Argo players of the past that you regret the team getting rid of.

[OV Argo]

All your roster ideas finally make sense. Actually winning a championship is not as valuable to you as having a player you like fill a roster spot.

Yeah - Pless never did much in his CFL career after the Argos gave him away; just an average joe filling a roster spot. The Argos also gave up Jerald Baylis, Emanuel Tolbert, Tony Visco, Todd Wiseman and QB Rick Johnson in that trade to get Dunigan.

Oh boy, winning one GC in an 8 or 9 team league - such a rare feat - I'd do anything to get a QB who might help win a "championship" - hell trade the whole team now for Collaros or Kevin Glenn.

[OV Argo]

Sad to see some long serving Argo greats go on to other teams - at the end of their careers where they don't have that much left perhaps - Mookie Mitchell, Kevin Eiben , Chad Owens for example - that's one thing. It's another thing entirely to trade away a player just entering the prime of his career who is a league best talent and who goes on to absolutely star or dominate in the league for a decade or so after you gave him away - eg. Willie Pless

[AngeloV]

Yah, one of my favourite Argos all-time, Kevin Eiben, should have finished his career in double blue.
Seeing him in Ti-Cats black and yellow was awful.

You're right. He should have finished his career as an Argo, but rather than retire when he should have, he went to Hamilton when he was no longer a good player. IIRC, he wasn't a starter for long there. It reminded me of when Ben Zambiasi, who was a great Ti-Cat couldn't accept the fact that he was no longer a good MLB, and finished his career with the Argos. I think this happens a lot between the 2 teams, because players at this stage in their careers don't have to relocate their families.

[Argo57]

Plus we often see guys players lights out until they have a NFL tryout or two. When they come back they are half the player unless they go to another CFL team and thrive. Didn't Darryl Ford hit Detroit for a bit and wasn't the same afterwards. I'm sure it was him.

I'd like to see more Argos like Masotti, Pinball and Moen start and play their whole CFL careers with us. I really hate when guys leave for a year or two near the end of their careers to another team. Saskatchewan is a great example as Jones cleared house and they suck and players he ditched can still play. Nice to see Chick haunt them last week even though his a Ticat.

Same guy argoholic Ford played with the Detroit Lions.

[Argo57]

The problem was the stupid decision to let Dunigan walk after the 1991 season in favor of Rickey Foggie. That move set the Argos back four years and contributed to the downward spiral of the team's off-field fortunes in Toronto. Yes, Pless was an all-time linebacker, but the Argos actually filled that void nicely for several season with Darryl Ford, Chris Gaines and Don Moen. But, Gaines decided to retire after the 1991 season, I don't know what happened to Ford and Don Moen was heading towards the twilight of his career.

I remember Pless playing in his first pre-season game for the Argos, immediately you knew he was something special.
Smaller guy who could really move well and a tackling machine on top of that.
Agree with AF87, the stupid move was not retaining Dunigan's services for longer tenure.
Another guy I really liked was Sam Mills who tried out for the Argonauts in 1982 and despite playing very well was cut, loved O'Billovich but he was capable of making some head scratching personnel decisions at times, Mills went on to play in the USFL and starred for many years in the NFL with New Orleans and Carolina.
He sadly passed away from cancer a few years ago.

[ArgoZ]

You're right. He should have finished his career as an Argo, but rather than retire when he should have, he went to Hamilton when he was no longer a good player. IIRC, he wasn't a starter for long there. It reminded me of when Ben Zambiasi, who was a great Ti-Cat couldn't accept the fact that he was no longer a good MLB, and finished his career with the Argos. I think this happens a lot between the 2 teams, because players at this stage in their careers don't have to relocate their families.

It's a unique situation with the Argos and Cats. As I mentioned once before, I could probably count close to 100 players that have switched sides from one season to another. You don't see that kind of shared turnover in many other leagues.

[paulwoods13]

I remember Pless playing in his first pre-season game for the Argos, immediately you knew he was something special.
Smaller guy who could really move well and a tackling machine on top of that.
Agree with AF87, the stupid move was not retaining Dunigan's services for longer tenure.
Another guy I really liked was Sam Mills who tried out for the Argonauts in 1982 and despite playing very well was cut, loved O'Billovich but he was capable of making some head scratching personnel decisions at times, Mills went on to play in the USFL and starred for many years in the NFL with New Orleans and Carolina.
He sadly passed away from cancer a few years ago.

Are you saying you actually noticed Mills during his Argo preseason and wanted him to be kept? If so, you would have been one of an extremely small group. I paid an absurd amount of attention to the roster back then, getting the (fat) preseason prospectuses and going to home preseason games. And I have no recollection of Mills as an Argo other than knowing he was one for a few weeks.

[Argo57]

Are you saying you actually noticed Mills during his Argo preseason and wanted him to be kept? If so, you would have been one of an extremely small group. I paid an absurd amount of attention to the roster back then, getting the (fat) preseason prospectuses and going to home preseason games. And I have no recollection of Mills as an Argo other than knowing he was one for a few weeks.

