Yes it's True...I've Jumped Ship

[Neely2005]

The team sucked on the field (not something Copeland et al could reasonably have foreseen) but how did they "add to the damage" off the field? By over-pricing GC tickets? (Which they did, and which they have corrected, to the satisfaction of at least some of those directly affected.) By not having a fan day for the few dozen people who would go? By not offering merch discounts? We have a better stadium, a better game-day experience and a reasonable prospect of a better home schedule in future years, yet we are worse off than we were a year ago?

Under the previous owner season ticket holders received:

A gift (Book, DVD, Flag, Glasses... )
Merchandise Discount Card
Free extra tickets to the home opener (not every year)
Townhall (not every year)
Fan Day
Entry into draws for autographed merchandise and seat upgrades.

So tell me how season ticket holders were Not worse off than a year ago?

[PullTogether73]

Under the previous owner season ticket holders received:

A gift (Book, DVD, Flag, Glasses... )
Merchandise Discount Card
Free extra tickets to the home opener (not every year)
Townhall (not every year)
Fan Day
Entry into draws for autographed merchandise and seat upgrades.

So tell me how season ticket holders were Not worse off than a year ago?

If I recall correctly, you have stated that you have gone to both the tailgates and the Shipyard.
How many times did you attend those in previous years?

[argomANIA]

I think it's overblown. Just my opinion.

I paid $200 per seat for my season tickets this year, and I sit in the upper level on the 10 yard line. I have been credited 20 for the non playoff game, so I got 1 pre season and 9 regular season games for a total of $180. IMO, you can't beat that deal anywhere in sports. I don't expect any additional perks as I knew what I was paying for before I put my money down. Have I enjoyed town halls and draft parties in the past? Yes I have. But never have I made something like that a condition on purchasing my tickets.

At the end of the day it is Ania's choice to do what she wants. I just can't agree with her reasoning here. If the team sent me to a grey cup (let alone 2) on their dollar, I would never turn my back on them no matter what.

Agreed, it's my choice of how I spend my hard earned money. I never said the team sent me to those Grey Cups. They were sponsored contests that I had to work hard to prove how big of an Argo fan I was...gather votes and so on. Nothing's been handed to me.

My point is that you have received a good deal more than virtually all long(er) term Argonauts fans.

We haven't received two free trips to the Grey Cup.
We weren't invited to drink from the Grey Cup by Argonauts players.
We didn't have Argonauts players attend any personal functions.

Yet, you seem to expect new owners/managers to provide you with some type of insider's privileges that you had under previous owners.
Maybe they don't know you yet.
Maybe they have been too busy with other things associated with taking over a team, moving that team to a new venue, getting licenses/approvals for a new game day function (tailgating), planning the league's championship game and festival.
Hence my comment about the new owners try to retrofit a listing ship.

Again, never did I say all these were 'given' to me. I've worked hard, invested a lot of my time and money into this team. For about 10 seasons I took off one weeks vacation just to attend training camp. I built relationships with the players on a personal level that fueled my passion. None of the previous owners "knew" me. Nothing was handed to me. I probably own almost every piece of Argo merchandise form shirts to jackets to hats from the last 20 years.
What I'm saying is that when it all began I was 13 years old. These events and interactions with the players is what made me a fan. I feel like this is what the city needs to build a new fan base. Again, just my opinion.

[Neely2005]

If I recall correctly, you have stated that you have gone to both the tailgates and the Shipyard.
How many times did you attend those in previous years?

I went to every Tailgate this season and paid $30 x 10 to go for them. I've also attended what the Argonauts called Tailgates at the Rogers Centre and they were free.

I haven't been to the Shipyard as I was at the Tailgates.

[paulwoods13]

Under the previous owner season ticket holders received:

A gift (Book, DVD, Flag, Glasses... )
Merchandise Discount Card
Free extra tickets to the home opener (not every year)
Townhall (not every year)
Fan Day
Entry into draws for autographed merchandise and seat upgrades.

So tell me how season ticket holders were Not worse off than a year ago?

How many of those things you have just described were part of "the deal" a year ago? Some of them certainly weren't. Most if not all of those things on your list have not been regularly offered to STHs. Free tickets some years, not all as you say. Merch discount some years, not all. Townhalls almost never -- two that I can remember in the past 35 years. (And I would like those to come back, for the record.) Fan day has never had anything to do with season's tickets.

