"If I was Michael Copeland" - Ideas for Argos off-the-field 2017 Thread

[paulwoods13]

Tiger-Cats are apparently claiming their history goes back to 1869, so there would be some dispute over which team is the oldest. The Tiger-Cats actually formed under current name in 1950 through the merger of Tigers and Wildcats. so Argonauts can legitimately claim to be the oldest team playing under the same monicker.

[Neely2005]

Tiger-Cats are apparently claiming their history goes back to 1869, so there would be some dispute over which team is the oldest. The Tiger-Cats actually formed under current name in 1950 through the merger of Tigers and Wildcats. so Argonauts can legitimately claim to be the oldest team playing under the same monicker.

Well the league doesn't recognize them as older.

"ALL-TIME RECORDS

Grey Cup Wins:

16- Toronto Argonauts
14- Edmonton Eskimos
10- Winnipeg Blue Bombers
8- Hamilton Tiger-Cats
7- Ottawa Rough Riders
7- Montreal Alouettes
7- Calgary Stampeders
6- B.C. Lions
4- Saskatchewan Roughriders

Other teams:

5- Hamilton Tigers
4- University of Toronto
3- Queen’s University
2- Sarnia Imperials & Toronto Balmy Beach
1- Montreal AAA Winged Wheelers, Montreal St. Hyacinthe-D Navy, Toronto RCAF Hurricanes, Hamilton Alerts, Hamilton Flying Wildcats & Baltimore Stallions

*Baltimore is the only non-Canadian team to have ever won the Grey Cup (1995)"

http://www.cfl.ca/2010/12/02/by-the-...rey-cup-glory/

[ArgoZ]

If the Argonauts merged with the Raptors next year to become the Raptor-Nauts, would people claim that they are the oldest CFL team or that they can trace their roots to 1873? I understand Hamilton's argument, but they formed in 1950.

[Argo57]

Tiger-Cats are apparently claiming their history goes back to 1869, so there would be some dispute over which team is the oldest. The Tiger-Cats actually formed under current name in 1950 through the merger of Tigers and Wildcats. so Argonauts can legitimately claim to be the oldest team playing under the same monicker.

Desperate attempt to compare themselves to the 16 Time World Champion Toronto Argonauts.

[Neely2005]

All great points. Still not sure how much that flies with a lot of the people, but worth trying. Pinball used to go on the radio and always mentioned this.

Yeah there are some people that you won't reach but I think that it will resonate with some people who are unaware.

[Neely2005]

Desperate attempt to compare themselves to the 16 Time World Champion Toronto Argonauts.

Exactly, those losers haven't even won a championship this century.
:-)

[Tipper1983]

You mean in this Millennium hehehe :P

[argos1873]

You'd be surprised how many people think that the CFL is nothing but Canada's version of the NFL. What I mean by that is that many people believe that the CFL was solely created as an attempt to have an NFL in Canada. Much like the USFL was created or the AFL before that or the WHA in hockey, but more specifically something akin to an attempt to create a Canadian version of major league of baseball . As a result, they believe the rule differences,such as 3 downs and the rouge, are just the CFL's attempts to make the game more exciting or different, and therefore are just gimmicks, because the rules in the NFL are the "real deal", since the NFL itself is the "real deal". They do not understand the history behind the rule differences, the history behind the game of Canadian football itself, and assume that investing time or energy into such a thing as the CFL, is like investing in a knockoff product. So that's why I believe that at least in some way the history of the game and the Argos needs to be presented to potential fans. This is by no means the silver bullet to solving the Argos issues, but people need to understand they aren't just investing their time and money into a fly by night knock-off gimmicky style product, but its something that actually stands alone, and has stood alone long before their great-great grandpappies were in diapers.

