Damien Cox - Argos v TFC

[R.J]

Still don't get why MLSE looks at losing $15-$20million a season on TFC as good business .. thats more than they paid for the franchise.

The entire MLS is basing their financial situation on future value, hoping that a mega media deal comes their way. That's the reason why they feel expansion fees should be over $100 million, but the fact that they are finding people who are willing to pay it, is just further proof IMO that a lot of people have more money than brains.

[R.J]

Even the Whitecaps are fudging numbers

Average attendance at BC Place. #WhitecapsFC

Announced: 20,889
Actual: 17,537#BCLions

Announced: 19,749
Actual: 14,579 https://t.co/VRJsokZ5EN

— Mike Martignago (@MikeMartignago) November 15, 2016

[RB957]

I wonder why Cox's article focused mostly on the NFL then.

I think it is because he has always been biased towards the NFL. However, he could not overlook that the CFL numbers were better. I see it as grudging acknowledgement not boasting. Doesn't matter though, because the numbers speak for themselves and to me shows that there is legitimate interest in Canadian football.

[Scooter McCray]

I still think that if the media covered the Argos proportionally to their viewership they would be relevant in this market. Instead the Argos have to pull rabbits out of their hats to market and hope the media take notice.

[Mulder]

From a CP article, one that paints a much different picture of TFC than you usually hear. While the team has many positives, such as season tickets and overall attendance, it is not all rosy. https://ca.sports.yahoo.com/news/tor...213419470.html

But hey, would you ever hear that...

"While Toronto FC is enjoying its most successful season on the pitch, the MLS franchise won't make money this season. ...The team tracks both paid attendance and the actual turnstile count at BMO Field. The gap between the two narrowed by 3,000 each game this season even though paid tickets were only up 1,500 a match. ...The team only gets about 100 walkup fans a game, Manning said.... ...While he was happy with playoff audiences of more than 200,000, regular season ratings were down this year. He hopes to discuss scheduling and numbers with his TV partners in the off-season...."

I've been calling this a for a few years now.
MLSE has bent over backwards to give their fanbase what they want. It started with Grass, then they still weren't fielding a good team MLSE could sense a revolt happening among the season ticket base, the cut existing season ticket prices in half with little media attention. (Remember that when Argos announce next years pricing). And now finally invested some money into the team and a winning season, and look ratings are down, and they didn't sell out the first playoff game in history. It's pretty much the same 20,000 people going to every game, and yet you have some members of that fanbase calling for their own 50,000 seat stadium in 5-10 years...

As for the TFC vs Argos debate that has raged for years. It's pretty clear which side started it, and for the most part instead of having a rational debate about the merits of both leagues in this city one side has actively snuffed out opposing viewpoints, raged social media war and hoped for the death of a team. It hasn't been until recently that some Argo Fans (including this site) have been using their own tactics against them. I don't hate TFC, I hate what is likely a vocal minority of their fanbase doing such actions. Thus, it's been really hard for Argo Fans to even like TFC.

[Will]

I've been calling this a for a few years now.
MLSE has bent over backwards to give their fanbase what they want. It started with Grass, then they still weren't fielding a good team MLSE could sense a revolt happening among the season ticket base, the cut existing season ticket prices in half with little media attention. (Remember that when Argos announce next years pricing). And now finally invested some money into the team and a winning season, and look ratings are down, and they didn't sell out the first playoff game in history. It's pretty much the same 20,000 people going to every game, and yet you have some members of that fanbase calling for their own 50,000 seat stadium in 5-10 years...

As for the TFC vs Argos debate that has raged for years. It's pretty clear which side started it, and for the most part instead of having a rational debate about the merits of both leagues in this city one side has actively snuffed out opposing viewpoints, raged social media war and hoped for the death of a team. It hasn't been until recently that some Argo Fans (including this site) have been using their own tactics against them. I don't hate TFC, I hate what is likely a vocal minority of their fanbase doing such actions. Thus, it's been really hard for Argo Fans to even like TFC.

I totally agree.
Put that vocal minority aside, I'd be probably neutral about TFC.

[Jayahre]

I still think that if the media covered the Argos proportionally to their viewership they would be relevant in this market. Instead the Argos have to pull rabbits out of their hats to market and hope the media take notice.

I think that the Sun has extensive coverage of the Argos through the season. Lots of coverage too about the move to BMO, the ownership change, the marketing with the posters on the TTC, the ads on TV with the players running through the Princes gates. The coverage about the Shipyards concerts, the tailgating, the $4 beers. What more could they have done?
How can the media not ignore 12k fans showing up for the second game and the 16k average over the season?

Some people get upset when the media reports on TFC or that they averaged over 26k this season and 17k season tickets, and that is over 20 home games a year, not just the 9 that the Argos play.
You can't ignore that fact that TFC has already sold more tickets for their game at BMO on Nov 30th than Grey Cup tickets sold.

