2016-2017 Offseason transactions

[paulwoods13]

Personally I'd rather have Kilgore in camp than Matthews, but realistically the open spot is the fourth-string role at this point. Ricky, Willy and Fajardo on the roster and one development/insurance guy.

[OV Argo]

Argos sign three from all big football programs (if that means much). They have also released Kilgore, whom AV predicted a week ago.

http://www.argonauts.ca/2017/04/03/a...rris-mcdaniel/

Interesting - another couple of signings in Brown & Harris with pretty decent NFL resumes. Wonder how many of these guys - including RB Hunter, DE Butler and the ex-Saints receiver who's name escapes me now ( guy had an eye-popping 39 yards/catch season for the Saints in some limited work there one season). Wonder how many of these guys end up on the Argo roster and can make an impact? Seems like good TC competition though in some areas of big need.

[Stevoman]

I'm okay with Kilgore being gone as I'd rather see them invest in Fajardo.

[gilthethrill]

I feel Kilgore had his chance to display his talent. Too bad he could not build on his 1st career start when he really helped the team beat Ottawa on the road to put them at 4-2.

[Shatto]

The team has signed a fair number of INT receivers --11 up to now. Many of them appear to have been quality players at one time and perhaps still are, so hopefully there will be some good competition The ex Saint's player is Morgan --he played 21 regular season games in the NFL. All told, 4 of the players were drafted and 5 have played regular season games in the NFL, anywhere from 3 to 26 games. Out of this group, the team should manage to find some very productive receivers. Could be a very interesting and entertaining training camp.

[dmont]

.

Thomas Gordon released:

http://www.cfl.ca/2017/04/13/argos-r...thomas-gordon/

[Wobbler]

I was looking for the phrase "...to pursue opportunities in the NFL" but didn't see it in that news blip for some reason. Sorry to see him go - I thought he was quietly effective at multiple positions.

[AngeloV]

I was looking for the phrase "...to pursue opportunities in the NFL" but didn't see it in that news blip for some reason. Sorry to see him go - I thought he was quietly effective at multiple positions.

Looked good early on, but like many others not so good when the team went south following a BS roughing the passer call in Winnipeg. Not that I'm bitter.

[gilthethrill]

I would like to take this time to thank Thomas Gordon for his efforts and wish him well in his future endeavors.

[doubleblue]

Gordon could hit no doubt about that. Would also make a good safety in time IMO, if he was a Canadian with time to develop. They must feel they have players in camp better suited for the new Defensive Coordinator's defense.

[ArgoGabe22]

I wasn't a huge fan of Gordon starting at LB. I hope they find a more "true" LB than just inserting a DB.

[1971GreyCup]

I wasn't a huge fan of Gordon starting at LB. I hope they find a more "true" LB than just inserting a DB.

I did like it when #10 Willie Pile moved up from DB.

[doubleblue]

I did like it when #10 Willie Pile moved up from DB.

Lol. Willie Pless was about the same size as Gordon and he played MLB. Different era though wasn't it.

[OV Argo]

Lol. Willie Pless was about the same size as Gordon and he played MLB. Different era though wasn't it.

Pless only played MLB later in his career - and IMO he was far better as an OLB - with the Argos and later with BC.

Wayne Harris is (IMO) maybe the all-time best CFL MLB and apparently he played there at around or under 200 pound range - amazing, but so-called "under-sized" players can still be league best; JC Sherritt is a very good CFL MLB (and his huge season with the Esks ranks up there with all-time great seasons by a CFL MLB) - he's quite small by pro MLB standards.

The CFL using smaller converted US college ball safeties as OLBs is good for the "different eras" story. Old offences might have licked their lips at the opportunity to pound the run game (with big TEs to block too) at lightweight OLBs, but that type of offensive adjustment is off the table now with same old look predictable offences and no use for an applied ground game.


Gordon seemed like a big hitter, but he was maybe more like a bit of a one big game wonder - he seemed lost or whiffed on tackles some other times; another Willie Pile or Marcus Ball would be nice to find though, let alone a Willie Pless.

[paulwoods13]

Wayne Harris is (IMO) maybe the all-time best CFL MLB and apparently he played there at around or under 200 pound range - amazing, but so-called "under-sized" players can still be league best; JC Sherritt is a very good CFL MLB (and his huge season with the Esks ranks up there with all-time great seasons by a CFL MLB) - he's quite small by pro MLB standards.

