Oct. 10: Stampeders @ Argonauts

[argotom]

3 and 13 and Willy throws for 2 yards, you can't make this up.
Again why is he still in there.
Except it does not matter who is in there.

[Antwon]

This effort was so bad, it insures SM will not be back next year!

[jerrym]

Milanovich keeps playing Willy even after a hard hit in garbage time when he shows sign of being injured. We need more than a new qb.

[argosrule2415]

I didn't bother watching the 4th quarter. Another embarassing performance. So in order for us to continue our "slim" playoff hopes. The easiest way I can think of is for the Ti-Cats and Als to lose there remaining games, and for us to win out....too much to ask for?

[Will]

I cannot say that I was surprised by this afternoon's result. Calgary is (by and far) the best team in the league to be sure, however, what is much more disappointing is that one could expect this result right now against most teams in the league and not just the Stampeders.

[ArgoGabe22]

Both Argos TDs were scored from a short field after the BLM sack/fumble and the blocked punt. Other than that, offence didn't do much. They could've scored a TD on one of the FGs but poor play call/execution made them lose yards. Willy just can't march downfield and get a long drive going.

[DoubleBlue1873]

Lots of things went wrong in this game, but the biggest difference was on both sides of the line. Calgary O-line (avg size 330 lbs) simply manhandled our D-line, creating huge gaps for Messam to gain momentum and ensure little pass rush. And Calgary D-line had Willy under pressure or sacked for most of the game. Hard to blame Willy when he doesn't fully grasp the offense yet and doesn't get time to make his reads. Even Whitaker was completely smothered, another indication of how good this Calgary team really is.

Bottom line: this Calgary team is as good as we've seen in a generation. They are dominant in all three phases and have enough depth to plug any holes (unlike the Argos). They do have a tendency to build up leads and then let off, but that sure didn't happen today. I am impressed.

I don't even know what to say about the Argos...

[KCargosfan]

Gordon needs to be cut after whatever that was he was doing on an "attempted" tackle. Simply awful.

[paulwoods13]

I agree we got manhandled up front. There's no point even trying to judge our quarterbacking until we get someone who can pass-block.

I've been a big supporter of Barker (and Milanovich) but his off-season moves -- other than the draft, which looks promising -- mostly turned out badly. Signed Bourke (benched/injured), Bulcke (cut), Watman (benched), Raymond (cut) in free agency, and let Owens walk. The latter was understandable and defensible at the time, with Spencer here as a replacement and no way of knowing the Big Three would end up cut because of attitude issues. But the other moves were all mistakes (except the signing of Hajrillahu), unless Bourke returns and comes back ready to play next year. The one thing that Barker has in his favour is the draft. Six guys we drafted this year dressed today, which is just about unheard of. But two of them (Sackey and Campbell) have not played yet, Newton is just a special teamer and I doubt Cross will develop into a regular on offence. If the two o-linemen develop into starters and Noel and Jones play up to their potential, it stands to be a good if not excellent draft.

[Nob]

Good thing, Paul, because with this crappy year we will have a high draft choice.............what's that....????........never mind.....

But at least there is good Canadian depth. Losing out on the first round pick won't hurt that much. There are many other areas of concern. The first will be fan apathy.

[OV Argo]

Based on today (glaring evidence) and most of the season - both lines need to be re-built IMO.

Messam ran untouched thru the middle often; disappointed in Hall who i thought was quite good at times for the Ticats last season; and Bishop is next to useless at times IMO - can\t for the life of me figure why he keeps getting to play; Bulcke cut after one game made zero sense IMO; and maybe Waud is hurt/nicked and can't play, but not sure that is the case ? - maybe he gets a shot late this season or next year. But - bring in plenty of new talent for D-line competition next TC - new imports, known FAs that may be available, and there are IMO a few good looking DT prospects for next draft (oops, no 1st rounder as of now); Lemon may be a keeper as a starter at DE, but another good DE is needed as well (Foley maybe done?; Hickman not exactly lighting it up this year and not exactly young either)

O-line needs upgrades too IMO; maybe McEwen continues to develop into a stalwart at C; but after that - all jobs could/should be up for grabs - Bourke has lots of mileage, but some all-time great O-lineman have played strong well into their 30s = maybe he could bounce back, and with some offensive coaches who have some brains helping; bring in plenty of TC competition there - again, new imports or a known vet FA; maybe draft picks like Sackey or Campbell develop into starters? - hope so, but their college ball resumes are pretty limited IMO; there are some good O-Line prospects pretty well every draft IMO.


