Yes it's True...I've Jumped Ship

[argomANIA]

After more then 20 years and about 15 seasons as a Season Ticket Holder I have decided that I needed to take my money where I get more value. This wasn't something I have taken lightly and I can assure you I've shed some tears. I love football and the CFL but over the past couple of seasons we have felt that what the CFL prides itself on has started to decline in Toronto. We tried to remain optimistic year after year but there is no sign of improvement on the horizon.

One of my favourite parts of being a CFL fan is the access to players. The relationships that we are able to build with each other. However over the last couple of seasons the opportunities to create these memorable friendships has diminished. We have seen the demise of the very popular Fan Day. A great opportunity to get fans involved and excited about the upcoming season. There are no more autograph sessions on field after the games. There just aren’t very many events for fans to enjoy.

-I have won two trips to the Grey Cup as the Argos biggest fan.
-I own over 20 Argo jerseys
-My dogs name is Argo
-Custom Argo Licence plates
-I was invited into the team Grey Cup Victory party in 2012 and O'Shea made me drink from the Cup.
-My wedding was Argo themed and even attended by Pinball and Jordan Younger

That's just a small portion of my journey as a fan...to me it's about way more then football. Theres no other professional league in this world that you can make those kind of memories with.

I've written a letter to Copeland and Orridge explaining my decision. I didn't like how the move to BMO was handled. I was given one price point by a ticket rep. When it came to my turn to select seats I was told that price point didn't exist. Those tickets were $200 more per seat then I was told. Our schedule was yet again terrible. You can get tickets for as low at $7 per game on Stubhub to an empty stadium. The biggest slap in the face is the merchandise discount to me. If you want a crested jersey you have to order online and pay shipping. This whole Grey Cup thing was just the final straw for us.

This is not a final goodbye. It’s hopefully a see you later. My heart will always belong to the Argos, I honestly still don't know what colour I will wear on Labour Day. My whole identity is currently lost and I'm still struggling a bit with this decision.

[argonaut11xx]

That's a sad commentary, my wife and I had the pleasure to meet with you in 2012 at a meet and greet in Scarborough arranged by this site.

I truly hope that things work out.

[Will]

This is a pretty sad indictment on the new regime.
I really, really hope somebody is paying attention.

[AngeloV]

This is a pretty sad indictment on the new regime.
I really, really hope somebody is paying attention.

I think it's overblown. Just my opinion.

I paid $200 per seat for my season tickets this year, and I sit in the upper level on the 10 yard line. I have been credited 20 for the non playoff game, so I got 1 pre season and 9 regular season games for a total of $180. IMO, you can't beat that deal anywhere in sports. I don't expect any additional perks as I knew what I was paying for before I put my money down. Have I enjoyed town halls and draft parties in the past? Yes I have. But never have I made something like that a condition on purchasing my tickets.

At the end of the day it is Ania's choice to do what she wants. I just can't agree with her reasoning here. If the team sent me to a grey cup (let alone 2) on their dollar, I would never turn my back on them no matter what.

[argomANIA]

I think it's overblown. Just my opinion.

I paid $200 per seat for my season tickets this year, and I sit in the upper level on the 10 yard line. I have been credited 20 for the non playoff game, so I got 1 pre season and 9 regular season games for a total of $180. IMO, you can't beat that deal anywhere in sports. I don't expect any additional perks as I knew what I was paying for before I put my money down. Have I enjoyed town halls and draft parties in the past? Yes I have. But never have I made something like that a condition on purchasing my tickets.

At the end of the day it is Ania's choice to do what she wants. I just can't agree with her reasoning here. If the team sent me to a grey cup (let alone 2) on their dollar, I would never turn my back on them no matter what.

Agreed, it's my choice of how I spend my hard earned money. I never said the team sent me to those Grey Cups. They were sponsored contests that I had to work hard to prove how big of an Argo fan I was...gather votes and so on. Nothing's been handed to me.

My point is that you have received a good deal more than virtually all long(er) term Argonauts fans.

We haven't received two free trips to the Grey Cup.
We weren't invited to drink from the Grey Cup by Argonauts players.
We didn't have Argonauts players attend any personal functions.

