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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Argoknot View Post
    That's an interesting one because it's a combination of fact and myth. His on track exploits are obviously fact, the Hitler stuff, who knows.

    The following narrative always seemed to me to be closer to a logical truth

    Myths and Truth: Jesse Owens in Germany

    Hitler did shun a black American athlete at the 1936 Games. On the first day of the Olympics, just before Cornelius Johnson, an African-American athlete who won the first gold medal for the U.S. that day, was to receive his award, Hitler left the stadium early. (The Nazis later claimed it was a previously scheduled departure.)

    Prior to his departure, Hitler had received a number of winners, but Olympic officials informed the German leader that in the future he must receive all of the winners or none at all. After the first day, he opted to acknowledge none. Jesse Owens had his victories on the second day, when Hitler was no longer in attendance. Would Hitler have snubbed Owens had he been in the stadium on day two? Perhaps. But since he wasn't there, we can only surmise.

    Which brings us to another Olympic myth. It is often stated that Jesse Owens' four gold medals humiliated Hitler by proving to the world that Nazi claims of Aryan superiority were a lie. But Hitler and the Nazis were far from unhappy with the Olympic results. Not only did Germany win far more medals than any other country at the 1936 Olympics, but the Nazis had pulled off the huge public relations coup that Olympic opponents had predicted, casting Germany and the Nazis in a positive light. In the long run, Owens' victories turned out to be only a minor embarrassment for Nazi Germany.

    In fact, Jesse Owens' reception by the German public and the spectators in the Olympic stadium was warm. There were German cheers of “Yesseh Oh-vens” or just “Oh-vens” from the crowd. Owens was a true celebrity in Berlin, mobbed by autograph seekers to the point that he complained about all the attention. He later claimed that his reception in Berlin was greater than any other he had ever experienced, and he was quite popular even before the Olympics.

    “Hitler didn't snub me—it was [FDR] who snubbed me. The president didn't even send me a telegram.” ~Jesse Owens, quoted in Triumph, a book about the 1936 Olympics by Jeremy Schaap.

    I would say the Luz Long stuff is true as well because we have film evidence of it (and the above).



    Even more interesting, from Wikipedia: His achievement of setting three world records and tying another in less than an hour at the 1935 Big Ten track meet in Ann Arbor, Michigan, has been called "the greatest 45 minutes ever in sport" and has never been equalled.
    I (sincerely) appreciate the info on Owens you provided above.
    I always suspected that Owens treatment in his own country was likely almost as bad as anything he received while in Germany. Your reference seems to confirm it.
    And I see how you can comment that there is fact and myth in the Owens/Hitler story.
    Thanks again for this.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by GreyDragon View Post
    I (sincerely) appreciate the info on Owens you provided above. I always suspected that Owens treatment in his own country was likely almost as bad as anything he received while in Germany. Your reference seems to confirm it. And I see how you can comment that there is fact and myth in the Owens/Hitler story. Thanks again for this.
    No problem, a hundred years ago when I got out of the news biz I seriously considered getting a degree in sports history. Unfortunately IIRC the place where I had to do it was the University of Birmingham in England and I ain't British and didn't live there, so that idea soon went by the wayside.

    I love debunking myths and I have a saying that "things are often not as they seem" And by debunking myths, I don't believe in revisionism or conspiracy garbage, just the facts. They are usually far more interesting than any fairy tale.

  3. #23
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    Montreal's Forgotten Deadly Massacre
    37 people lost their lives
    Michael D'Alimonte mtlblog.com January 12, 2016

    So what does the above story have to do with this thread? Imagine if that happened today, 37 people dying in a fire in Montreal would dominate headlines for a week.

    Except this tragic story happened September 1, 1972, the day before the opening game of the Canada/Russia series. The twists and turns and upcoming drama of the series hadn't even started and yet the very anticipation of the series stole the spotlight from this enormously tragic event.

  4. #24
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    This is one of my favourite Canadian sporting moments and up there in the Mount Rushmore (pardon the expression) of greatest Canadian sporting moments. He did not one but three things that were never accomplished before in history and one of those (triple lutz) took the rest of the world 12 years to catch up to.

