"If I was Michael Copeland" - Ideas for Argos off-the-field 2017 Thread

[timlb01]

Older fans like to stay home and watch tv. You may get them out for one game, but the argos need that 25-35 demographic. Disposable income, no kids, etc to create some atmosphere.
If you get 5,000 fans in that demographic, you build some excitement, and start drawing the "tourists" that will come to 1 or 2 games a year.
The crowds this year have been so bad we have stopped talking about them.
Spend the off season talking to TFC and basically following their approach. Or call up Ottawa and get some tips from their marketing team.
The top priority this off season should be an agressive season ticket strategy.

This needs to get figured out quickly. I am still socked at the attendance last year and this year as I use to think 23,000 was a bad crowd. I never imagined when we were all discussing the move to BMO that we would dip below 20k at any game.

[Neely2005]

This needs to get figured out quickly. I am still socked at the attendance last year and this year as I use to think 23,000 was a bad crowd. I never imagined when we were all discussing the move to BMO that we would dip below 20k at any game.

Unfortunately I don't think this is going to change quickly. It will take a few years to build the attendance back up.

[paulwoods13]

Long-term sustainable growth is far more important than another quick fix. We've had a few of those over the years and they have never led to sustained success. I feel this is a five- to seven-year project, to get us to an average of 25k per game. 2k growth each year would do it.

[Scooter McCray]

I could not agree more. We need long term sustainable growth. In order for that to happen we need the right people with a short, medium and long term plan to make it so. 2 and 1/2 years in we have had steps back and not forward which tells me the right people are not driving the bus.

[paulwoods13]

I could not agree more. We need long term sustainable growth. In order for that to happen we need the right people with a short, medium and long term plan to make it so. 2 and 1/2 years in we have had steps back and not forward which tells me the right people are not driving the bus.

Not to rehash old debates, but I don't think it's reasonable to say the current regime has had 2 1/2 years. Regardless of when Copeland was announced as CEO (26 months ago, for the record), he did not get the keys to the operation until Jan. 1 last year. And as we've all acknowledged, last year had a lot of extra and new stuff to deal with, from the Grey Cup to getting goalposts installed to sorting out relations with TFC. This year is arguably his first real crack at just operating the franchise.

[Scooter McCray]

Not to rehash old debates, but I don't think it's reasonable to say the current regime has had 2 1/2 years. Regardless of when Copeland was announced as CEO (26 months ago, for the record), he did not get the keys to the operation until Jan. 1 last year. And as we've all acknowledged, last year had a lot of extra and new stuff to deal with, from the Grey Cup to getting goalposts installed to sorting out relations with TFC. This year is arguably his first real crack at just operating the franchise.

He got the job the same day Mike Babcock got his. The results to date show who is best in class at their jobs. Paul let me ask you if you were in his shoes knowing you were to start on Jan 1 but still working at CFL office knowing you had the grey cup coming and the important inaugural season you would not have got your ducks in a row? You would have said to Orridge a healthy Argo franchise means a healthier CFL. Let me get to work right away on this.

[AngeloV]

Long-term sustainable growth is far more important than another quick fix. We've had a few of those over the years and they have never led to sustained success. I feel this is a five- to seven-year project, to get us to an average of 25k per game. 2k growth each year would do it.

I think 22k per game would be a long term success.

[timlb01]

I wish I knew what needed to happen to fix this. I am not sure if I agree or disagree that Copeland and company need to go. I am like many who thought the new venue would resolve many issues along with the tailgating etc that was put in place. The last two years in the SkyDome and dealing with Rogers really hurt the team and the league. To me that was not handled well although I know these things are not done unless your last name is Trump but I think the league should have hit back at Rogers the way Leo Cahill would have. All those home games away from home made the team and league look second rate and not one thing was said or done. I think there should have been a strategy other than the one that was decided which was do nothing.

I agree with an earlier statement that too many fans just don't attend. There are enough people out there that are closet fans who don't go. How do we draw them out of the closet? I can speak for myself at times it is very difficult to find someone to take to the game. If I had Leaf tickets the only thing keeping people away is the price of the seats. TFC, RedBlacks are a couple of teams that have done a very good job. Why Copeland and company cannot replicate this I don't understand. Maybe it will take another 5 years but I worry we are not doing the right things which I am not sure what they are.

