The Greatest Sporting Event in History

[Argoknot]

Wasn't Gerry Cheevers in goal for the 6-0 drubbing in the 1979 Challenge Cup at the hands of the Soviets? Did he really have them figured out or was he just too old by then?

Yup, he was in goal for that game, he was 38 and universally regarded as the best "money" pressure goalie in the game. Unfortunately, in that game he (and his teammates) didn't help him live up to that moniker.

[Argoknot]

Orr was arguably the greatest hockey talent ever - he played basically on one leg for Canada in 76 and was the Canada Cup MVP on a team Canada that was (arguably) quite a bit better than the 72 squad, and is considered by some (myself included) to be the best hockey team ever.

You speak the gospel. I didn't mention Orr because he wasn't specifically excluded from the team and there was some hope he might have played in the series when they got to Moscow.

[Will]

Can't believe you are mentioning Tremblay or Cheevers but make no mention of freakin' Bobby Orr being unable to suit up for Canada in 72 (IMO they win the series handily i - maybe 8 straight - if Orr was there in his prime) ; Orr was arguably the greatest hockey talent ever - he played basically on one leg for Canada in 76 and was the Canada Cup MVP on a team Canada that was (arguably) quite a bit better than the 72 squad, and is considered by some (myself included) to be the best hockey team ever.

I might put the '87 team as the best ever.

[OV Argo]

You speak the gospel. I didn't mention Orr because he wasn't specifically excluded from the team and there was some hope he might have played in the series when they got to Moscow.

Yes - Orr was injured.

Orr AND Bobby Hull on that 72 Team Canada and maybe they win that series quite handily - though the Russians may have shocked them for an early win or 2 with their different style play and far superior conditioning; Orr could control games - the Russians would not have had the puck near as much with Orr on the ice; and Hull was one of the all-time great goal scorers. Both those guys in their prime unable to suit up for Canada in 72 = incredible talent not there.

[OV Argo]

I might put the '87 team as the best ever.

Yeah, well - Gretzky & Lemieux were certainly an awesome 1-2 punch for the offence on that team; BUT - i have to disagree - the 76 team just had wayyyyy more overall talent/depth; and especially on defence - Orr, Potvin, plus the Montreal big 3 (Robinson, Savard, Lapointe).

I was around to watch (live on TV) all 3 of those teams (72, 767, 87) play every game in those series'. Great hockey; I wonder if the upcoming tournament can produce some comparable great hockey ?

[Argoknot]

Yeah, well - Gretzky & Lemieux were certainly an awesome 1-2 punch for the offence on that team; BUT - i have to disagree - the 76 team just had wayyyyy more overall talent/depth; and especially on defence - Orr, Potvin, plus the Montreal big 3 (Robinson, Savard, Lapointe)

Yup. By the time 87 came around we had learned how to play the Russians and that included the use of role players who could specialize. In 76 the stars were still playing the part of role players, Darryl Sittler, who was starting to come into his own wasn't sure he'd even make the team and expected to be a role player.

[Argoknot]

My take on Canadian international hockey
Best series - 1972
Best team - 1976 Canada Cup
Best hockey (on the ice) - 1987 Canada Cup

And of course the usual Canada/USSR score 6-5

[Argoknot]

Yes - Orr was injured.

Orr AND Bobby Hull on that 72 Team Canada and maybe they win that series quite handily - though the Russians may have shocked them for an early win or 2 with their different style play and far superior conditioning; Orr could control games - the Russians would not have had the puck near as much with Orr on the ice; and Hull was one of the all-time great goal scorers. Both those guys in their prime unable to suit up for Canada in 72 = incredible talent not there.

Orr is an interesting case because even though he practiced with the team and really wasn't near ready (re his knee) had his knee been declared ready I'm not sure how effective he would have been. This is all hypothetical of course but if you look at the pictures of him in Moscow he was in terrible condition (because he couldn't train properly). Had his knee finally been cleared (in Moscow) the question is could his hockey IQ overcome his poor conditioning, I don't know.

Hull was usually in good shape because of his work on the farm. One thing to ponder is if we had all those players it wasn't so much that they were so much better but that they would have replaced a player that wasn't as good. Had Tremblay played, Don Awrey or Rod Seiling might not have. Interesting to note that of the players who had played the Soviets previously, Dryden, Seiling, Berenson, Glennie (didn't play), they performed relatively poorly against them, so much for experience.

Ironically the best defensive pairing in the Canada training camp was Don Awrey and Rod Seiling.