Yet, you seem to expect new owners/managers to provide you with some type of insider's privileges that you had under previous owners.
Maybe they don't know you yet.
Maybe they have been too busy with other things associated with taking over a team, moving that team to a new venue, getting licenses/approvals for a new game day function (tailgating), planning the league's championship game and festival.
Hence my comment about the new owners try to retrofit a listing ship.

Again, never did I say all these were 'given' to me. I've worked hard, invested a lot of my time and money into this team. For about 10 seasons I took off one weeks vacation just to attend training camp. I built relationships with the players on a personal level that fueled my passion. None of the previous owners "knew" me. Nothing was handed to me. I probably own almost every piece of Argo merchandise form shirts to jackets to hats from the last 20 years.
What I'm saying is that when it all began I was 13 years old. These events and interactions with the players is what made me a fan. I feel like this is what the city needs to build a new fan base. Again, just my opinion.

[PullTogether73]

Agreed, it's my choice of how I spend my hard earned money. I never said the team sent me to those Grey Cups. They were sponsored contests that I had to work hard to prove how big of an Argo fan I was...gather votes and so on. Nothing's been handed to me.



Again, never did I say all these were 'given' to me. I've worked hard, invested a lot of my time and money into this team. For about 10 seasons I took off one weeks vacation just to attend training camp. I built relationships with the players on a personal level that fueled my passion. None of the previous owners "knew" me. Nothing was handed to me. I probably own almost every piece of Argo merchandise form shirts to jackets to hats from the last 20 years.
What I'm saying is that when it all began I was 13 years old. These events and interactions with the players is what made me a fan. I feel like this is what the city needs to build a new fan base. Again, just my opinion.

Thanks for clarifying this.
My impression from your original post was that you were given trips and privileges, many of which the rest of us could not imagine receiving.
Putting in the effort you did to cultivate relationships with the team is impressive.

As others have said, the decision to leave is yours, and if you are unhappy with the situation you should possibly move on.
I don't believe in blindly supporting a team. While an emotional connection exists with a team and its fans, ultimately it is a business and fans should exercise their right to withdraw support.

As I said before, I think it is too early in a new ownership's tenure to move on. Fans wait through lean years of on-field performance. I think the same can be done for off-field performance, at least in the shorter term.


As for joining the Tiger-Cats...well, good luck with that.
I will NEVER do that.

At the Argos first game at THF last year, I was walking alone in the concourse, wearing my Argos jersey and hat. A father and son walk past me, hand in hand. Nice family image. The boy, who could be no more than 10 years old, says to me "Argos suck!" The father says nothing and they continue walking. Some 10 year old boy says this to a respectable looking 50 year old man and the father says nothing? Seriously?

At one of the displaced Argos games from last year at THF, I sat in one of the main sections in the lower level with Argos fans. I heard some young kid in the upper deck constantly yelling out "Argos suck!" as his dad sat there next to him. A few minutes later I hear the same kid doing the same thing, but this time only a few rows behind me. Incredible! This idiot man and his young son thought it would be a good idea to move into the middle of a crowd of Argo fans and do this. I turned around and glared at the kid for at least a full minute.
They wisely moved back to the upper deck before I took the issue further - which I would have.

Finally, I took my daughters to an Argos game at Ivor Wynne a few years ago. We had been to at least two previously. We ended up leaving at half time as my daughters didn't feel safe in that environment. My daughters enjoyed going to Argonauts games with me for several years as a family. That was the last time we have gone together to a game in Hamilton.

Last year was the last time I will attend a game in Hamilton, other than the Grey Cup in which the Argonauts are participating.
I have attended football games in Chicago (Bears, Northwestern University), Indiana (Notre Dame), and Buffalo (Bills). I have never seen opposing fans treated as poorly as I have seen Argos fans treated in Hamilton.

As I said, good luck supporting the Tiger-Cats. I'll be impressed if you can lower yourself to their fans' level.

[R.J]

As for joining the Tiger-Cats...well, good luck with that.
I will NEVER do that.

