Looking at how Argos and other teams will build their National starter ratio

[jerrym]

3DownNation looks at how the Argos, as well as other teams, are likely to fill their required National starter positions compared to what they did last year.
This is the first of a three part series, in which each part covers three teams. The other teams covered in this article are the Riders and Bombers.
Below is the hypothetical Argo National starters, as well as last years equivalents.

The Argos’ roster may have been a mess last season, but the club’s Canadian content is nothing to shake a stick at.

2016 Ratio Structure

Position	Starter	Primary Back-Up
Slotback	Anthony Coombs	Andre Durie
Left Guard	Tyler Holmes	Wayne Smith
Centre	Sean McEwen	Wayne Smith
Right Guard	Corey Watman	D.J. Sackey
Right Tackle	Chris Van Zeyl	D.J. Sackey
Weak-Side Linebacker	Cory Greenwood	Thomas Miles
Safety	Matt Black	Jermaine Gabriel

Holmes and Van Zeyl are excellent Canadian hogs, while McEwen is an all-star in the making. The depth behind them is solid as well, with 2016 second and third round picks D.J. Sackey and Jamal Campbell waiting in the wings. Black and Gabriel are a formidable duo at safety, while Coombs, Brian Jones, and Llevi Noel (more on this group in a second) is a solid trio of young Canadian pass catchers.
The Argos will no longer be starting a Canadian in their linebacking corps following the departure of Cory Greenwood in free agency and the release of Thomas Miles. Instead, the club will likely turn to the receiving corps to meet the league’s minimum of seven Canadian starters in 2017.

2017 Ratio Projection

Position	Starter	Prospective Back-Up(s)
Wide Receiver	Llevi Noel	Malcolm Williams
Slotback	Brian Jones	Anthony Coombs, Ryan Nieuwesteeg
Left Guard	Tyler Holmes	D.J. Sackey, Chris Kolankowski
Centre	Sean McEwen	Corey Watman, Wayne Smith
Right Guard	Peter Dyakowski	J’Michael Deane
Right Tackle	Chris Van Zeyl	Jamal Campbell
Safety	Jermaine Gabriel	Matt Black, Matt Webster

The concern with starting two national receivers is Toronto’s lack of depth. Expect defensive tackle Daryl Waud or defensive end Ricky Foley to start in the event that the Argos lose a Canadian pass catcher to injury.
The Argonauts are without a first round draft pick this year, a major disadvantage for general manager Jim Popp as he works to rebuild his club’s roster. Toronto already has a large percentage of its cap dedicated to Canadian offensive linemen, but it’s not impossible to imagine Popp bringing in Jeff Perrett or Josh Bourke — both of whom are free agents who once played under Marc Trestman in Montreal — to start at left tackle. This would allow the Argos to start five Canadian offensive linemen, alleviating the pressure on its Canadian content elsewhere on the roster.

http://3downnation.com/2017/03/16/ra...bombers-argos/


IMO the loss of Greenwood and Miles leaving no National LB is big. On the other hand, I am really looking forward to a full season of Brian Jones at SB, but expect Coombs to be ahead of Noel, at this point in his career, although I think Noel has the potential to develop into a good receiver. It also possible that the Argos go with five Canadian OL instead of two Canadian receivers, although LT could well go International. Black ended the season as starter primarily because of Gabriel's injury, so I expect that to be reversed this year. Using 4 OL could also lead to a Foley/Waud National DL instead of a second National receiver.
Another possibility is to go with 8 Nationals, so it is easier during games to sub in an International.

[jerrym]

Below is 3Downnation's John Hodge's review of BC's, Calgary's and Eskimos National starter's ratio in 2016 and who he thinks these teams will use as their National starters to fill their ratio requirements.

http://3downnation.com/2017/03/15/ra...west-division/

[AngeloV]

Not wanting to be an A-hole, but some might suggest it's what I do best. I can't help but laugh at some of these bloggers. The guy projects 7 Canadian starters, 6 of which are on the offensive side of the ball. I guarantee the Argos will have at least 1 D-lineman starting (Likely Foley) and perhaps 2 if Waud turns heads with the new regime. To suggest Noel starts over Coombs is quite a reach in my opinion.

[OV Argo]

Not wanting to be an A-hole, but some might suggest it's what I do best. I can't help but laugh at some of these bloggers. The guy projects 7 Canadian starters, 6 of which are on the offensive side of the ball. I guarantee the Argos will have at least 1 D-lineman starting (Likely Foley) and perhaps 2 if Waud turns heads with the new regime. To suggest Noel starts over Coombs is quite a reach in my opinion.