I also think TSN broadcasts need to stop talking about this player played in the NFL... this guy tried out in the NFL.... enough of that....TSN and the League need to highlight the differences between the leagues and how this requires different skill sets and that is why we get players like we do. I have also stated before I think the exclusive TV deal may hurt the long term success of the Argos and the League especially in T.O. as Rogers is always on the hate.

[paulwoods13]

He got the job the same day Mike Babcock got his. The results to date show who is best in class at their jobs. Paul let me ask you if you were in his shoes knowing you were to start on Jan 1 but still working at CFL office knowing you had the grey cup coming and the important inaugural season you would not have got your ducks in a row? You would have said to Orridge a healthy Argo franchise means a healthier CFL. Let me get to work right away on this.

Copeland can't do it all himself. He could say that to Orridge, and Orridge could say Sure, but Orridge couldn't hand him any staff. In fact, the Argonauts arguably did not have enough (or the right) front-office personnel last year AFTER the changeover. It's dreaming, IMO, to imagine that somehow Copeland could have built up a big season ticket base working on his own without an ownership group to fund his efforts. If you want to blame someone for moving too slowly, blame Tanenbaum and Cope. They could have built up a big shadow administration in the months leading up to Jan. 1, 2016. That would have been their call, not Copeland's.

With all due respect, comparing Copeland's record to Babcock's based on the timing of their hires is absurd. Babcock has two senior execs above him making key decisions, and he benefited from the luck of a lottery and a few years of failure that provided him with plenty of good pieces to work with. Frankly, Babcock's challenge was far, far less difficult than Copeland's. Babcock had to take a team that had a lot of excellent talent already in the pipeline and help it gel (with the added luck of getting a superstar handed to him after Year 1). Copeland had/has to turn around an organization that has been hampered by decades of neglect and abuse by ownership and management.

[Neely2005]

He got the job the same day Mike Babcock got his. The results to date show who is best in class at their jobs. Paul let me ask you if you were in his shoes knowing you were to start on Jan 1 but still working at CFL office knowing you had the grey cup coming and the important inaugural season you would not have got your ducks in a row? You would have said to Orridge a healthy Argo franchise means a healthier CFL. Let me get to work right away on this.

Why are you comparing a CEO to a Coach? Shanahan would be the comparable for Copeland. Trestman would be the comparable for Babcock.

[Shatto]

Copeland's prime responsibility has to be ensuring the team is a commercial success. Crucially, the team must increase attendance at BMO. So far Copeland has been singularly unsuccessful in achieving that goal. Admittedly, he had to overcome difficulties, that were not of his making but at the outset, he implied, that the move into BMO, by itself, would address attendance problems. Attendance appears to be down from last year and if this cannot be significantly altered next year, it is likely, ownership will have to replace those presently at the top of the administrative chain. Copeland probably deserves one more year to prove himself but after three years, if no improvement in attendance is showing, it probably is time for new blood to take over.

[AngeloV]

Copeland's prime responsibility has to be ensuring the team is a commercial success. Crucially, the team must increase attendance at BMO. So far Copeland has been singularly unsuccessful in achieving that goal. Admittedly, he had to overcome difficulties, that were not of his making but at the outset, he implied, that the move into BMO, by itself, would address attendance problems. Attendance appears to be down from last year and if this cannot be significantly altered next year, it is likely, ownership will have to replace those presently at the top of the administrative chain. Copeland probably deserves one more year to prove himself but after three years, if no improvement in attendance is showing, it probably is time for new blood to take over.

I think that's a fair comment.

[doubleblue]

Copeland's prime responsibility has to be ensuring the team is a commercial success. Crucially, the team must increase attendance at BMO. So far Copeland has been singularly unsuccessful in achieving that goal. Admittedly, he had to overcome difficulties, that were not of his making but at the outset, he implied, that the move into BMO, by itself, would address attendance problems. Attendance appears to be down from last year and if this cannot be significantly altered next year, it is likely, ownership will have to replace those presently at the top of the administrative chain. Copeland probably deserves one more year to prove himself but after three years, if no improvement in attendance is showing, it probably is time for new blood to take over.

