Jim Barker Relieved of his Duties

[argolio]

Are you seriously with a straight face comparing Jeff Tedford with Hall Of Fame QB Tom Clements? For your sake I certainly hope not, I would be worried about you

No one is comparing their playing careers. As for head coaching, Tedford has a record of 82-57 @ U of California (5-3 in bowl games), and Clements has never been a head coach.

[doubleblue]

For all we know, you're the person who added the info on wiki.

Just checked the wikipedia page, nothing on Clements and the Argos.

Bombers only ran 26 yards more than the Argonauts.

FWIW, I think Condell was a very good hire by the team IMO, and Chaps would have been my only other choice.

The Condell hiring on the surface seems like a questionable hire because of the timing. Could be he was hired to be Milanovich's new OC, but if he was that all changed when Milo bolted for the NFL. So with a new Head of Football Operations coming soon that may or may not change. At this stage of the off season a good experienced OC might be difficult to hire. But I don't expect any more news this week until after the Super Bowl.

[AngeloV]

The Condell hiring on the surface seems like a questionable hire because of the timing. Could be he was hired to be Milanovich's new OC, but if he was that all changed when Milo bolted for the NFL. So with a new Head of Football Operations coming soon that may or may not change. At this stage of the off season a good experienced OC might be difficult to hire. But I don't expect any more news this week until after the Super Bowl.

In the NFL, a lot of coaches have higher ranks than the GM. Such is the case in Hamilton with Austin as well. I would have no problem if Condell was named HC, and had input into the new GM. Very important to have a coach and GM that can work together.

[gilthethrill]

A potential Argo GM named Angelo....thoughts anyone?

[paulwoods13]

A potential Argo GM named Angelo....thoughts anyone?

As long as his first name and middle initial are not Frank D.

[RB957]

As long as his first name and middle initial are not Frank D.

Too funny!! if he did, the half-time entertainment would be covered, lol.

[Gill The Thrill]

A potential Argo GM named Angelo....thoughts anyone?

Jerry Angelo, former GM of the Chicago Bears from 2001-2011, a stretch that saw the Bears have some strong defensive teams, getting to the Super Bowl and losing to Indy in 2006, and reaching at least one, if not a couple of NFC championships. I know they lost one to Carolina at home in the 03-04 playoffs, and can't remember another one, if there was another NFC championship appearance. The Bears were mostly competitive and made the playoffs quite a bit in those years.

For having Rex Grossman and Jay Cutler as their starting QBs for most of his tenure, those results could be considered phenomenal.95-81 won-loss as the Bears GM, so that's better than Barker's below .500 record as Argo GM.

Angelo was also the Director of Player Personnel for the Tampa Bay Buccaneers from 1987-2000, and left after a change of ownership and with the Bucs being a very competitive team by the turn of the century. They would eventually win the Super Bowl within a couple of years of him leaving. His only CFL experience was as a Linebackers coach for the Calgary Stampeders under Jack Gotta in 1981. He is from Youngstown, Ohio, (hometown of Bernie Kosar) so he comes from football country and the part of America that can appreciate climate influenced games and the kind of guys needed to play in lousy cold, and wind weather games late in the season. Barker's powder puffs from the ACC, and the southeast, seemed like they'd forget how to catch or tackle in late season games.

It would be an interesting hire, and a guy that would definitely have contacts all over North America with regards to recruiting players.

[1971GreyCup]

I know that I have been critical of both JB and SM and certainly the ground underneath them shifted constantly during the tenure in Toronto, but I must say they get a failing grade on grooming their successors. On characteristic of a strong leader is their ability to hire qualified and quality subordinates who are ready to step up to the next level.

In both cases they didn't have assistants who would at least be considered as replacements. We are now going through the outcome of neither grooming their replacement. I can understand why they didn't help themselves get fired, but we are really in a mess here.

JB hired Spencer Zimmerman last spring. He is quite green and could develop in a future GM, but his resume indicates that he spent his first four years of his career as a player scout or coordinator of scouting. I believe there are a number strong Assistant GMs in the CFL groomed and are ready to step up to the position of GM.