At the Argos first game at THF last year, I was walking alone in the concourse, wearing my Argos jersey and hat. A father and son walk past me, hand in hand. Nice family image. The boy, who could be no more than 10 years old, says to me "Argos suck!" The father says nothing and they continue walking. Some 10 year old boy says this to a respectable looking 50 year old man and the father says nothing? Seriously?

At one of the displaced Argos games from last year at THF, I sat in one of the main sections in the lower level with Argos fans. I heard some young kid in the upper deck constantly yelling out "Argos suck!" as his dad sat there next to him. A few minutes later I hear the same kid doing the same thing, but this time only a few rows behind me. Incredible! This idiot man and his young son thought it would be a good idea to move into the middle of a crowd of Argo fans and do this. I turned around and glared at the kid for at least a full minute.
They wisely moved back to the upper deck before I took the issue further - which I would have.

Finally, I took my daughters to an Argos game at Ivor Wynne a few years ago. We had been to at least two previously. We ended up leaving at half time as my daughters didn't feel safe in that environment. My daughters enjoyed going to Argonauts games with me for several years as a family. That was the last time we have gone together to a game in Hamilton.

Last year was the last time I will attend a game in Hamilton, other than the Grey Cup in which the Argonauts are participating.
I have attended football games in Chicago (Bears, Northwestern University), Indiana (Notre Dame), and Buffalo (Bills). I have never seen opposing fans treated as poorly as I have seen Argos fans treated in Hamilton.

As I said, good luck supporting the Tiger-Cats. I'll be impressed if you can lower yourself to their fans' level.

Argos suck is all it took, really ?

Makes sense now why you disagreed with Marshall Ferguson saying that the Ticats should be rated higher - biases can cloud judgement.

[Bleeds Double Blue]

As for joining the Tiger-Cats...well, good luck with that.
I will NEVER do that.

I'm with you bro. I couldn't bring myself to cheer for Hamilton in an intersquad game and I'd rather cut out my tongue and join in with that idiotic oski-wee-wee chant.

[PullTogether73]

TBH, you sound a bit entitled.

I've been a STH for 11 years and a fan since the 1970s.
I haven't come close to experiencing the things that you have as an Argonauts fan.
Yes, somewhat disappointing with the Argonauts this year in several aspects, but it is the first year of new ownership and a new venue, plus hosting the Grey Cup. I think it is fair to give the new owners/managers a year to get their feet wet so to speak.

IMO, it's too soon to jump ship.
It is still being retrofitted.

[Scooter McCray]

I may not renew my seasons tickets that I have had since 1983. But I will definitely be going back to games on flex packs. I am still an Argo fan. It was a disappointing season on and off the field but I am not writing the team off and where there are opportunities try to communicate to the front office my thoughts I will do so as I have in the past. This team has given me plenty of positive moments and memories that still outweigh the last 2 seasons. The 100th GC win alone is worth a few crappy seasons. It sounds like you have had the benefit of some extra memories as well over the years that most people don't have. Good luck building new experiences with the new team. I don't believe they have won as many championships however.

[Mightygoose]

I guess can't ask where you're jumping ship to (black and gold perhaps?) or just off the ship completely.

It's really bad that it's come to this and hopefully if you are still a 'free agent' that it's not too late and hopefully the organization is reading these posts and taking them seriously.

Though they deserve the backlash, they'll be spending too much time on retention as opposed to building the fanbase up again.

I'd be curious to see how soon Mr. Copeland and/or Orridge reply. Hopefully they will. Please share

[argomANIA]

TBH, you sound a bit entitled.

You have a right to your opinion as I have to mine. That's the beauty of this country. Not sure how I sound entitled...I'm not asking for anything other than to be appreciated as a fan.

I guess can't ask where you're jumping ship to (black and gold perhaps?) or just off the ship completely.

It's really bad that it's come to this and hopefully if you are still a 'free agent' that it's not too late and hopefully the organization is reading these posts and taking them seriously.

Though they deserve the backlash, they'll be spending too much time on retention as opposed to building the fanbase up again.