Is Keith Pelley still over playing golf in Europe? He was a go getter. Would probably get Pinball more involved as well.

[ArgofanIan]

Just my opinion but I would like this management team be given 3 more years at least... I think if any management group can turn this around I think this is our best bet... I have been impressed with things like the town hall this year, the tailgate seems to get better and better, foot operations and the stadium are excellent.. I think the team running the business side is real good.... just need more time .... but what do I know... Go ARRGOS....

[R.J]

I'd give Copeland and Moore one more year, but if things don't improve, I'd like for Mark Cohon to get a call. And since I'm living in Never Neverland currently, I'd also like for there to be an announcement of Rogers buying 37.5% of the Argonauts, and the Argos to be engulfed into MLSE.

[Downtownfan]

I'd give Copeland and Moore one more year, but if things don't improve, I'd like for Mark Cohon to get a call. And since I'm living in Never Neverland currently, I'd also like for there to be an announcement of Rogers buying 37.5% of the Argonauts, and the Argos to be engulfed into MLSE.

I really believe that MLSE buying the Argos was originally very much Leiwike's plan, and that all the delay (blamed on Braley), was actually Rogers' slow-footing the process in an effort to damage the team (which it did, undoubtedly). I remember clearly the original plans for the BMO structural changes also included a city application to change the signage in Maple Leaf Square-- indicating that, in my view, the Argos logo would be added to the signage there, since they would become part of the MLSE family. That single development would have likely completed changed the landscape for the Argos in profound ways.

Though we will likely never know the whole story, I truly believe that there was a conscious, concerted effort by Rogers to string along and ultimately betray their initial inclination to be a part of the MLSE purchase of the Argos. This is why the other two ended up doing it, and why it took so long; I also think that Braley bore the brunt of the "blame" for this, which was only partially fair. I think Rogers, and especially Ted Rogers III, has some weird thing with the Argos, which permeates so much of that company. Thankfully, Larry T, though he part of that horrible effort to get the Bills here, seems to have changed his tune.

[ArgoRavi]

Is Keith Pelley still over playing golf in Europe? He was a go getter. Would probably get Pinball more involved as well.

Bring Keith back to give away 10k tickets per game and all will be well.

[ArgoZ]

Bring Keith back to give away 10k tickets per game and all will be well.

Funny, sarcastic and probably the truth. Imagine if we had 17 thousand tickets sold and 10 thousand freebies? Stadium sold out and Argonauts are a perceived success. Slowly dwindle the 10k number for financial stability. I believe this was exactly the plan during the C&S era.

The glaring omission the last few games has been the lack or near non exsistence of group sales in the upper East side. Add them and we are back to 18-20K crowd.

[doubleblue]

Bring Keith back to give away 10k tickets per game and all will be well.

I know there were free tickets given out, mostly to younger fans. At least they were trying to get some of them to eventually become Argo fans as they grew older. So what is your plan? How do you know it was 10,000. It was their money (maybe some of Braley's) but IMO a form of advertising. And I actually go to the games and I see quite a few young fans along with us old kooks. Just not enough of them yet.
To me the biggest drop off from the Dome to BMO, is the STH's that used to sit behind the Argo benches. Copeland and Moore (or somebody) decided to really soak them I guess to try and make up for lack of sales they thought would be on the East side. It looks like many rebelled as there are a lot more empty seats in that area than were at the Dome.

[R.J]

Funny, sarcastic and probably the truth. Imagine if we had 17 thousand tickets sold and 10 thousand freebies? Stadium sold out and Argonauts are a perceived success. Slowly dwindle the 10k number for financial stability. I believe this was exactly the plan during the C&S era.

The glaring omission the last few games has been the lack or near non exsistence of group sales in the upper East side. Add them and we are back to 18-20K crowd.

Actually from 04-08 the Argos season ticket base went from reportedly under 5,000 to 12,000, so it did seem to work some. I think what kiboshed the whole thing was the season the Argos had in 08, almost as if all the good will and positive vibes went out the door in a single swoop.