SM coaching staff was considered a weak staff in 2016 and seems to lack any candidates apparently with the skills and resume to be considered HC candidates. Once again, that doesn't seem to be the case across the league.

I give them failing grades in this regard.

[AngeloV]

I know that I have been critical of both JB and SM and certainly the ground underneath them shifted constantly during the tenure in Toronto, but I must say they get a failing grade on grooming their successors. On characteristic of a strong leader is their ability to hire qualified and quality subordinates who are ready to step up to the next level.

In both cases they didn't have assistants who would at least be considered as replacements. We are now going through the outcome of neither grooming their replacement. I can understand why they didn't help themselves get fired, but we are really in a mess here.

JB hired Spencer Zimmerman last spring. He is quite green and could develop in a future GM, but his resume indicates that he spent his first four years of his career as a player scout or coordinator of scouting. I believe there are a number strong Assistant GMs in the CFL groomed and are ready to step up to the position of GM.

SM coaching staff was considered a weak staff in 2016 and seems to lack any candidates apparently with the skills and resume to be considered HC candidates. Once again, that doesn't seem to be the case across the league.

I give them failing grades in this regard.

I have no idea how you can grade them on grooming their successors. Milanovich had 2 of his coordinators leave to become head coaches elsewhere. Another 2 leave to become coordinators with Maas now a HC and Steinauer going to a Div 1 coaching gig.

Barker was also grooming Rosetti, who left for a huge opportunity in the NFL. Seriously, why the hate for these guys?

[1971GreyCup]

I have no idea how you can grade them on grooming their successors. Milanovich had 2 of his coordinators leave to become head coaches elsewhere. Another 2 leave to become coordinators with Maas now a HC and Steinauer going to a Div 1 coaching gig.

Barker was also grooming Rosetti, who left for a huge opportunity in the NFL. Seriously, why the hate for these guys?

AngeloV, please quit the hyperbole in your responses. I don't hate JB/SM but hate what has become of the Argos. Alternatively, I don't believe you love JB/SM either.

I am astonished that you believe that a successful business that doesn't groom for its own future contingencies of firing/losing of key talent? I can't tell you how happy I that the Dolphins have a great Argos Assistant Player Personnel and the Eskimos and Blue Bombers have great Argos HCs. Delighted that the Ticats and RedBlacks have sound staring Argos QBs going into 2017. Argos should be proud of what they are doing for the CFL.

By the way, I don't buy your argument above. In fact, the Latin phrase Post hoc ergo propter hoc fallacy comes to mind. For those unaware, it means "After this, therefore because of this".

I think Mike O'Shea's 15 years as a CFL player and 3 years as Argo STC coach before SM might have developed a pretty good football mind. The same with Jason Maas, IMO 13 years as a CFL QB and the final four years standing beside HOF Ricky Ray had more to do with his success than listening to the "QB Whisperer"

Also, do you really believe the lateral move by Chris Rosetti from Assistant Player Personnel at the Argos to the same position at the Miami Dolphins was huge? It is hardy Hugh Campbell taking over the Oilers. Hardly Trestman taking over the Bears?

I guess that SM's move from Argos HC to Jaguar's QB coach in the NFL is huge too and further proof of his record?

JB/SM were hardly a magnet for talent. Now that they are gone, what have they left the Argos got but 4 years of frustration and huge questions marks about the future?

I express huge frustrations and have done so for quite some time.

[AngeloV]

AngeloV, please quit the hyperbole in your responses. I don't hate JB/SM but hate what has become of the Argos. Alternatively, I don't believe you love JB/SM either.

I am astonished that you believe that a successful business that doesn't groom for its own future contingencies of firing/losing of key talent? I can't tell you how happy I that the Dolphins have a great Argos Assistant Player Personnel and the Eskimos and Blue Bombers have great Argos HCs. Delighted that the Ticats and RedBlacks have sound staring Argos QBs going into 2017. Argos should be proud of what they are doing for the CFL.

By the way, I don't buy your argument above. In fact, the Latin phrase Post hoc ergo propter hoc fallacy comes to mind. For those unaware, it means "After this, therefore because of this".