Basically agree AV - not overly impressed with some of the commentators on that site; spew a lot of cliches that they've heard from CFL "expert" sources.

I wonder if Foley is going to survive the new regime though; Jimmy P has been known for cutting bigger salaries of some vets, and Foley did seem to have faded a bit last season; still a vet who could provide leadership, but if the starting DE spots are pencilled-in for imports, I could see Foley being let go in a cost saving move.
Waud at DT- backed by or even passed by a good DT out of a strong crop there this draft, might be more likely for one starting NI spot on D, with Gabriel holding down the other? Then, 4 NI O-linemen, plus one receiver (Jones likely or maybe Noel if they want it to be the wide-side WR as the "NI receiver" spot) would get to 5 on offence. I highly doubt Coombs gets a starting receiver spot in the new offence and that Durie hybrid slot position could be replaced by a more traditional slotback; Coombs might still be viewed as a good versatile player who could fill in at both RB and receiver ?

[AngeloV]

Basically agree AV - not overly impressed with some of the commentators on that site; spew a lot of cliches that they've heard from CFL "expert" sources.

I wonder if Foley is going to survive the new regime though; Jimmy P has been known for cutting bigger salaries of some vets, and Foley did seem to have faded a bit last season; still a vet who could provide leadership, but if the starting DE spots are pencilled-in for imports, I could see Foley being let go in a cost saving move.
Waud at DT- backed by or even passed by a good DT out of a strong crop there this draft, might be more likely for one starting NI spot on D, with Gabriel holding down the other? Then, 4 NI O-linemen, plus one receiver (Jones likely or maybe Noel if they want it to be the wide-side WR as the "NI receiver" spot) would get to 5 on offence. I highly doubt Coombs gets a starting receiver spot in the new offence and that Durie hybrid slot position could be replaced by a more traditional slotback; Coombs might still be viewed as a good versatile player who could fill in at both RB and receiver ?

Foley as an advantage in the fact that he has played and played well under Chamblin in the past.

[Will]

Foley as an advantage in the fact that he has played and played well under Chamblin in the past.

That is true--he had John Chick alongside him though in Regina, and for whatever reason Tristan Okpalaugo or Shawn Lemon on the other end didn't seem to free up any space for him.

[Argo57]

Not wanting to be an A-hole, but some might suggest it's what I do best. I can't help but laugh at some of these bloggers. The guy projects 7 Canadian starters, 6 of which are on the offensive side of the ball. I guarantee the Argos will have at least 1 D-lineman starting (Likely Foley) and perhaps 2 if Waud turns heads with the new regime. To suggest Noel starts over Coombs is quite a reach in my opinion.

I actually think you're a pretty decent asshole Angelo!!👍😛

[Argo57]

Basically agree AV - not overly impressed with some of the commentators on that site; spew a lot of cliches that they've heard from CFL "expert" sources.

I wonder if Foley is going to survive the new regime though; Jimmy P has been known for cutting bigger salaries of some vets, and Foley did seem to have faded a bit last season; still a vet who could provide leadership, but if the starting DE spots are pencilled-in for imports, I could see Foley being let go in a cost saving move.
Waud at DT- backed by or even passed by a good DT out of a strong crop there this draft, might be more likely for one starting NI spot on D, with Gabriel holding down the other? Then, 4 NI O-linemen, plus one receiver (Jones likely or maybe Noel if they want it to be the wide-side WR as the "NI receiver" spot) would get to 5 on offence. I highly doubt Coombs gets a starting receiver spot in the new offence and that Durie hybrid slot position could be replaced by a more traditional slotback; Coombs might still be viewed as a good versatile player who could fill in at both RB and receiver ?

Foley should be nervous heading into camp, his play was rather ordinary last season but in fairness would like to see how he does in camp with some better talent around him and new D system.

[doubleblue]

Basically agree AV - not overly impressed with some of the commentators on that site; spew a lot of cliches that they've heard from CFL "expert" sources.

I wonder if Foley is going to survive the new regime though; Jimmy P has been known for cutting bigger salaries of some vets, and Foley did seem to have faded a bit last season; still a vet who could provide leadership, but if the starting DE spots are pencilled-in for imports, I could see Foley being let go in a cost saving move.
Waud at DT- backed by or even passed by a good DT out of a strong crop there this draft, might be more likely for one starting NI spot on D, with Gabriel holding down the other? Then, 4 NI O-linemen, plus one receiver (Jones likely or maybe Noel if they want it to be the wide-side WR as the "NI receiver" spot) would get to 5 on offence. I highly doubt Coombs gets a starting receiver spot in the new offence and that Durie hybrid slot position could be replaced by a more traditional slotback; Coombs might still be viewed as a good versatile player who could fill in at both RB and receiver ?