As for TV ratings, it's really irrelevant for a league that is gate driven, the CFL has sold their broadcast rights to TSN until 2022.
We don't even know what the TV ratings breakdown for the CFL is in Toronto, we have no idea how many in Toronto are watching the Argos. If an Argo game gets 500k viewers we don't know how many in the city are watching, 480k of the viewers could be the loyal CFL viewers watching across Canada.

Maybe the article by Cox wouldn't have upset Argo fans if he had just reported on the success of TFC and not mentioned or compared to the Argos. But it's hard to ignore what has happened to TFC and the Argos. The same trend is happening in Montreal, the Impact out drawing the Als and they have sold 50k tickets for their playoff game against TFC.

[Godfather]

I've been calling this a for a few years now.
MLSE has bent over backwards to give their fanbase what they want. It started with Grass, then they still weren't fielding a good team MLSE could sense a revolt happening among the season ticket base, the cut existing season ticket prices in half with little media attention. (Remember that when Argos announce next years pricing). And now finally invested some money into the team and a winning season, and look ratings are down, and they didn't sell out the first playoff game in history. It's pretty much the same 20,000 people going to every game, and yet you have some members of that fanbase calling for their own 50,000 seat stadium in 5-10 years...

As for the TFC vs Argos debate that has raged for years. It's pretty clear which side started it, and for the most part instead of having a rational debate about the merits of both leagues in this city one side has actively snuffed out opposing viewpoints, raged social media war and hoped for the death of a team. It hasn't been until recently that some Argo Fans (including this site) have been using their own tactics against them. I don't hate TFC, I hate what is likely a vocal minority of their fanbase doing such actions. Thus, it's been really hard for Argo Fans to even like TFC.

You can never believe team owners when they say that teams are not making money. If they admit teams make money then fans want lower prices and players want more money. I think that TFC, through synergies with other Rogers/Bell/MLSE interests (along with the argos) is providing a financial benefit to its owners. However, I do think that if MLS goes under it will be due to an inability to control player salaries (a lesson the CFL learned).

[Argoknot]

I've been calling this a for a few years now.
MLSE has bent over backwards to give their fanbase what they want. It started with Grass, then they still weren't fielding a good team MLSE could sense a revolt happening among the season ticket base, the cut existing season ticket prices in half with little media attention. (Remember that when Argos announce next years pricing). And now finally invested some money into the team and a winning season, and look ratings are down, and they didn't sell out the first playoff game in history. It's pretty much the same 20,000 people going to every game, and yet you have some members of that fanbase calling for their own 50,000 seat stadium in 5-10 years...

As for the TFC vs Argos debate that has raged for years. It's pretty clear which side started it, and for the most part instead of having a rational debate about the merits of both leagues in this city one side has actively snuffed out opposing viewpoints, raged social media war and hoped for the death of a team. It hasn't been until recently that some Argo Fans (including this site) have been using their own tactics against them. I don't hate TFC, I hate what is likely a vocal minority of their fanbase doing such actions. Thus, it's been really hard for Argo Fans to even like TFC.

Post of the year candidate!

[Argoknot]

Maybe the article by Cox wouldn't have upset Argo fans if he had just reported on the success of TFC and not mentioned or compared to the Argos. But it's hard to ignore what has happened to TFC and the Argos. The same trend is happening in Montreal, the Impact out drawing the Als and they have sold 50k tickets for their playoff game against TFC.

And maybe if you weren't one of the people Mulder was referring to about raging social media war against the league and Argos we might take what you say seriously. But at least you are allowed to get your insidious shots in (as if we are too stupid to figure it out), but if the shoe were on the other foot at the TFC website, you'd be banned after one post.

[Argoknot]

I totally agree. Put that vocal minority aside, I'd be probably neutral about TFC.

I'll go even farther, if it wasn't for them I might even support TFC. But those aholes wanted it that way, so be it.

Here's something I find funny, TFC is supposed to be made up of PC/SJW millennials, but they are the most sexist and exclusive fan bases there is. And yet the stodgy old CFL has actively campaigned to embrace the LGBT community. Go figure, things are never as they seem.

[Mulder]

You can never believe team owners when they say that teams are not making money. If they admit teams make money then fans want lower prices and players want more money. I think that TFC, through synergies with other Rogers/Bell/MLSE interests (along with the argos) is providing a financial benefit to its owners. However, I do think that if MLS goes under it will be due to an inability to control player salaries (a lesson the CFL learned).

Lots of similarities between the designated player rule in MLS and what happened to the CFL in the early 90's.

People seem to take some comfort that the league holds the players contracts, give it more of a safety net but if the whole structure fails then MLS will fail..