I'd be curious to see how soon Mr. Copeland and/or Orridge reply. Hopefully they will. Please share

I will definitely share what I can. And yes....i moved over to the dark side. The black and gold.

[Argo57]

You have a right to your opinion as I have to mine. That's the beauty of this country. Not sure how I sound entitled...I'm not asking for anything other than to be appreciated as a fan.



I will definitely share what I can. And yes....i moved over to the dark side. The black and gold.

No need to apologize about the experiences you have enjoyed as an Argo fan Ania.
I had seasons in the Hammer last year, that organization understands their fan base and treats them very well.
Diehards like you leaving is both sad and alarming. I posted a week or two back about several of my work colleagues (also long time ST holders) not renewing in 2017, how will they replace these fans?

[PullTogether73]

You have a right to your opinion as I have to mine. That's the beauty of this country. Not sure how I sound entitled...I'm not asking for anything other than to be appreciated as a fan.

My point is that you have received a good deal more than virtually all long(er) term Argonauts fans.

We haven't received two free trips to the Grey Cup.
We weren't invited to drink from the Grey Cup by Argonauts players.
We didn't have Argonauts players attend any personal functions.

Yet, you seem to expect new owners/managers to provide you with some type of insider's privileges that you had under previous owners.
Maybe they don't know you yet.
Maybe they have been too busy with other things associated with taking over a team, moving that team to a new venue, getting licenses/approvals for a new game day function (tailgating), planning the league's championship game and festival.
Hence my comment about the new owners try to retrofit a listing ship.

I believe if you were to stick around and influence the changes you seek, along with the rest of us dedicated Argonauts fans, you would possibly be satisfied.

Was it a bad year for the Argonauts organization?
Clearly yes. Both on the field and off.
But it is the first year of a new "admiralcy".
I believe they deserve more than one year to get everything right for us.

Did Bob Young get everything right in his first year as owner of the Tiger-Cats?

[ArgoGabe22]

My point is that you have received a good deal more than virtually all long(er) term Argonauts fans.

We haven't received two free trips to the Grey Cup.
We weren't invited to drink from the Grey Cup by Argonauts players.
We didn't have Argonauts players attend any personal functions.

Yet, you seem to expect new owners/managers to provide you with some type of insider's privileges that you had under previous owners.

Don't think she's expecting any of this. I had perceived it as her just saying how hard it was to make the decision since she's had such experiences, plus that she's no fairweather fan.

I must admit, I thought player accessibility has been pretty poor this season. It's a league wide issue, more so with media though. It's definitely not what it once was but sometimes I don't know. Maybe because I was younger, perhaps I was more involved then? But it does seem that there are less and less opportunities as time goes by? I'm a pretty avid collector, hope to one day post everything I have, but this year I didn't get anything signed. Just couldn't get anything done outside of the practice times.

Thing is, ownership and Copeland are not new. New to the Argos but they must have had many discussions on the Argos when Copeland was the COO.

[doubleblue]

Don't think she's expecting any of this. I had perceived it as her just saying how hard it was to make the decision since she's had such experiences, plus that she's no fairweather fan.

I must admit, I thought player accessibility has been pretty poor this season. It's a league wide issue, more so with media though. It's definitely not what it once was but sometimes I don't know. Maybe because I was younger, perhaps I was more involved then? But it does seem that there are less and less opportunities as time goes by? I'm a pretty avid collector, hope to one day post everything I have, but this year I didn't get anything signed. Just couldn't get anything done outside of the practice times.

Thing is, ownership and Copeland are not new. New to the Argos but they must have had many discussions on the Argos when Copeland was the COO.

Maybe they thought the access the fans have now to the players coming out of their dressing room to the playing field was good enough.

[TheHammer]

Go to Regina or Winnipeg for the LDC or Banjo Bowl, it's just as bad.

Exactly. Every team has its rivalries and every fan base gets riled up for it. It happens. When you go to a Ticat-Argo game at THF, expect chants, booing Argos players and some good-natured taunts coming your way if you're wearing double blue. I remember the September 11th game at BMO where the Argos beat the Cats, Argo fans were chanting at us as we were leaving, and this was with my 7-year old son. It kinda ticked me off a bit, but it would never stop me from attending another game at BMO.