Wouldnt have posted this if I didn't notice him.
I remember my father noticing him as well, I was a 17 year old kid obsessed with the Argonauts keenly interested in the team and any new players playing in their pre-season games.
My father and I didn't miss a game from 1982 thru 1986, loved seeing the new players in pre season and trying to predict who would make the team each year.
Incredible, maybe some keen young kid just watching his team noticed something that you didn't.
I had the thin preseason prospectuses.......it's called a game program.

[PullTogether73]

Oh boy, winning one GC in an 8 or 9 team league - such a rare feat - I'd do anything to get a QB who might help win a "championship" - hell trade the whole team now for Collaros or Kevin Glenn.

Okay, if winning a championship isn't the goal for you, what is?

As for the winning in an 8 or 9 team league...I trust you are not a Maple Leafs fan either.
In their oh-so-glorious history, they have NEVER won a championship in a league with more than 8 teams (and most of them were in a 6 team league).

As for it not being a rare feat to win in an 8 or 9 team league, perhaps you should become a Roughriders fan. I'm sure they might have a different opinion.

[Jon Gonzo]

Are you saying you actually noticed Mills during his Argo preseason and wanted him to be kept? If so, you would have been one of an extremely small group. I paid an absurd amount of attention to the roster back then, getting the (fat) preseason prospectuses and going to home preseason games. And I have no recollection of Mills as an Argo other than knowing he was one for a few weeks.

I also remember the huge Training Camp that Sam Mills had, as I studied this team like an Argo Nerd through this era especially. I remember the surprise when Mills didn't make the team. I vaguely recall a 10 tackle PS game, and that Pete Martin was big on this guy. I think it was John Pointer who beat Mills out ultimately. The Argos were a good team then so not many people questioned OB. He took em to the Grey Cup. I think after Pointer, the team settled on Darrell Nicholson, and that group went on and got us our first Grey Cup in 30 years.

We all remember that parade, don't we? (;

[Argo57]

I also remember the huge Training Camp that Sam Mills had, as I studied this team like an Argo Nerd through this era especially. I remember the surprise when Mills didn't make the team. I vaguely recall a 10 tackle PS game, and that Pete Martin was big on this guy. I think it was John Pointer who beat Mills out ultimately. The Argos were a good team then so not many people questioned OB. He took em to the Grey Cup. I think after Pointer, the team settled on Darrell Nicholson, and that group went on and got us our first Grey Cup in 30 years.

We all remember that parade, don't we? (;

LOL Gonzo, I guess that makes two of us who remembered Mills, I wish there was more kids obsessed with the Argos like we were back in those days!!
You are indeed correct Jon, Pointer in 82, Nicholson in 83.
I remember Nicholson being dealt to Calgary a year or two later.
I followed Mills career pretty closely after him being cut by the Argonauts always fascinated that O'Billovich cut him loose and his subsequent success down south.
Argos had some good linebackers come and go during this era, William Mitchell was another good one and of course Don Moen.

[Jon Gonzo]

LOL Gonzo, I guess that makes two of us who remembered Mills, I wish there was more kids obsessed with the Argos like we were back in those days!!
You are indeed correct Jon, Pointer in 82, Nicholson in 83.
I remember Nicholson being dealt to Calgary a year or two later.
I followed Mills career pretty closely after him being cut by the Argonauts always fascinated that O'Billovich cut him loose and his subsequent success down south.
Argos had some good linebackers come and go during this era, William Mitchell was another good one and of course Don Moen.

Yeah Moen arrived at a good time to be an Argo Fan. He was very steady, didn't miss a tackle, was an ironman, and could shed a block very well. But he was also lucky to line up beside some great MLBs. As we have discussed; Pointer, Mills, Nicholson and William Mitchell. And as you point out, the streak that came thereafter. Moen got to play with Willie Pless, Tank Landry, Chris Gaines, and Ken Benson. That didn't hurt.

[argoscott]

Most recently Michael Bishop, Arlen Bruce.... Matt Dunigan a number of years ago... And if you dont like my comments go pss up a stump

I add that last only because I am sick and tired of being TRASHED anytime I mention Michael Bishop, am sick of the lies about him, he really has been the mosr exciting Argo QB sin ce Doug Flutie, and Flutie would quickly add that he could not throw like Bishop, Dunigan has admitted same Though Dunigan was close

[AngeloV]

Most recently Michael Bishop, Arlen Bruce.... Matt Dunigan a number of years ago... And if you dont like my comments go pss up a stump

I add that last only because I am sick and tired of being TRASHED anytime I mention Michael Bishop, am sick of the lies about him, he really has been the mosr exciting Argo QB sin ce Doug Flutie, and Flutie would quickly add that he could not throw like Bishop, Dunigan has admitted same Though Dunigan was close

Flutie and Dunnigan's TD to INT ratio in comparison to Bishop's show why Bishop moved so often. I agree, he was exciting and had tons of potential, but he never lived up to that potential.

[argoscott]

Flutie and Dunnigan's TD to INT ratio in comparison to Bishop's show why Bishop moved so often. I agree, he was exciting and had tons of potential, but he never lived up to that potential.