[larz-7]

[QUOTE=argos1873;108382]You'd be surprised how many people think that the CFL is nothing but Canada's version of the NFL. What I mean by that is that many people believe that the CFL was solely created as an attempt to have an NFL in Canada. Much like the USFL was created or the AFL before that or the WHA in hockey, but more specifically something akin to an attempt to create a Canadian version of major league of baseball . As a result, they believe the rule differences,such as 3 downs and the rouge, are just the CFL's attempts to make the game more exciting or different, and therefore are just gimmicks, because the rules in the NFL are the "real deal", since the NFL itself is the "real deal". They do not understand the history behind the rule differences, the history behind the game of Canadian football itself, and assume that investing time or energy into such a thing as the CFL, is like investing in a knockoff product. So that's why I believe that at least in some way the history of the game and the Argos needs to be presented to potential fans. This is by no means the silver bullet to solving the Argos issues, but people need to understand they aren't just investing their time and money into a fly by night knock-off gimmicky style product, but its something that actually stands alone, and has stood alone long before their great-great grandpappies were in diapers.[/QUOTE
or how many greycups have been played too how many super bowls ]

[TOBenfica]

just like how the combine all the grey cup wins from all teams in Hamilton? alternative facts.

Tiger-Cats are apparently claiming their history goes back to 1869, so there would be some dispute over which team is the oldest. The Tiger-Cats actually formed under current name in 1950 through the merger of Tigers and Wildcats. so Argonauts can legitimately claim to be the oldest team playing under the same monicker.

[argos1873]

or how many greycups have been played too how many super bowls ]

Well, to compare Super Bowls to Grey Cups is not a fair comparison the other way either. Sure Super Bowls have only been played since 1967, but in reality the NFL championship game preceding the Super Bowls were the "Super Bowls" of the time. They have been occurring since 1930. Before that, college football was the king of American football. Up until that time, the Grey Cup was basically an amateur affair as well, with University teams also vying for it. Its like saying the CFL is older than the NFL, when in fact the CFL didn't exist until 1958. But professional Canadian football had been played for a few decades before that. Its not really a point of which is older, or was established first, its more a point that Canadian football was established on its own right, and stood on its own, with its own rules that in fact only became more American as time went on, not rules that were established as American, with a few quirks as many people believe.

[argos1873]

just like how the combine all the grey cup wins from all teams in Hamilton? alternative facts.

No Ti-Cat fan here whatsoever, but I don't think its a big stretch for the Tiger-Cats to include all Hamilton Grey Cup wins as theirs. All but one Hamilton win before the Tiger/Wildcat amalgamation were won by the Hamilton Tigers. The one not won by them was by the Alerts, who were expelled by the ORFU and most of the players went on to the Tigers. The Tigers folded in 1940, but so did the entire IRFU (suspended actually, including the Argos.) due to the war, and came back in 1945. They then amalgamated with the ORFU's Wildcats in 1950. So shouldn't they include those Tiger wins as theirs? Not sure about the 1 Alert win, but I don't really have an issue with them including Tiger Grey Cup wins and Tiger history into their realm, since the team is a combination of the Tigers. The Wildcats only existed since 1941 anyhow. Anyhow, maybe they should just have an asterisk besides their Grey Cup total. If it pisses them off, then I'm all for that.

[Tipper1983]

I don't have issue with honouring the past Hamilton champions (as gross as any Hamilton win is) but to count them in their total is a bit sad in my opinion, especially since they were actually different organizations...The Leafs hang banners for previous Toronto cups (Arenas/St. Pats) but don't go around saying they have won 13 times, and those were actually the same organization. Maybe it's just because we try to keep it classy over this side of the lake :P

[Neely2005]

No Ti-Cat fan here whatsoever, but I don't think its a big stretch for the Tiger-Cats to include all Hamilton Grey Cup wins as theirs. All but one Hamilton win before the Tiger/Wildcat amalgamation were won by the Hamilton Tigers. The one not won by them was by the Alerts, who were expelled by the ORFU and most of the players went on to the Tigers. The Tigers folded in 1940, but so did the entire IRFU (suspended actually, including the Argos.) due to the war, and came back in 1945. They then amalgamated with the ORFU's Wildcats in 1950. So shouldn't they include those Tiger wins as theirs? Not sure about the 1 Alert win, but I don't really have an issue with them including Tiger Grey Cup wins and Tiger history into their realm, since the team is a combination of the Tigers. The Wildcats only existed since 1941 anyhow. Anyhow, maybe they should just have an asterisk besides their Grey Cup total. If it pisses them off, then I'm all for that.

The league doesn't recognize them amalgamated.

Well the league doesn't recognize them as older.