    This is a clip from the early days of ABC's Wide World of Sports and the best part is near the end when Jim MacKay and Dick Button excitedly announce the marks. Oh yeah, Jackson utters the immortal "I'm glad I could do it for Canada" just to make it all the sweeter.


  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by GreyDragon View Post
    I (sincerely) appreciate the info on Owens you provided above.
    I always suspected that Owens treatment in his own country was likely almost as bad as anything he received while in Germany. Your reference seems to confirm it.
    And I see how you can comment that there is fact and myth in the Owens/Hitler story.
    Thanks again for this.
    Owens was treated far better in Germany than at home.

    For the 2 weeks of the games Owens was the biggest story in Germany. Headlining all the media and for the first (and only) time pushing Hitler off the front page. German's couldn't get enough of him. Heck, if you watch the 100 race it's a German runner who's first to congratulate him. There's always a little myth involved as propaganda tends to work both ways.


  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ron View Post
    Case closed.

    CFL 1995: Calgary Stampeders vs Toronto Argonauts in the last game of the season. No game in history has had a greater impact to Canadian Culture.
    The game that saved this great country!
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  7. #27
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    I'd say that the greatest sporting event in history was Alan Shepard hitting a couple of golf balls on the Moon in 1971. Events on Earth may be more competitive, but they're also a lot easier.

  8. #28
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    This is a really good discussion about the importance of 72. Can't believe I actually agree with Bruce Dowbiggin whom I loathe for his long standing personal vendetta against Don Cherry. Dowbiggin paints the picture of how we were a different country in 72 which is what I wanted to say here and didn't earlier. The closing minutes make it clear why it was the greatest sports event in Canadian history.



    Last edited by Argoknot; 08-31-2016 at 05:49 AM.

  9. #29
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    The importance of 72 is lost on how long ago it was. Anyone under 50 years old, really has no personal significance attached to the series, which includes most of today's sports media. The series had more political and historic significance than a "greatest" sporting event. Looking back at the players and format, it probably would be viewed as an below average tournament, had it happened today. Reading everyone's thoughts on this years World Cup of hockey proves that.

  10. #30
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    Of course the signifigance is lost on those who didn't witness it and I usually find it hard to read what they say as having much value aside from an opinion. But the catch is, I did see it and every event that followed and it damn near was on the level of 9-11 in its own way. No other event was close to being like that.

    The PC warriors judge Bobby Clarke but as Bruce Dowbiggin said above (and remember I never agree with him) in 1972 if they took a poll when Bobby Clarke raised his stick the vast majority would have said "Hit 'em". People forget (or don't know) how different the country was then.

    One other topic I have some interest in is the JFK assassination. Like 72, it came before 9-11 and thus had a greater affect. As big as 9-11 was there were people who had experienced a similar shock before but in the case of JFK it came first in the TV age (when TV really came of age). Pearl Harbor was a massive shock but it wasn't on TV screens so the shared experience wasn't as significant.

    An interesting comment about the Kennedy Assassination and one I think has validity is that the 50's ended when JFK was assassinated (1963)

    Anyway, don't take my word for it, watch the TVO video and read the Bill Brioux article, as he said it was our "moon landing' and Paul Henderson was our Neil Armstrong (not the Eskimo coach)
    Last edited by Argoknot; 09-02-2016 at 05:03 AM.

  11. #31
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    Peter Mahovlich was never more proud to be Canadian than after 1972 Summit Series
    Stu Cowan, Montreal Gazette September 3, 2016

    Peter Mahovlich has lived in the United States for the last 30-plus years, but is still a very, very proud Canadian.

    And the former Canadiens centre, now 69, was never more proud than after the 1972 Summit Series against the Soviet Union. Mahovlich scored one of the most memorable goals of that eight-game series — a short-handed effort — in Game 2 in Toronto as Canada beat the Soviets 4-1 after a stunning 7-3 loss in Game 1 at the Montreal Forum.