You're agreeing with Angelo? lol Ok I just reread the first six words. lol

I do agree that Trestman will probably go with a Canadian spot on the DLine, and I thought that Foley might be the odd man out. But then I read where he played most of last year with a foot injury that hampered his play. Foley if healthy could still be a factor IMO. I have always liked Waud's potential and still think he could be a starter in the CFL. I also liked Walker when he played at Guelph as a pass rusher. Maybe after a couple of years learning the other parts of the game he is ready for some playing time. Findley played fairly well for the Alouettes in his time there so should be a good depth player. Laing is still out there waiting on the NFL I guess, but if he could be re-signed I could see two Canadian starter spots being on the DLine. Also by the time Popp gets around to picking in the draft a DLineman might well be the best player still available. IMO three Canadians on defense. Gabriel at safety and two DLine starter spots. A dominant Import DT would really help solidify the DLine.
But I think IMO it is pretty obvious for the ratio they will go with four Canadians on the OLine, Jones at one slot back position and then the fullback/Slot/WR rotation of Cross, Coombs and Noel. A possible 9 Canadian starter positions going into TC and let things play out from there.

[jerrym]

The last article in the three part 3DownNation series on likely National starters for the Als, Ticats and Redblacks can be found at:

http://3downnation.com/2017/03/17/ra...redblacks-als/

[AngeloV]

I actually think you're a pretty decent asshole Angelo!!👍😛

Thanks. Believe it or not, I'm flattered.

[OV Argo]

Foley should be nervous heading into camp, his play was rather ordinary last season but in fairness would like to see how he does in camp with some better talent around him and new D system.

Might depend on how ex-NFL pass rush DE/LB guy Victor Butler does in Argo TC?

Have to think Lemon is a lock at one DE spot? If Butler looks like a force and they start 2 import DEs, does Foley get kept around for depth and vet leadership? - he might have to take a pay hair-cut ?

[Wobbler]

I'm not sure that we can afford to get rid of Foley yet. IMO:

Guys that I want to start:
Gabriel (S)
Holmes (G)
McEwen (C)
The best of Deane, Dyakowski, Watman, and Sackey (G)
Jones (SB)

Guys that would probably be fine as starters:
Foley (DE)
Coombs (SB)
van Zeyl (T)

If we can't find a starting role for Coombs in the new offense or CVZ isn't good enough any more, we'd *need* Foley. There are lots of possibilities of course: maybe some of Campbell/Noel/Waud/Walker have great camps and earn spots or by some miracle we draft someone who's ready, etc.

[1971GreyCup]

Certainly it looks like at the least, the Argos won't have a focus on Foley this year. Their focus, based on the players taken this week to Regina appear to be Ricky Ray, Drew Willy, Shawn Lemon, Anthony Coombs, Brian Jones, Jeff Fuller, Winston Venable.

http://m.torontosun.com/2017/03/19/c...-to-fans-media

[OV Argo]

I'm not sure that we can afford to get rid of Foley yet. IMO:

Guys that I want to start:
Gabriel (S)
Holmes (G)
McEwen (C)
The best of Deane, Dyakowski, Watman, and Sackey (G)
Jones (SB)

Guys that would probably be fine as starters:
Foley (DE)
Coombs (SB)
van Zeyl (T)

If we can't find a starting role for Coombs in the new offense or CVZ isn't good enough any more, we'd *need* Foley. There are lots of possibilities of course: maybe some of Campbell/Noel/Waud/Walker have great camps and earn spots or by some miracle we draft someone who's ready, etc.

IMO - a DT spot should be able to be manned by a NI - there is no proven starter there period, and Waud might be able to step-it up; + backed by or even passed by a good DT from a deep crop there this year (hoping Vaughn or Luke will still be available at #10).

I'd guess Van Zeyl might start at OT and one job there might be pencilled-in for a NI as part of the 7 only thinking? - wonder if Trestman/Popp might give a call to one of their old starting OTs - either Bourke or Perrett - to see if they can be an upgrade over Van Zeyl ? Why not - TC competiton.

I really doubt Coombs holds down a starting slot position now; going to be either Jones at slotback or Noel at wide-side WR at a "NI receiver" spot.

Love to see Foley rebound and have another good season as a starting DE, but I have a feeling it will be 2 import starting DEs.

NIs - 4 O-linemen + one receiver on O; and then only 2 needed on D - safety + either a DT or DE ???