He lived up to it in 2007, his team mates loved him and wanted him to return as the starter in 2008 as well as Stubler , who basically lost his job over standing with the QB he wanted. Joseph said publicly after he was finally released, that it was Bishop`s team... we will never know what would have happened had Pinball not decided to go after Joseph

After that Sask in which he won right out the gate with no training camp and only a couple days under his belt won the first game. He had great games in Sask, a poorly run team, when they won it was a team effort, but when they lost it was all Bishop`s fault

Then Bish went to the Circus in Winnipeg, again no training camp , flown in and wins right out the gate, with less than a week practice, under the drugged out coach, names slip my mind, had some of his best games ever regardless with Winnipeg, one game in particular were Bish threw three td passes in the first half, with Dunigan in AWE saying...when this guy is on he is amazing

but again was the scapegoat for all their losses.

[AngeloV]

He lived up to it in 2007, his team mates loved him and wanted him to return as the starter in 2008 as well as Stubler , who basically lost his job over standing with the QB he wanted. Joseph said publicly after he was finally released, that it was Bishop`s team... we will never know what would have happened had Pinball not decided to go after Joseph

After that Sask in which he won right out the gate with no training camp and only a couple days under his belt won the first game. He had great games in Sask, a poorly run team, when they won it was a team effort, but when they lost it was all Bishop`s fault

Then Bish went to the Circus in Winnipeg, again no training camp , flown in and wins right out the gate, with less than a week practice, under the drugged out coach, names slip my mind, had some of his best games ever regardless with Winnipeg, one game in particular were Bish threw three td passes in the first half, with Dunigan in AWE saying...when this guy is on he is amazing

but again was the scapegoat for all their losses.

He also crapped the bed in the 2007 Eastern Final against Winnipeg--who played a good portion of that game with Ryan Dinwidde at QB. This was likely the reason they felt the need to go for Joseph, which in retrospect, was also not a wise move. Bishop was horrible in that game.

For the record, I was one of about 4 or 5 guys on here that supported Bishop as the team's QB. But how long were the Argos supposed to wait for him to emerge? He was here for 6 seasons so it's not like he wasn't given an opportunity. He just never fully took advantage of it.

[R.J]

I also wanted to see Bishop start over Joseph, but for whatever reason Bishop never took the reins, so it is what it is.

Also, Bishop was not the scapegoat in Winnipeg. All of Winnipeg's issues lay at the feet of Mike Kelly. Most fans were happy to see Bishop when he was brought it, while Bishop's play was frustrating at times, he was better than Lefors and the system Kelly was running, which Kelly tweaked with the arrival of Bishop.

[Ron]

Yeah - Pless never did much in his CFL career after the Argos gave him away; just an average joe filling a roster spot. The Argos also gave up Jerald Baylis, Emanuel Tolbert, Tony Visco, Todd Wiseman and QB Rick Johnson in that trade to get Dunigan.

Oh boy, winning one GC in an 8 or 9 team league - such a rare feat - I'd do anything to get a QB who might help win a "championship" - hell trade the whole team now for Collaros or Kevin Glenn.

So you accept I got it right that you choose players you like over teams winning championships. The strawman attempt failed.

As for Rare? You keep using that word but I do not think it means what you think it means.

As for how rare an event it was to actually win a Cup ... just how many Cups did the Argos win between 1954 and 1989? I'll give you a second to figure it out and just why any team may feel making a big move is worth it regardless of how some linebacker may play 5 years in the future. In the Argos case they made a move and got the championship. (Which you probably hated)

As for your hyperbole "Collaros and Glenn" reference ... I figure the vast vast vast majority of fans would make that trade if it resulted in a Grey Cup win. You OTOH stand alone as a dude that doesn't care if the team wins as long as the player you like has his spot.

[R.J]

As for Rare? You keep using that word but I do not think it means what you think it means.

LMAO!

[OV Argo]

So you accept I got it right that you choose players you like over teams winning championships. The strawman attempt failed.

As for Rare? You keep using that word but I do not think it means what you think it means.

As for how rare an event it was to actually win a Cup ... just how many Cups did the Argos win between 1954 and 1989? I'll give you a second to figure it out and just why any team may feel making a big move is worth it regardless of how some linebacker may play 5 years in the future. In the Argos case they made a move and got the championship. (Which you probably hated)

As for your hyperbole "Collaros and Glenn" reference ... I figure the vast vast vast majority of fans would make that trade if it resulted in a Grey Cup win. You OTOH stand alone as a dude that doesn't care if the team wins as long as the player you like has his spot.

You're totally clueless in your attempt to win some sort of grade 5 level debating class project.

I never said the Argos should not have traded for an all-time great QB in Dunigan - who helped them win one GC and then was gone shortly thereafer; I said they should NOT have included an all-time great CFL defensive player in Willie Pless in that deal - can you comprehend this??? - or maybe you can offer some absolute proof that the deal would never have happened if Pless was off the table there ? Yeah - i just hated the Argos winning the 91 GC with Dunigan - not a real true fan like you i guess - chump.