    Friday marked the 44th anniversary of that Game 1 loss that shocked the country and Mahovlich was back in town at Place des Arts to take part in the ’72 Summit Series Tour that is travelling across Canada with players sharing their stories from that historic event with fans. Mahovlich was to be joined by Serge Savard, Ken Dryden, Yvan Cournoyer, Phil Esposito, Dennis Hull, Bobby Clarke, Pat Stapleton and Team Canada coach Harry Sinden. There will be other stops in Winnipeg Sept. 6, Vancouver Sept. 8 and Toronto Sept. 10 to celebrate the Summit Series that Canada won 4-3-1 on “The Goal” by Paul Henderson with only 34 seconds remaining in the final game.

    Forty-four years have passed, but Mahovlich still remembers the feeling when Team Canada left the ice for the last time in Moscow.

    “Just looking up at the (Canadian) fans who were there,” Mahovlich recalled when the ’72 Summit Series Tour was announced earlier this year. “What we accomplished. Knowing the turmoil that we went through. I’ve seen pictures of it, but I’m just looking at the fans with my gloves up in the air … and I knew my mother was in the crowd. I don’t think we would have been able to accomplish what we did without the support of the Canadian people that sent us telegrams in Moscow.”

    Mahovlich’s parents had come to Canada from Yugoslavia, settling in Timmins, Ont., looking for a better life. Peter and older brother Frank were both part of Team Canada in 1972.

    “They were fairly well-to-do there for them,” Mahovlich said about his parents in Europe. “My father left his country, being a land owner and a farmer, to come over here, work 25 years in the mines because he knew it was a better life for his family.”

    Mahovlich remembers the Team Canada plane landing in Montreal and the players celebrating on a fire engine. He saw Prime Minister Pierre Trudeau and pulled him up to enjoy the moment with them. Mahovlich thinks it’s cool that Trudeau’s son, Justin, is now Prime Minister. Mahovlich, who now lives in Queensbury, N.Y., and is a pro scout for the Florida Panthers, said he’s not a political person, adding: “I’m a human being … I like helping other people.”

    “Everybody thinks (Justin) Trudeau’s too liberal right now, but he’s right,” Mahovlich said. “Let’s just keep inviting people in. It’s OK. We know that terrorism is going to affect us somewhere or somehow. But let’s not change the fact of who we are and what we are because of these idiots.”

    Canada is a melting pot and the Team Canada locker room was a bit like that before the Summit Series started. Back in 1972, NHLers really didn’t like — or even speak — to players from other teams. They were the enemies, unlike today when players change teams often and are NHLPA union brothers when commissioner Gary Bettman locks them out.

    “The culture of the league was such that you didn’t talk with players from other teams, even in the summertime,” Mahovlich said, adding that when the NHLers first met for a brief training camp in 1972 “it wasn’t Team Canada.”

    “It was a bunch of professional athletes from different teams,” he said. “Montreal Canadiens fans were Montreal Canadiens fans. They didn’t like Bobby Clarke, they didn’t like Phil Esposito. People don’t realize how that culture has changed through time because of all the international hockey that has been played by the pros since then.”

    But as the series continued and the pressure increased — with an entire country watching — the Team Canada players started to bond and would eventually become friends and teammates for life. Now they’re touring the country sharing their memories.

    The World Cup of Hockey starts this month in Toronto, but it will be nothing like that Summit Series 44 years ago when the two teams — and countries — hated each other. There will never be another hockey series like it.

    “When it’s all said and done, it’s about how proud it makes you feel to be a Canadian,” Mahovlich said. “We love our life, we love our lifestyle. Thank God I didn’t have to go to war. If you look at our history, when it was really, really bad and really tough, the first people to go in there were Canadians. French Canadians, English Canadians, it didn’t matter. Let’s get it done.

    “It’s always nice to be part of Canadian history in a sense. That you accomplished something.”

  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Argoknot View Post
    Peter Mahovlich was never more proud to be Canadian than after 1972 Summit Series
    S
    And the former Canadiens centre, now 69, was never more proud than after the 1972 Summit Series against the Soviet Union. Mahovlich scored one of the most memorable goals of that eight-game series — a short-handed effort — in Game 2 in Toronto
    Right in front of me. Here's another goal from that game.