Then, there's the D-backfield, ... and linebackers (hope Greenwood can return) and the QB situation, and ... on & on. ;o)

[Shatto]

So where should the blame for this debacle called a football season be placed? First and foremost at the feet of the coaching staff! If, as some are stating, the players are not good enough, we have to remember, it was the coaching staff that choose these players. Too many times the opposition has marched downfield for TD's on their first possession---this clearly demonstrates the team was not adequately prepared. Stubler looks lost and so do the defenses he puts on the field. Against a very good Stamps O line, Stubler was playing only 3 down linemen and sometimes only 1 true LB. Against this questionable lineup, Messem as could be expected, had a field day. As for Milanovich, he gambled that Willy was worth a 1st and 4th round draft choice and their best D back. There was a reason why the Peg gave up on Willy, as it is becomes painfully obvious, he is not a first string QB. Unless Willy makes a miraculous metamorphosis into a real QB, over the next 3 games, Milanovich's gamble may well have cost him is job.
On a positive note, rookie Canadian receiver, Jones, looked good in his first start and ------the tailgating was enjoyable again.

[KCargosfan]

I've been a big supporter of Barker (and Milanovich) but his off-season moves -- other than the draft, which looks promising -- mostly turned out badly. Signed Bourke (benched/injured), Bulcke (cut), Watman (benched), Raymond (cut) in free agency, and let Owens walk. The latter was understandable and defensible at the time, with Spencer here as a replacement and no way of knowing the Big Three would end up cut because of attitude issues. But the other moves were all mistakes (except the signing of Hajrillahu), unless Bourke returns and comes back ready to play next year. The one thing that Barker has in his favour is the draft. Six guys we drafted this year dressed today, which is just about unheard of. But two of them (Sackey and Campbell) have not played yet, Newton is just a special teamer and I doubt Cross will develop into a regular on offence. If the two o-linemen develop into starters and Noel and Jones play up to their potential, it stands to be a good if not excellent draft.

I also have been a big supporter of Barker and Milanovich, but the main thing they whiffed on is Ray at quarterback. They gambled Ray could stay healthy, and hindsight is 20/20, but it was an extremely poor decision, and one that likely costs them their jobs. They should have locked up Trevor Harris for at least a year, said "you're the starter," and offered Ray back-up money. In the CFL you have to have 2 quarterbacks (see: the West division) or get lucky with a game manager like Winnipeg is with Matt Nichols and hope your defense or special teams comes up with a score.

And I'm not a huge fan of Trevor Harris, but that was basically the option at the time.

Also, I'm not saying I was thinking this at the time.

It's sad that once we get steady ownership, everything basically falls apart for Barker and Milanovich. What they did under Braley was pretty amazing.

[ArgoRavi]

Lots of things went wrong in this game, but the biggest difference was on both sides of the line. Calgary O-line (avg size 330 lbs) simply manhandled our D-line, creating huge gaps for Messam to gain momentum and ensure little pass rush. And Calgary D-line had Willy under pressure or sacked for most of the game. Hard to blame Willy when he doesn't fully grasp the offense yet and doesn't get time to make his reads. Even Whitaker was completely smothered, another indication of how good this Calgary team really is.

Bottom line: this Calgary team is as good as we've seen in a generation. They are dominant in all three phases and have enough depth to plug any holes (unlike the Argos). They do have a tendency to build up leads and then let off, but that sure didn't happen today. I am impressed.

I don't even know what to say about the Argos...

Well said! I know that everyone wants to beat up on Drew Willy but what the hell was he supposed to do behind that offensive line today? I said earlier in this thread that the o-line seemed to be better over the past month but they were absolutely awful today.