I like free Argo stuff as much as anybody, and some of the gifts over the years have been nice. A few have even been useful. But I buy STs not for free stuff but to support a team I care about. The other stuff is nice but not essential to my customer satisfaction.

[Neely2005]

How many of those things you have just described were part of "the deal" a year ago? Some of them certainly weren't. Most if not all of those things on your list have not been regularly offered to STHs. Free tickets some years, not all as you say. Merch discount some years, not all. Townhalls almost never -- two that I can remember in the past 35 years. (And I would like those to come back, for the record.) Fan day has never had anything to do with season's tickets.

I like free Argo stuff as much as anybody, and some of the gifts over the years have been nice. A few have even been useful. But I buy STs not for free stuff but to support a team I care about. The other stuff is nice but not essential to my customer satisfaction.

We had the following last year:

A gift (Argonauts Glasses)
Merchandise Discount Card
Free extra tickets to the home opener
Fan Day
Entry into draws for autographed merchandise and seat upgrades.
Ticket Swap

It's great that you feel that way, obviously others don't.

Before the season Michael Copeland talked about what Argonauts season ticket holders had been through and how he was going to make sure that they were taken care of and were a priority. That obviously didn't happen.

[R.J]

Maybe they had a lot of stuff to figure out in a short span of time, and as a result didn't achieve perfection in Year 1. Is there no patience in this world any more?

While Bell and Tanenbaum only took over the team on January 1st, the sale announcement was made in My 2015. They had about a year to plan things out behind the scenes, and Michael Copeland left the League in September 2015 to join the Argonauts in the same month. Yes, in total they had less than a year, but certain things should have been figured out. I'm more than willing to be patient with the business side of the team, because I'm not a fan of blaming them for 30 years of this teams struggles, but on the field for me is another matter, and a bit off topic so I'll leave it at that.

We had the following last year:

A gift (Argonauts Glasses)
Merchandise Discount Card
Free extra tickets to the home opener
Fan Day
Entry into draws for autographed merchandise and seat upgrades.

So, what exactly are you looking from the team ? To give you what they had in years past or something specific ?

[paulwoods13]

While Bell and Tanenbaum only took over the team on January 1st, the sale announcement was made in My 2015. They had about a year to plan things out behind the scenes, and Michael Copeland left the League in September 2015 to join the Argonauts in the same month. Yes, in total they had less than a year, but certain things should have been figured out.

Many important things WERE figured out. Tailgating. Shipyard. Seat locations for existing STHs, sorted out in an orderly fashion that met everyone's needs. How to look after the grass at BMO to keep MLSE and soccer fans off our backs. In-game customer service. What "certain things" should have been figured out but weren't?

There are times reading this forum when I think the Argo fanbase will be happy only if the team perpetually goes 15-3 and we all get gifts worth hundreds of dollars and have players visit our homes whenever we want them to.

[ArgoGabe22]

I guess the question should be, do you as a fan feel valued/appreciated by the organization? When your own team doesn't even support groups like the Argonotes, then do they even care about Joe Random?

[Neely2005]

While Bell and Tanenbaum only took over the team on January 1st, the sale announcement was made in My 2015. They had about a year to plan things out behind the scenes, and Michael Copeland left the League in September 2015 to join the Argonauts in the same month. Yes, in total they had less than a year, but certain things should have been figured out. I'm more than willing to be patient with the business side of the team, because I'm not a fan of blaming them for 30 years of this teams struggles, but off the field for me is another matter, and a bit off topic so I'll leave it at that.


So, what exactly are you looking from the team ? To give you what they had in years past or something specific ?

If you're going to make season ticket holders your priority as Michael Copeland stated then you shouldn't be removing benefits and perks.

[paulwoods13]

I guess the question should be, do you as a fan feel valued/appreciated by the organization? When your own team doesn't even support groups like the Argonotes, then do they even care about Joe Random?

What is the evidence that they don't support the Argonotes? Did they not give them tickets to each game, and a regular section to sit and play? What more should they be expected to do for them?

[Shatto]

Perception is reality. If a STH perceives that they did not get a good deal for their money, then that is their reality. It is not up to the STH to change the situation, it is up to the Argo management to do that. Having had season tickets since 1965, I confess there have been times in the past that I have felt unappreciated and let down by the organization but gladly, never badly enough to give up on the team.
I understand Ania's frustration this year. Management has made some very poor decisions this year, culminating in the Grey Cup arrangements fiasco. This might be the first year for the ownership and senior management but there that is no excuse for the some of the poor decisions that have been made. Hopefully this will be a learning situation for all those involved and next year will be a better experience for the STH's.
On a positive note, the pregame environment (tailgate/Shipyard) has been superb, so not all decisions were bad ones.
Ania, we will all respect whatever decision you make about being a STH next year but from an older (not necessarily wiser) head, consider giving the team one more chance--they may surprise all of us.