I think Mike O'Shea's 15 years as a CFL player and 3 years as Argo STC coach before SM might have developed a pretty good football mind. The same with Jason Maas, IMO 13 years as a CFL QB and the final four years standing beside HOF Ricky Ray had more to do with his success than listening to the "QB Whisperer"

Also, do you really believe the lateral move by Chris Rosetti from Assistant Player Personnel at the Argos to the same position at the Miami Dolphins was huge? It is hardy Hugh Campbell taking over the Oilers. Hardly Trestman taking over the Bears?

I guess that SM's move from Argos HC to Jaguar's QB coach in the NFL is huge too and further proof of his record?

JB/SM were hardly a magnet for talent. Now that they are gone, what have they left the Argos got but 4 years of frustration and huge questions marks about the future?

I express huge frustrations and have done so for quite some time.

Honestly, you make absolutely no sense. You were talking about development. The Argos lost 4 quality coaches that took position upgrades with other organizations. That is development which has unfortunate circumstances for the team. As far as Rosetti is concerned, if you want to call a move from the CFL to the NFL in player development a lateral move, you really don't know what you're talking about. The possibilities once you have your foot in the door in the NFL are endless.

It's pretty obvious to me that you only like people from the Argos organization that you have a positive personal relationship with.

[BATKINSON001]

Well the league gave the argos a sweet schedule for the first time in the 7 years I have been a season ticket holder... maybe there's still a chance we won't get screwed with the new gm.

[1971GreyCup]

Honestly, you make absolutely no sense. You were talking about development. The Argos lost 4 quality coaches that took position upgrades with other organizations. That is development which has unfortunate circumstances for the team. As far as Rosetti is concerned, if you want to call a move from the CFL to the NFL in player development a lateral move, you really don't know what you're talking about. The possibilities once you have your foot in the door in the NFL are endless.

It's pretty obvious to me that you only like people from the Argos organization that you have a positive personal relationship with.

Well folks, that's it for me on this forum. I don't need either the hyperbole nor the personal shots.

A last thought, Socrates was widely considered to be the wisest man in Ancient Greece because he knew nothing. Food for thought.

[AngeloV]

Well folks, that's it for me on this forum. I don't need either the hyperbole and nor the personal shots.

A last thought, Socrates was widely considered to be the wisest man in Ancient Greece because he knew nothing. Food for thought.

I don't think I was being offensive at all. I was just stating my observations.

[Antwon]

Well the league gave the argos a sweet schedule for the first time in the 7 years I have been a season ticket holder... maybe there's still a chance we won't get screwed with the new gm.

Agree with the schedule!! Too bad it will be a fourth place team playing.

[ArgoRavi]

The problem with Milanovich and Barker is that they only too well prepared people in the organization for other jobs. Most of the 2012-13 coaching staff have moved onto higher positions elsewhere. Hell, even the much-maligned Jaime Elizondo rehabilitated his career under Milanovich well enough to get a promotion in Ottawa.

[R.J]

Maas IMO is the only one you can give credit to Milanovich - Everyone else was either brought in by or developed by Barker or others.
I love what Maas has done with the Trestman/Milanovich offense: somehow he figured out you can be aggressive with it.

[paulwoods13]

Coaches "develop" every year, or else they don't last in the profession. I'm pretty confident all the coaches on that list would say they developed as coaches under Milanovich.

[Shatto]

Regardless of what one thinks of JM/SM, it is impossible not to be even more disappointed by the lackluster performance of Copeland. Other than introducing the tailgating(if it was his idea), it is difficult to think of anything that he has done successfully during his time with the organization. He had ample time to review the organizational structure and decide who should occupy the positions but he has appeared to dither away the opportunity to be ahead of the other teams and now we are well behind them. No matter how strongly one can argument for getting rid of JM/SM, it would seem that a much stronger argument could be put forth for firing Copeland. Maybe he will surprise us all and pull this mess out of the fire but based on his past performance, that appears to be highly unlikely.

[jerrym]

As I've noted before, I have mixed feelings about Barker, but one thing I will give in credit for is saying why can't the CFL tryout Canadian QBs more often in TC and then bringing in Danny Brannigan. This helped push the league towards its Canadian QB development program.