[mchesher03]

several of our players were a little too concerned with their feelings getting hurt by boo'ing, etc. In the middle of getting shellacked like that, I think it's asinine for players to do anything but put your head down and soldier through it. The fans (myself included) have pretty good reasons to be uphappy. That said, what was up with Thomas Gordon's tackling "effort" on the 2nd TD (I believe). The DB tried to make a play on the ball and missed (another error but the effort appeared to be there) but that "tackle" attempt by Gordon was shameful.

tailgating was fun at least. after the debacle in Montreal I don't have the same worries about games - this is not a playoff team by any stretch. Also, that Stamps team is very, very good. I'd be very surprised not to see them in the Grey Cup.

[Argo]

Well said! I know that everyone wants to beat up on Drew Willy but what the hell was he supposed to do behind that offensive line today? I said earlier in this thread that the o-line seemed to be better over the past month but they were absolutely awful today.

Yes, the offensive line seemed to be better... when LeFevour was playing.

Of course, now that Willy is starting "there's no point even trying to judge our quarterbacking". Quel changement.

[1971GreyCup]

Wasn't setting up in the pocket behind this O line that got Ricky Ray hurt? Dan LeFevour with all his faults had some success with his mobility. I guess both Logan and LeFevour had one successful game, before the opposition had some film and could quickly adjusted and shutdown the Argo adjustments.

[doubleblue]

Good observations by PW, OV, Shatto, KC and others. I was just looking at the players that have moved on or been moved in the last couple of years. Many of them are still in the League with some in the NFL, but IMO they haven't been replaced with the same calibre of player on the field.
Except for Lemon who on the D-Line would you want back. At LBer who beside Greenwood. At DB who beside Jefferson and Gabriel. (I'm talking starters)
Waud and Miles are good Canadian kids with a future IMO.
I was on record at the start of the season that with Ricky Ray at QB the O-Line was a high priority and a big tough RB to help protect Ricky. All one has to do is look at Calgary's O-Line and a back like Messam. It works.
So who on the O-Line should be kept? I think we're ok at Center for a while (he might head home in a couple of years). Bourke has been an all star and he isn't that old for an O-Lineman, but, one could get a young cheaper Import just as good IMO. Holmes, bit of disappointment, but could look better beside a big tough Tackle and McEwen improving with playing time. RG, Watman? maybe a backup for center and guard. Smith is about done. Good place to bring in a 6'3-4 320 lber or move Van Zeyl over. RT needs upgrading IMO. The two young Canadians Sackey and Campbell might figure in but they may be another year a way from starting.
Good to see the two young receivers Jones and Noel start to get some playing time. Most teams are going that way, using two receiver spots for the ratio. They were also high on the other Junior player Williams who has size and speed and has spent the year on the PR learning. I thought we were set for a few years at WR/SB but that has changed big time.
RB? Whitaker would have been a good 1-2 punch the last couple of years, but there wasn't any #2 in the punch. When they do start another guy he's another pony back, go figure. I of course will always like to see a real FB who can be a difference maker and no OV, Dupuis isn't that guy. Good back up and STer only. Somebody like Messam or Mike Sellers. But I know it will never happen under Milanovich.
QB position. Ugh. I've said enough on that fiasco. But something needs to change there.

[Wobbler]

It seems pretty obvious that we have several different problems. It's not all the OL's fault, it's not all Willy's fault, it's not all our RC's fault, and it's not all coaching. Untangling this mess is a job for the off-season; all we can do now is identify the key guys we want to build around for next year. The jury is still out on Willy, I think.

[paulwoods13]

Untangling this mess is a job for the off-season; all we can do now is identify the key guys we want to build around for next year. The jury is still out on Willy, I think.

Key components to build around, in no particular order: McEwen, Campbell, Sackey, Jones, Noel, Coombs, Dupuis, Hajrillahu, Reinhart, Waud, Walker, Greenwood, Miles, Gabriel; Shaw, Spencer, Wylie, Lemon, McFadden (if he stays healthy for a change), Jefferson, Fajardo. No idea who should be the starting QB but I'm confident it won't be LeFevour. IMO we should plan to play at least two INTs on the o-line and spend most of our recruitment efforts on finding two great tackles. Move VZ inside to RG. Hopefully Sackey and Campbell come to camp ready to start but I wouldn't bet on that until 2018. See if we can get something in trade for Bourke.