[OV Argo]

Orr is an interesting case because even though he practiced with the team and really wasn't near ready (re his knee) had his knee been declared ready I'm not sure how effective he would have been. This is all hypothetical of course but if you look at the pictures of him in Moscow he was in terrible condition (because he couldn't train properly). Had his knee finally been cleared (in Moscow) the question is could his hockey IQ overcome his poor conditioning, I don't know.

Hull was usually in good shape because of his work on the farm. One thing to ponder is if we had all those players it wasn't so much that they were so much better but that they would have replaced a player that wasn't as good. Had Tremblay played, Don Awrey or Rod Seiling might not have. Interesting to note that of the players who had played the Soviets previously, Dryden, Seiling, Berenson, Glennie (didn't play), they performed relatively poorly against them, so much for experience.

Ironically the best defensive pairing in the Canada training camp was Don Awrey and Rod Seiling.

Disagree on Berenson - and he actually did play in at least one game in the series and i thought he was one of the best Canadian forwards; should have seen more ice time as should of Gilbert Perrault -both good skaters (Perrault could out-skate any of the Russians - he was that smooth & fast) who could handle the puck. Canada had too many NHL style players who could not move good enough against the speed of the Russians - defenceman like Awrey or Glennie did not match-up well; agreed that JC Tremblay - smaller but smooth skating & puck-handling defenceman - could have helped.

And we certainly don't know on Orr - even if his knee was not fully recovered, he may have been out of shape; Orr in his prime though would have made a HUGE difference - best player in the world - BOTH offensively and defensively (the Russians could not out skate Orr plus he could hit when needed)

[Argoknot]

Berenson played two games with one assist. He may have been more useful as an off ice scout providing insight viewing from the stands. He was quoted as saying after game 5 that he saw how the Canadians could beat the Soviets. That early coaching insight would show later in his career as a coach. Disagree on Perrault, yeah he had speed so did Kharlamov. Except Kharlamov had three or four major league moves to Perrault's one. The Russians figured him out pretty quickly which is why he barely played.

One interesting thing is the dietary habits of the teams. Neither had really figured that out yet. A standard pre game meal for an NHLer was a big steak, ice cream and a Coke this was before carb loading with pre game meals of pasta. The Soviets (with easy availability while in Canada) devoured Cokes. It's a wonder they could skate with that much sugar in their system, obviously they were able to burn it off easily being in such good condition.

Rick Noonan, Canadian trainer assisting the USSR: The Russians trained like crazy, but they loved their Coca-Cola. They would drink it all the time: morning, at practice, after games. I’d hand out a hundred and more bottles after practice.

[OV Argo]

Berenson played two games with one assist. He may have been more useful as an off ice scout providing insight viewing from the stands. He was quoted as saying after game 5 that he saw how the Canadians could beat the Soviets. That early coaching insight would show later in his career as a coach. Disagree on Perrault, yeah he had speed so did Kharlamov. Except Kharlamov had three or four major league moves to Perrault's one. The Russians figured him out pretty quickly which is why he barely played.

One interesting thing is the dietary habits of the teams. Neither had really figured that out yet. A standard pre game meal for an NHLer was a big steak, ice cream and a Coke this was before carb loading with pre game meals of pasta. The Soviets (with easy availability while in Canada) devoured Cokes. It's a wonder they could skate with that much sugar in their system, obviously they were able to burn it off easily being in such good condition.

Rick Noonan, Canadian trainer assisting the USSR: The Russians trained like crazy, but they loved their Coca-Cola. They would drink it all the time: morning, at practice, after games. I’d hand out a hundred and more bottles after practice.

Perrault was easily one of the best Canadian forwards in the games he played (2 points in the only 2 games he played) IMO and of course it is subjective - I'd suggest you rewatch the series some time if you haven't already; he didn't play as much because that coaching staff had more faith in older or more experienced NHLers (Bobby Clarke had a great NHL career and gained more notoriety in that series for his hack on Kharlamov, but he was useless or ineffective a lot of this series but they kept playing him regular shifts - Berenson or Perrault were far better skill centremen and would have done way better with regular playing time; a young Marcel Dionne was also on that Canada roster but did not get to play); sorry, but IMO skill players with speed like that would have done better against the Russians vs. NHL style grinders like Clarke or Parise who got to play lots.