Not to take anything away from Wayne Harris, one of the all-time greats, but in his era everyone was way smaller than today. Linemen on both sides of the line played in the range of 220-235 pounds. There were no 300-pound, or even 275-pound, o-linemen to contend with.

[OV Argo]

Not to take anything away from Wayne Harris, one of the all-time greats, but in his era everyone was way smaller than today. Linemen on both sides of the line played in the range of 220-235 pounds. There were no 300-pound, or even 275-pound, o-linemen to contend with.

Yep - I keep NFL yearbooks I've bought going back to the early 80s: the average Canadian college ball O-line now is wayyy bigger than all NFL O-lines of back then (300 pounders are average now; 270+ was big for the pros back then and further); but big deal - most or all the O-lines of back then would have been closer to 300 to if they had today's applied diets/supplements and more & better weight training techniques and personal fitness gurus guiding them. Wayne Harris woulda/coulda have maybe played at 210 or something like that, but the point is he was quite small by MLB standards - of then even (and there were plenty of 240 - 260 range O-linemen to deal with then, plus big bruising fullbacks and large real tight ends). And if pro O-lines now average 50 or more pounds more than the standards of the 60s say, then shouldn't all MLBs now weigh in at around 260 or so to deal with them ? Linemen are where there is this large weight differential now compared to football past; other position groups are often in the same range (and in the CFL case with lightweight OLBs featured - they are often smaller).

[Argo57]

Yep - I keep NFL yearbooks I've bought going back to the early 80s: the average Canadian college ball O-line now is wayyy bigger than all NFL O-lines of back then (300 pounders are average now; 270+ was big for the pros back then and further); but big deal - most or all the O-lines of back then would have been closer to 300 to if they had today's applied diets/supplements and more & better weight training techniques and personal fitness gurus guiding them. Wayne Harris woulda/coulda have maybe played at 210 or something like that, but the point is he was quite small by MLB standards - of then even (and there were plenty of 240 - 260 range O-linemen to deal with then, plus big bruising fullbacks and large real tight ends). And if pro O-lines now average 50 or more pounds more than the standards of the 60s say, then shouldn't all MLBs now weigh in at around 260 or so to deal with them ? Linemen are where there is this large weight differential now compared to football past; other position groups are often in the same range (and in the CFL case with lightweight OLBs featured - they are often smaller).

Let's also add the fact that teams ran the ball more back in those days with a fullback leading the way so the linebacking position was just as demanding as it is today.
Guys like Dan Kepley, Danny Bass, Wayne Harris and the like could play in any era.

[argolio]

And if pro O-lines now average 50 or more pounds more than the standards of the 60s say, then shouldn't all MLBs now weigh in at around 260 or so to deal with them ?

Not with the passing game completely replacing the running game as the dominant form of offensive attack, and the greater emphasis on speed that began in the 80s. You also don't see huge NFL safeties like Steve Atwater or David Fulcher any more.

We're seeing something similar in the NHL as well, thanks to the post-lockout rule changes. Pittsburgh won the Cup last year in large part due to their speed advantage. No one could keep up with them.

[paulwoods13]

I have no idea whether a guy like Harris could play in today's game. MLBs back then did not have to deal with nearly as much passing as we see now, or as much motion. There was no "waggle" (running start), there was only one slotback, and no five- or six-pack receiver sets. The way offences play dictates the way defences deploy personnel and the schemes they use. The rise of DBs converted to LBs goes back about 20 years. I think Argos under Matthews were among the first to deploy guys this way. Again, not taking anything away from the heroes of the past -- they were the best at their position in their day, and in cases like Harris deserve to still be remembered among all-time greats. But could Harris do what MLBs are required to do now? I have no idea.

[Jon Gonzo]

I have no idea whether a guy like Harris could play in today's game. MLBs back then did not have to deal with nearly as much passing as we see now, or as much motion. There was no "waggle" (running start), there was only one slotback, and no five- or six-pack receiver sets. The way offences play dictates the way defences deploy personnel and the schemes they use. The rise of DBs converted to LBs goes back about 20 years. I think Argos under Matthews were among the first to deploy guys this way. Again, not taking anything away from the heroes of the past -- they were the best at their position in their day, and in cases like Harris deserve to still be remembered among all-time greats. But could Harris do what MLBs are required to do now? I have no idea.

To me, these are often pretty unfair comparisons and it makes sense to me that it all remains relative. I cannot imagine any reason why yesterdays greats, would not be just as great today. Weight can easily be manipulated by proper nutrition, training and by the leaps and bounds made in fitness and kinesiology.

Good players are good players. Systems come and systems go.