[Argo57]

Ania's not the only one around here to get Ticat ST's. Although, going full blown Ticat is another matter.

I went full blown Ticat in 2015, couldn't take another season of it so returned to the Argonauts this season.

[Ron]

For what Ania is looking in for fandom the Cats are a better fit and will be in the future. The Cats just do a ton more things where you can hang out with players if that's a big thing for you.

[Argo57]

For what Ania is looking in for fandom the Cats are a better fit and will be in the future. The Cats just do a ton more things where you can hang out with players if that's a big thing for you.

Correct Ron, took my son to a meet and greet earlier this season at THF, tables were set up all around the field with 2 players at each table signing autographs and posing for pictures with the fans.
My son is 13 years old, tons of kids his age at this event, Ticats are brilliant at reaching out and connecting with the Hamilton community and fans!

[argotom]

Where there is smoke you know the saying!
I was just talking yesterday to my season ticket holder neighbour and there is a small movement afoot any way right now to begin the conversation into the possibility of not renewing.
All of us are troubled about the way the new ownership has treated the back bone being the season ticket holders.
There is a possibility of arranging a meeting at a local watering hole and we may post it here to see if any on else is interested?

[ArgoZ]

Ania's not the only one around here to get Ticat ST's. Although, going full blown Ticat is another matter.

"Everyone knows you never go full blown Ticat! You went full blown Ticat, never go full blown Ticat."

There are times reading this forum when I think the Argo fanbase will be happy only if the team perpetually goes 15-3 and we all get gifts worth hundreds of dollars and have players visit our homes whenever we want them to.

That would be awesome!

I went full blown Ticat in 2015, couldn't take another season of it so returned to the Argonauts this season.

Don't worry. Once Ania really experiences the low life infested fan base of the Ti-Cats, she may question her decision. How long until we hear an "Argos Suck!" Ania? Joining the classless doesn't always work out.

Correct Ron, took my son to a meet and greet earlier this season at THF, tables were set up all around the field with 2 players at each table signing autographs and posing for pictures with the fans.
My son is 13 years old, tons of kids his age at this event, Ticats are brilliant at reaching out and connecting with the Hamilton community and fans!

They are great at this. It's not like it is hard to do though. Heck, the Argos had thousands show up to the last Fan Day in Oshawa. Apologists keep commenting why appease a few hundred fans. It's a special event if done right. At the very least, keeping your ST holders engaged, ensures renewals.

[Jon Gonzo]

Certainly not shocking that the Argonauts will be losing some core fans this year.

I am old enough to remember the Tommy Hudspeth, Willie Woods era of futility, and this is still a way better team than anything J.I. Albrecht or Bart Andrus oversaw; but given the possibilities and expectations, this could be considered one of the most frustrating seasons of a lifetime.

I could see that.

Point is, this wasn't a time for this team to be going in reverse in any one area. Even little things like keeping the Roster and Website updated with Transactions, etc. In this day and age, there's not excuse for that kind of thing.

Things can turn around quickly in this little league and they had better.

[ArgoGabe22]

Do you as an Argo fan feel valued/appreciated by the organization?

— DoubleBlueBlog (@DoubleBlueBlog) November 3, 2016

Not scientific but 69% did vote 'no' for whatever reason.

[Stevoman]

I think Ania has lots of reasons for her opinion to be validated and wish her well as a fan of the Ticats. I have grown to appreciate the CFL as a whole and even go to some Lions games to cheer them on (I'm on the Westcoast) but the Argos are my first love and can't ever see that changing. Because they are the only team that I cheer for whole heartedly this season has been frustrating but then I have to remember, it's only sports. I don't play for them and so win or lose, it really doesn't affect me other than for the 10 mins of frustration I feel after a disappointing loss. For Ania, its more than sports though, its about connection and relationships. When those relationships move on, there is a grieving process, especially if new ones are unable to be formed. For me, I'll keep cheering and wearing Argos gear come gameday. I almost didn't for the Calgary game and my kids asked me why not and when I explained the state of the team, they said they needed our support now more than ever and it was all the more reason to wear the gear and cheer them on. Children can be so wise.