issues or lacking production at receiver; doesn't work that way for Canadian players in the CFL though. You and I might like to see more Noel, but I doubt this coaching staff does for now; he'll have to bide his time on special teams (doing well there) and maybe get in as an in-game injury replacement. We'll see if him or Jones ever become starting /regular Argo receivers with this coaching staff in place - might be hard to beat out Wallace Miles type talent.

Does anyone recall Masotti's career in this league? Did the Argos throw him in right away before he was ready to start? No, of course not. They developed him for a couple of years before he was ready to start and become an impact player in this league. Why should they do any differently with Noel or Jones if they aren't quite ready to start now?

[Will]

Does anyone recall Masotti's career in this league? Did the Argos throw him in right away before he was ready to start? No, of course not. They developed him for a couple of years before he was ready to start and become an impact player in this league. Why should they do any differently with Noel or Jones if they aren't quite ready to start now?

The Argos had a good receiving corps back in the late 1980's, but there was a transition from Paul Pearson to Paul Masotti that took a few years. I think he was more or less in the "Starting 4" by 1989-1990 though.

[ArgoRavi]

The Argos had a good receiving corps back in the late 1980's, but there was a transition from Paul Pearson to Paul Masotti that took a few years. I think he was more or less in the "Starting 4" by 1989-1990 though.

He may have been in '89 but he wasn't in '88. They gave him time to develop that '88 season after being released by the Redskins. IIRC, Dwight Edwards was still ahead of him in the pecking order of receivers.

[Will]

He may have been in '89 but he wasn't in '88. They gave him time to develop that '88 season after being released by the Redskins. IIRC, Dwight Edwards was still ahead of him in the pecking order of receivers.

I don't think National players contributed much to the Argo passing game in 1988. I think that the strengths there were Darrell Smith (no K yet) and Jeff Boyd with Pernell Moore in a supporting role.

[paulwoods13]

Masotti definitely played very little in 1988. In 1989 he started to see action, catching 31 passes (less than two per game). It wasn't until 1994 -- his seventh season -- that he became a really significant factor in the offence.


Yr Team C Yds Avg Lg TD
1988 Tor 2 50 25.0 33 1
1989 Tor 31 443 14.3 55 4
1990 Tor 37 592 16.0 60 5
1991 Tor 23 360 0.0 36 2
1992 Tor 44 801 18.2 45 2
1993 Tor 36 606 16.8 72 3
1994 Tor 67 1,280 19.1 67 9
1995 Tor 70 1,336 19.1 80 3
1996 Tor 73 1,023 14.0 97 7
1997 Tor 77 1,011 13.1 51 5
1998 Tor 66 897 13.6 66 2
1999 Tor 30 373

[Argo57]

There is some underlying truth to your post. There has been some heavy opinionated postings as of late, by people who have jobs or live daily life not even remotely connected to any sport, whatsoever. I'm sure that if some actual CFL coaches or players read these threads, they would get a laugh out of our "expert" opinions, based on what we see from the outside only.

It's called being a fan, and although not employed in the pro football industry most of us have been watching football long enough to recognize talent and good coaching and shockingly express these opinions.
Of course there are issues behind the scenes which factor into any teams decisions but all that matters to most fans is team success or at the very least an entertaining competitive team.

[ArgoZ]

It's called being a fan, and although not employed in the pro football industry most of us have been watching football long enough to recognize talent and good coaching and shockingly express these opinions.
Of course there are issues behind the scenes which factor into any teams decisions but all that matters to most fans is team success or at the very least an entertaining competitive team.

Of course there's nothing wrong with courteous discussion. It's the nasty, rude, be all, end all way posters have been coming across lately. So much goes on behind the scenes that it's inappropriate to call for someone's job over a decision or loss. Some are so highly critical, you often wonder if they are even a fan of this team. People like to complain I guess.

I can only speak for myself. I have been in a specific industry for 20 years now. If someone questioned everything I do (very harshly I might add), wanted me fired, and yet never worked a day in their life in my business, it would be hard to take them seriously.