"ALL-TIME RECORDS

Grey Cup Wins:

16- Toronto Argonauts
14- Edmonton Eskimos
10- Winnipeg Blue Bombers
8- Hamilton Tiger-Cats
7- Ottawa Rough Riders
7- Montreal Alouettes
7- Calgary Stampeders
6- B.C. Lions
4- Saskatchewan Roughriders

Other teams:

5- Hamilton Tigers
4- University of Toronto
3- Queen’s University
2- Sarnia Imperials & Toronto Balmy Beach
1- Montreal AAA Winged Wheelers, Montreal St. Hyacinthe-D Navy, Toronto RCAF Hurricanes, Hamilton Alerts, Hamilton Flying Wildcats & Baltimore Stallions

*Baltimore is the only non-Canadian team to have ever won the Grey Cup (1995)"

http://www.cfl.ca/2010/12/02/by-the-...rey-cup-glory/

[argos1873]

I don't have issue with honouring the past Hamilton champions but to count them in their total is a bit sad in my opinion, especially since they were actually different organizations...The Leafs hang banners for previous Toronto cups (Arenas/St. Pats) but don't go around saying they have won 13 times and those were actually the same organization.

But they weren't different organizations. All of the Hamilton cup wins were won by the Tigers except for the one won by the Alerts. I haven't checked by do they count the Alerts? But regardless, the Tigers merged with the Wildcats, and became the Tiger-Cats. So then should they abandon all their past because of that? I don't think so. In my opinion they brought their history into the new organization.

[argos1873]

The league doesn't recognize them amalgamated.

Interesting, and good to know. I don't agree, but, I'm not the league, lol. I stand corrected.

Edit-- I do think its quite handy for the league to suggest that the Hamilton Tigers were separate entities due to the break during WW2, if they had of won a cup afterwards, it would be more difficult to suggest. But had they been successful afterwards they probably never would have merged. But regardless, it was a amalgamation, no matter what the league, which didn't even exist at the time, says.

Edit again -- Your link is basically a league blog post. Its not definitive league literature.

[Stevoman]

Johany Jutras is the CFL photographer and Argos official team photographer and does great work and yet there is no photo gallery section on the Argos site nor on any social media platforms. What's the deal? I know that there are about 10 photos for each game on the CFL site but there have to be more taken. I know it wouldn't likely draw in any more fans but having great photos available (since they are paying someone to do it anyway) seems like logical thing to do especially since players re-tweet them and people share them on Facebook which ends up being free publicity.

[ArgofanIan]

One thing I would do if I was the boss .... Would be to advertise on stations like AM 740 who have older listeners... AM 740 has a CFL friendly sports cast and sports show on Sunday ... .... Mike Hogan was on today and 2 of 5 callers mentioned the ARGOs.. AM 740 also is in liberty Village.... I think CFL should market to the whole Zoomer / CARP thing even if its just for one game ... or even legacy CFL season ticket holders somehow ... We need younger fans as well as more diversity.... but I think including older fans.... should be part of the plan ... to at least get more buts in the seats.... plus older people understand the CFL and sometimes have disposable income... so should be an easier sell....

So essentially target traditional older CFL FANS.... who are not listening to sports radio...

[Topshelf]

Older fans like to stay home and watch tv. You may get them out for one game, but the argos need that 25-35 demographic. Disposable income, no kids, etc to create some atmosphere.
If you get 5,000 fans in that demographic, you build some excitement, and start drawing the "tourists" that will come to 1 or 2 games a year.
The crowds this year have been so bad we have stopped talking about them.
Spend the off season talking to TFC and basically following their approach. Or call up Ottawa and get some tips from their marketing team.
The top priority this off season should be an agressive season ticket strategy.

[doubleblue]

One thing I would do if I was the boss .... Would be to advertise on stations like AM 740 who have older listeners... AM 740 has a CFL friendly sports cast and sports show on Sunday ... .... Mike Hogan was on today and 2 of 5 callers mentioned the ARGOs.. AM 740 also is in liberty Village.... I think CFL should market to the whole Zoomer / CARP thing even if its just for one game ... or even legacy CFL season ticket holders somehow ... We need younger fans as well as more diversity.... but I think including older fans.... should be part of the plan ... to at least get more buts in the seats.... plus older people understand the CFL and sometimes have disposable income... so should be an easier sell....

So essentially target traditional older CFL FANS.... who are not listening to sports radio...

Maybe we could get some zoomer music at the games, once in a while. I still have a headache from Saturdays "younger fans" music.