    Attachment 792
    Faster + Louder = Better

  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by ArgoZ View Post
    The importance of 72 is lost on how long ago it was. Anyone under 50 years old, really has no personal significance attached to the series, which includes most of today's sports media. The series had more political and historic significance than a "greatest" sporting event. Looking back at the players and format, it probably would be viewed as an below average tournament, had it happened today. Reading everyone's thoughts on this years World Cup of hockey proves that.
    The 72 series was an amazing event, Canada against the "evil" Soviets.
    Most if not all of the best International players now play in the NHL and can be watched on a nightly basis, not so back then.
    No one had a clue about Tretiak, Yakushev, Kharlamov and the like and expected Team Canada to steamroll over them.
    As we all know didn't happen and in fact led to better training and coaching in North America. *Paul Henderson's overall hockey career doesn't warrant inclusion in the Hockey Hall of Fame but his scoring of this iconic goal should be duly honoured separately*
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  14. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by ArgoZ View Post
    The importance of 72 is lost on how long ago it was. Anyone under 50 years old, really has no personal significance attached to the series, which includes most of today's sports media. The series had more political and historic significance than a "greatest" sporting event.
    And let's not forget that by the time game 4 ended in Vancouver ... the country was totally against the team. (You'd think Milo and Barker ran the team) That team was considered the greatest embarrassment in sports history by many Canadians. (Cue Phil telling off Canadians!) The comeback they made was incredible in any time period considering the odds. (Just ask JP Parise about the odds LOL).

  15. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ron View Post
    And let's not forget that by the time game 4 ended in Vancouver ... the country was totally against the team.
    I get the point you're trying to make but I think against is the wrong word. Disappointed, let down, embarrassed, yes, but against, no. There were those in Vancouver who booed but I think that was for the reasons in the previous sentence and that they preferred the Soviet style to the style we had been playing to that point.

    The more in depth reading I have been doing on this subject lately, the more impressed I am with what we did and less with what the Soviets did (or in this case didn't do.) They didn't adapt to the changing game, Canada did. I see the Soviets great individual skills as something akin to Brazilian soccer ball juggling, great to look at, but does it put the ball in the net?

    There were two big myths about the series that were stated during and just after the series and then were dispelled, that I believe actually weren't myth but fact.

    The first is that we didn't do well because we weren't in shape. That was the original excuse and was later somewhat morphed into the Soviets just having better skills and being generally better. But the fact was we weren't in any kind of shape after three weeks of training camp to even skate beside a team that trained eleven months of the year. Most of the games (until game six) we started well and ran out of gas. By that time we had figured out their set plays (that they never changed) and were finally fit enough to enable us to break down their plays and use ours.

    The other excuse was that we weren't allowed to use WHA players which later morphed into (aside from Bobby Hull) they wouldn't have helped anyway. Bobby Hull, Gerry Cheevers, and JC Tremblay were all veterans invited for 72. In 1974, despite being two years older they were dominant versus the Soviets in the WHA series of 1974. Even though the WHA lost that series rather handily it was closer than people remember. The Soviets thought Cheevers was the best goalie they ever faced and they were amazed by Hull and Howe who were both excellent against them. In Tretiak's book he was very impressed by Tremblay. Had we have had Hull, Tremblay and Cheevers it would have been a different series, the poor fitness issue might have been lessened by those players who instinctively knew how to play the Russians. Where Dryden floundered in his first two games despite previous experience against them, Cheevers knew how to play them and his style fitted playing against them. I realize some will think that two years later those three players would have had a better "book" on the Soviets but those player's styles were a good match for the Russians as amazing was that of Howe.

    I will withhold judgment on Derek Sanderson who was also invited. People forget what a great player he was (especially defensively) as it was about this time that his career and lifestyle seemed to be going off the rails so who knows what might have happened with him if he had played.