[Stevoman]

Certainly it looks like at the least, the Argos won't have a focus on Foley this year. Their focus, based on the players taken this week to Regina appear to be Ricky Ray, Drew Willy, Shawn Lemon, Anthony Coombs, Brian Jones, Jeff Fuller, Winston Venable.

http://m.torontosun.com/2017/03/19/c...-to-fans-media

Looks like Venerable will be #21 this season which makes sense as 31 is retired.

[jerrym]

The Argos are minimizing the loss of the first overall draft choice, arguing that they already have depth among their Nationals. While some if this is no doubt PR and the Argos do have some National starters, they do need to improve their National talent.

With no pressing needs, Zimmerman says the Argos are in good shape when it comes to their Canadian content.
“I think prior to me arriving, the guys here right now — Vince Magri and Curtis Rukavina and the rest of that staff — did a great job of having deep Canadian talent,” said Zimmerman. “If you look across the board right now, we’re in a pretty good position with the depth we have to continue to layer that depth.” ...

“We’re not really in a position of feeling the need to have a starter because we have a lot of quality Canadian starters right now and I think that’s a luxury for us going into that process – finding and looking for the best football players to continue to fill in and make the team that much more competitive.”
Jermaine Gabriel, Ricky Foley, Anthony Coombs, Brian Jones, Chris Van Zeyl, Sean McEwen and Tyler Holmes can be penciled in as definite starters for the Boatmen. J’Michael Deane, Corey Watman, Llevi Noel, Daryl Waud will also play prominent roles.

http://www.cfl.ca/2017/03/20/no-firs...gos-zimmerman/

[Wobbler]

IMO - a DT spot should be able to be manned by a NI - there is no proven starter there period, and Waud might be able to step-it up; + backed by or even passed by a good DT from a deep crop there this year (hoping Vaughn or Luke will still be available at #10).

It would be nice if we could start a NAT DT, but we've made no moves to support that strategy in free agency and I'm not optimistic that any of the draftees will be ready to contribute. Is Waud ready to be an effective starter? I can't tell, but it seems like no better than a possibility right now.

It's been a few years since we started two NAT receivers (Durie and Watt, in 2014, I believe), but I think it will happen. We'll almost certainly be going for eight NAT starters, and based on what we know now I think it'll be the eight guys I listed.

[Jon Gonzo]

Certainly it looks like at the least, the Argos won't have a focus on Foley this year. Their focus, based on the players taken this week to Regina appear to be Ricky Ray, Drew Willy, Shawn Lemon, Anthony Coombs, Brian Jones, Jeff Fuller, Winston Venable.

http://m.torontosun.com/2017/03/19/c...-to-fans-media

CFL *focus* can be like the kiss of death in Toronto. It's like winning the Jack Adams as a Coach of the Year in Hockey. Look at the rosters the other teams are sending, and it really illustrates how much continuity (essential in a migratory-type league like the CFL) has been lacking in Toronto for the past 2-3 seasons. Cory Greenwood cited it as part of his decision, and it's time to turn the corner. Jim Barker used to say it was one of his #1 goals, but then got away from it as Toronto has become a less than desirable place to play. Thankfully, we have a couple of men who can turn this program around.

Now, I also understand the realities of the CFL, but the best teams are stocked in important spots, with long term players; however, Rickey Foley is aging --- and has had a chronic foot malady.

Can he hold off an Import Edge Rusher this year at 35 years of age? Can he be kept as a rotational guy making what he makes? Could he get a challenge in from Cam Walker?

CVZ and Rickey Foley will need to perform to hold on in this coming Training Camp. That's if they even make it there. There positions on the money ball chart look precarious.

[jerrym]

CFL *focus* can be like the kiss of death in Toronto. It's like winning the Jack Adams as a Coach of the Year in Hockey. Look at the rosters the other teams are sending, and it really illustrates how much continuity (essential in a migratory-type league like the CFL) has been lacking in Toronto for the past 2-3 seasons. Cory Greenwood cited it as part of his decision, and it's time to turn the corner. Jim Barker used to say it was one of his #1 goals, but then got away from it as Toronto has become a less than desirable place to play. Thankfully, we have a couple of men who can turn this program around.

Now, I also understand the realities of the CFL, but the best teams are stocked in important spots, with long term players; however, Rickey Foley is aging --- and has had a chronic foot malady.

Can he hold off an Import Edge Rusher this year at 35 years of age? Can he be kept as a rotational guy making what he makes? Could he get a challenge in from Cam Walker?

CVZ and Rickey Foley will need to perform to hold on in this coming Training Camp. That's if they even make it there. There positions on the money ball chart look precarious.

Under Barker, the Argos have too often let key personnel go by letting key personnel leave too often, even taking into account that CFL free agency is always going to result in losses.