Forums do tend to allow one to pound their chest more profoundly then they would in person. Maybe people are simply blowing off steam. It's sometimes hard to decipher on print. In person, I bet many of us would not talk as boldy as we do on here.

[Argo57]

Of course there's nothing wrong with courteous discussion. It's the nasty, rude, be all, end all way posters have been coming across lately. So much goes on behind the scenes that it's inappropriate to call for someone's job over a decision or loss. Some are so highly critical, you often wonder if they are even a fan of this team. People like to complain I guess.

I can only speak for myself. I have been in a specific industry for 20 years now. If someone questioned everything I do (very harshly I might add), wanted me fired, and yet never worked a day in their life in my business, it would be hard to take them seriously.

Forums do tend to allow one to pound their chest more profoundly then they would in person. Maybe people are simply blowing off steam. It's sometimes hard to decipher on print. In person, I bet many of us would not talk as boldy as we do on here.

You make some good points, sometimes we all get too worked up and the attacks get too personal.
In regards to calling for someone's job, professional sports is a results driven industry (no different than most of our jobs) if you asked Barker and Milanovich they would surely agree with this.
If things don't improve they will both be vulnerable at seasons end which is fair IMO, ownership owes it to their fanbase to provide both competitive and entertaining product on the field or attendance will suffer even more.

[Argo]

In regards to calling for someone's job, professional sports is a results driven industry (no different than most of our jobs) if you asked Barker and Milanovich they would surely agree with this.
If things don't improve they will both be vulnerable at seasons end which is fair IMO, ownership owes it to their fanbase to provide both competitive and entertaining product on the field or attendance will suffer even more.

True, and we cannot forget that this is an entertainment product. If the fans are not feeling entertained they have every right to bitch and moan, or simply look to get their kicks elsewhere. Then the bitching and moaning would be sorely missed.

[Ron]

Early in the yea it looked to me that the new owner group was using this season to gauge just what the core audience is. They didn't go all out on selling season seats or game tickets. Looks like they saw this as a multi decade ownership and wanted to learn for themselves.

But they also did push some sales that have been a success. Even with small crowds the tailgate lots have sold out. The perception of the gameday culture has changed since even a neighbour of mine (not a sports fan) knows that they have a big tailgate before Argo games.

They learned at the first CNE game that the CNE isn't enough of a hook yet to get fans to buy. So in game two they pay back season ticket and access members with freebees. (To get people out to a game with a bonus CNE admission ... win win)

It'll take time. But to think the brass aren't watching and looking at every minor detail would be inconceivable. But the biggest question will be how the team markets itself next season and whether they take for granted that the GC win this year will sell tickets for next year.

[Gill The Thrill]

The Argos had a good receiving corps back in the late 1980's, but there was a transition from Paul Pearson to Paul Masotti that took a few years. I think he was more or less in the "Starting 4" by 1989-1990 though.

He split time in 1990 and 1991 with another Canadian slotback, Andrew Murray

He may have been in '89 but he wasn't in '88. They gave him time to develop that '88 season after being released by the Redskins. IIRC, Dwight Edwards was still ahead of him in the pecking order of receivers.

True

Masotti definitely played very little in 1988. In 1989 he started to see action, catching 31 passes (less than two per game). It wasn't until 1994 -- his seventh season -- that he became a really significant factor in the offence.


Yr Team C Yds Avg Lg TD
1988 Tor 2 50 25.0 33 1
1989 Tor 31 443 14.3 55 4
1990 Tor 37 592 16.0 60 5
1991 Tor 23 360 0.0 36 2
1992 Tor 44 801 18.2 45 2
1993 Tor 36 606 16.8 72 3
1994 Tor 67 1,280 19.1 67 9
1995 Tor 70 1,336 19.1 80 3
1996 Tor 73 1,023 14.0 97 7
1997 Tor 77 1,011 13.1 51 5
1998 Tor 66 897 13.6 66 2
1999 Tor 30 373

Started really being noticeable in 1992, taking on a full-time role at slotback gaining over 800 yds. He was the leading Argo receiver in 1993 and was well on his way to his first 1000+ yd season until he was injured in a game vs the Sacramento Goldminers at Skydome.