  16. #36
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    Just when I thought I had heard just about everything on the subject, a new one (for me) comes along.

    Meet Karil Yugorov - aka Carl Watts
    The odd story of the Luzhniki P.A. Announcer

    They say there was 3000 Canadian fans (an approximate number) in Moscow in September 1972 to noisily cheer on Team Canada.

    Secretly, there was 3001.

    Public Address Announcer Karil Yugorov was one of the few Russians cheering for Team Canada, although no one knew it at the time.

    "It was one of the greatest moments of my life. It was unforgettable," said Yugorov. "I had been sitting on pins and needles before Henderson scored. I wasn't sure that Canada could score, but it was all I was hoping for."

    Canadians would never have suspected they had a secret ally in the P.A. announcer. Yugorov had upset Team Canada and the 3000 fans in the bleachers at various points in the games in Moscow. Under instruction he was forced to denounce, in English, Canada's rough play. This angered the fans and the players who skated by him and cursed him. And when the time clock failed to stop during a stoppage in play, the Canadians smashed their sticks against the glass in anger. Yugorov was forced to shrug as he was not in control of such matters.

    Canadians never would have suspected this Yugorov fellow as an ally. Even more far fetched would be the crazy notion that this Yugorov fellow was born as Carl Watts in Winnipeg and defected to the Soviet Union!

    Amazingly, it is a true and weird story. We always heard of Eastern Europeans defecting from their countries to come to the west. But we never heard of the opposite happening.

    Watts was born and raised on a small farm in southern Manitoba, and later was an air cadet in Hamilton Ontario. He grew up listening to Foster Hewitt and idolizing the Toronto Maple Leafs, just like so many other Canadian boys of the era.

    He and his brother George decided to follow their parents to emigrate to Russia. His parents were originally from there. Both Carl and George changed their names and became famous broadcasters in Russia.

    Carl's dreams of the Soviet Union were soon turned into shock. It didn't long for him to realize what the government told people often wasn't the truth. And as a radio broadcaster he was often forced to be the messenger of such propaganda to the masses.

    "I will be very honest with you," he told Sun newspaper chain's Matthew Fisher. "I knew what I was reading was untrue and I felt very bad about it, but there was nothing I could ever do. I was told what to read and that was that. If I hadn't done so the least that would have happened is that I would have been fired. The most is that I could have spent my life behind bars."

    Yugorov and his family were barred from ever leaving the Soviet Union by the old communist regime.

    But he never regretted the move to Moscow. Karil, who is very proud of his Canadian background, met his wonderful wife and had a great son - the two highlights of his life. He still resides in Russia, though has returned to Canada on several occasions.

    Yugorov's son, Nikita, has followed in his grandfather's footsteps and left Moscow for Canada. At last report he was working and living in Montreal.

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    Wasn't Gerry Cheevers in goal for the 6-0 drubbing in the 1979 Challenge Cup at the hands of the Soviets? Did he really have them figured out or was he just too old by then?
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    I would vote for the 72 Summit Series as the greatest sporting event of all-time - just IMO of course, and it should be Captain Obvious that this purely subjective - i.e. there is no "truth" or righteous opinion here. 2 teams - continents apart - that had never faced each other in any way, play a tough, hard fought 7 game series that goes down to the wire/last minute.

    And this is a Canadian / (Russian) thing. Americans would have no clue / wouldn't get this at all - a lot of them think the Super Bowl winners are "World Champs" = pompous, clueless, ignorant clowns. Some sports are competed for in a lot of places in the world - soccer for sure, hockey, basketball, baseball.

    NO Olympic event - no matter how great a single athletic performance - can IMO compare to a 7 game series in a team sport with 20 some or more players on each roster. The Olympics reward system is a joke to me: a swimmer can win something like 7 medals in brief, ultra limited events, but an entire team (soccer, hockey, etc.) can go thru an entire tournament / multiple games to beat all others and gets rewarded with ONE medal ? - total farce. A runner winning gold in the 100, 200, 400, relay, 1500 and the marathon - now that would be something. ;o)

    Team sports - easily, IMO - trump all single competitor sporting competitions. End of story !!!