As for the 'Argos Suck' chant, it's not something I encourage my child to say just because I hate the word (don't know why). That being said, it's not profane. A little on the rude side, but anyone who hangs around kids knows how often they say the word 'sucks'. So a child yelling it at a football game, I honestly don't find it to be THAT offensive. If they were yelling 'Nobody blows like the Argos'... now THAT I would have a problem with. I remember watching an Argo game on TV a couple years ago and the camera showed youngster yelling at the ref from his seat (and what appeared to be a profanity if you can read lips). The camera was on the kid for like 2 minutes and the TV guys were laughing at him. I never thought 'Oh, man all Argo fans are horrible parents because of that one kids action'.

That latest edition of Pig Skin Pete honestly creeps me out.

Why? Dan's a good guy. Very personable and down to earth if you ever talk to him. Kinda miss the older guy with the fur coat and bowler hat, but whatever.

My point is that you have received a good deal more than virtually all long(er) term Argonauts fans.



We haven't received two free trips to the Grey Cup.

We weren't invited to drink from the Grey Cup by Argonauts players.

We didn't have Argonauts players attend any personal functions.



Yet, you seem to expect new owners/managers to provide you with some type of insider's privileges that you had under previous owners.

Maybe they don't know you yet.

Maybe they have been too busy with other things associated with taking over a team, moving that team to a new venue, getting licenses/approvals for a new game day function (tailgating), planning the league's championship game and festival.

Hence my comment about the new owners try to retrofit a listing ship.



I believe if you were to stick around and influence the changes you seek, along with the rest of us dedicated Argonauts fans, you would possibly be satisfied.



Was it a bad year for the Argonauts organization?

Clearly yes. Both on the field and off.

But it is the first year of a new "admiralcy".

I believe they deserve more than one year to get everything right for us.



Did Bob Young get everything right in his first year as owner of the Tiger-Cats?

This ^^



It took Bob 5-10 years to figure out how to run a franchise. He tried to think too 'out of the box' when he got rid of the traditional sports chain-of-command and basically made everyone the same level for all intents and purposes (which of course, leaves no one accountable). He tried to get rid of the 'Argos Suck' chant (not understanding his fan base and team culture right away). Of course, there was the Stadium debacle, and while Bob was not the only guilty party in all that, he made mistakes there, too. He eventually got everything figured out. We have a decent (albeit no-frills) new stadium, sellouts, and (in most years) a competitive football team) and the Cats are now considered one of the more stable franchises in the league. I go to games now, look around, see the youth in Ticat apparel, see the sellouts, and I couldn't be happier and more proud of how far my favourite organization has come.



So just wait it out, Argomania. If Bob Young can figure it out, then your ownership (who already partly owns multiple franchises) will as well. I've been to BMO, and it is beautiful (better than THF in some areas), you have a passionate fanbase (very visible and loud at the game I was at), and a team that I believe was better than its record this year. I think a lot of people thought it would happen overnight like in Montreal (the U2 concert at the Dome changed things there). It won't. It took years for this freefall to happen and it will take years for it to get built back up again (hopefully not as many years, though).



They WILL figure this out. Don't give up on them. As for the Ticats, we'd love to have you, but we're good. The Argos, however...they need you.

[shayman]

Why? Dan's a good guy. Very personable and down to earth if you ever talk to him. Kinda miss the older guy with the fur coat and bowler hat, but whatever.

Agreed, Dan is great, but I hope you realize that the "older guy with the fur coat", Paul Weiler, passed away a few years ago, after 31 years as Pigskin Pete.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/hamilt...sday-1.2762128

We always mocked his Oskee-wee-wee routine, but we secretly admired it.

[Neely2005]

Despite all his words to make season ticket holders a priority after all they've been through the last few years Michael Copeland failed miserably. There was almost 0 benefit to being a season ticket holder this season. We were treated worse than under Braley IMO.

[paulwoods13]

Maybe they had a lot of stuff to figure out in a short span of time, and as a result didn't achieve perfection in Year 1. Is there no patience in this world any more?