[Argoknot]

Whoa, totally disagree with the above, Clarke was very effective, he centred Canada's best line in camp and during the series. It was basically the only line that stayed intact. It wasn't just speed why Henderson got those goals, he had room to maneuver courtesy of Clarke. Clarke had six points in eight games on the supposed "checking line"

The reason why guys didn't play was because they weren't useful to the overall effort. Parise and Cashman played because we had to play along the boards because we weren't yet in shape to play the Soviets straight up. That wasn't Berenson's or Perrault's game. Had there been no other options they might have played, unlike Park who had to play even though he wasn't very good until the last game.

I think it's also a myth about matching up with speed to beat the Soviets, sure it helps, but Esposito dominated them and in 74, 46 year old Gordie Howe was also very good against them. Howe was a good skater but he wasn't the fastest guy out there.

[Argoknot]

Berenson may have been more useful as an off ice scout providing insight viewing from the stands. He was quoted as saying after game 5 that he saw how the Canadians could beat the Soviets. That early coaching insight would show later in his career as a coach.

Eagleson: I’ll never forget, after we lost, (Game 5) in comes Red Berenson, who didn’t play. He says, “Guys, we can win this. Tonight, we showed we’re better than they are.” It was like somebody cut through a cloud and brought in sunshine. Everyone realized he was right.

[Argoknot]

Lest we forget what this thread is about

After Game Seven

Park: We brought the series to even. We were ecstatic. A few guys have called home by this time and we realize what’s going on. The entire nation is shutting down to watch the series.

[Argo57]

Yup. By the time 87 came around we had learned how to play the Russians and that included the use of role players who could specialize. In 76 the stars were still playing the part of role players, Darryl Sittler, who was starting to come into his own wasn't sure he'd even make the team and expected to be a role player.

We went and saw the final "Red White" team Canada selection game for the 76 Canada Cup (at the Montreal forum), what a thrill.
The 87 team was impressive however the overall depth and quality of that roster was off the charts.
Loved seeing another Maple Leaf (Sittler) score the big goal as Henderson had done 4 years earlier.

[Argo57]

Berenson played two games with one assist. He may have been more useful as an off ice scout providing insight viewing from the stands. He was quoted as saying after game 5 that he saw how the Canadians could beat the Soviets. That early coaching insight would show later in his career as a coach. Disagree on Perrault, yeah he had speed so did Kharlamov. Except Kharlamov had three or four major league moves to Perrault's one. The Russians figured him out pretty quicerkly which is why he barely played.

One interesting thing is the dietary habits of the teams. Neither had really figured that out yet. A standard pre game meal for an NHLer was a big steak, ice cream and a Coke this was before carb loading with pre game meals of pasta. The Soviets (with easy availability while in Canada) devoured Cokes. It's a wonder they could skate with that much sugar in their system, obviously they were able to burn it off easily being in such good condition.

Rick Noonan, Canadian trainer assisting the USSR: The Russians trained like crazy, but they loved their Coca-Cola. They would drink it all the time: morning, at practice, after games. I’d hand out a hundred and more bottles after practice.

You forgot the after dinner "cancer stick" which many pro athletes still participated in back then.

[ArgoGabe22]

Greatest (Canadian) individual performance? Donovan Bailey, Chuvalo going the distance against vs. Ali, Mike Weir winning the Masters? Pardon me if I've forgotten something.

[ArgoRavi]

Yeah, well - Gretzky & Lemieux were certainly an awesome 1-2 punch for the offence on that team; BUT - i have to disagree - the 76 team just had wayyyyy more overall talent/depth; and especially on defence - Orr, Potvin, plus the Montreal big 3 (Robinson, Savard, Lapointe).

I was around to watch (live on TV) all 3 of those teams (72, 767, 87) play every game in those series'. Great hockey; I wonder if the upcoming tournament can produce some comparable great hockey ?

I am not old enough to remember '72 but I agree with OV that the '76 teams was the best one ever for the reasons he has provided. Rogie Vachon was phenomenal in goal too and two Maple Leafs, Darryl Sittler and Lanny McDonald played pivotal roles.

[ArgoRavi]

You forgot the after dinner "cancer stick" which many pro athletes still participated in back then.

LOL! In the documentary about the 1971 Argos, the players were joking about having a smoke when they went into halftime of the Grey Cup.

[argolio]

LOL! In the documentary about the 1971 Argos, the players were joking about having a smoke when they went into halftime of the Grey Cup.

Guy Lafleur was known to do that during intermissions. I'm sure he wasn't the only one.

Times really have changed.