    Canadian football - with 12 men per side / 24 players on the field at one time (27 or so different positions in all counting offence, defence and special teams), played on about the largest playing surface possible = the ultimate - toughest, most complex - team sport (IMO / that is all ;o) )

    The Grey Cup is the greatest prize in sports in that regard AND it has been played for / in competition for over 100 years - (sorry Super Bowl, you arent even close).

    ; 7 game series to win a championship in a TEAM sport - like the Stanley Cup or World Series are the toughest to win sports prizes - IMO (so, sorry swimmer who won 5 Olympic medals, you ain't even on the same planet)
    Last edited by OV Argo; 09-06-2016 at 04:50 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Argoknot View Post
    I get the point you're trying to make but I think against is the wrong word. Disappointed, let down, embarrassed, yes, but against, no. There were those in Vancouver who booed but I think that was for the reasons in the previous sentence and that they preferred the Soviet style to the style we had been playing to that point.

    The more in depth reading I have been doing on this subject lately, the more impressed I am with what we did and less with what the Soviets did (or in this case didn't do.) They didn't adapt to the changing game, Canada did. I see the Soviets great individual skills as something akin to Brazilian soccer ball juggling, great to look at, but does it put the ball in the net?

    There were two big myths about the series that were stated during and just after the series and then were dispelled, that I believe actually weren't myth but fact.

    The first is that we didn't do well because we weren't in shape. That was the original excuse and was later somewhat morphed into the Soviets just having better skills and being generally better. But the fact was we weren't in any kind of shape after three weeks of training camp to even skate beside a team that trained eleven months of the year. Most of the games (until game six) we started well and ran out of gas. By that time we had figured out their set plays (that they never changed) and were finally fit enough to enable us to break down their plays and use ours.

    The other excuse was that we weren't allowed to use WHA players which later morphed into (aside from Bobby Hull) they wouldn't have helped anyway. Bobby Hull, Gerry Cheevers, and JC Tremblay were all veterans invited for 72. In 1974, despite being two years older they were dominant versus the Soviets in the WHA series of 1974. Even though the WHA lost that series rather handily it was closer than people remember. The Soviets thought Cheevers was the best goalie they ever faced and they were amazed by Hull and Howe who were both excellent against them. In Tretiak's book he was very impressed by Tremblay. Had we have had Hull, Tremblay and Cheevers it would have been a different series, the poor fitness issue might have been lessened by those players who instinctively knew how to play the Russians. Where Dryden floundered in his first two games despite previous experience against them, Cheevers knew how to play them and his style fitted playing against them. I realize some will think that two years later those three players would have had a better "book" on the Soviets but those player's styles were a good match for the Russians as amazing was that of Howe.

    I will withhold judgment on Derek Sanderson who was also invited. People forget what a great player he was (especially defensively) as it was about this time that his career and lifestyle seemed to be going off the rails so who knows what might have happened with him if he had played.

    Can't believe you are mentioning Tremblay or Cheevers but make no mention of freakin' Bobby Orr being unable to suit up for Canada in 72 (IMO they win the series handily i - maybe 8 straight - if Orr was there in his prime) ; Orr was arguably the greatest hockey talent ever - he played basically on one leg for Canada in 76 and was the Canada Cup MVP on a team Canada that was (arguably) quite a bit better than the 72 squad, and is considered by some (myself included) to be the best hockey team ever.

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    Quote Originally Posted by OV Argo View Post
    Can't believe you are mentioning Tremblay or Cheevers but make no mention of freakin' Bobby Orr being unable to suit up for Canada in 72 (IMO they win the series handily i - maybe 8 straight - if Orr was there in his prime) ; Orr was arguably the greatest hockey talent ever - he played basically on one leg for Canada in 76 and was the Canada Cup MVP on a team Canada that was (arguably) quite a bit better than the 72 squad, and is considered by some (myself included) to be the best hockey team ever.
    Good point OV, WHA players weren't included in the selection process either, I'd also include my personal favourite Bobby Hull into the equation as well.
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