Is the CFL Screwing Canadian QBs?

[ArgoGabe22]

Like I said before here - maybe some should think of joining an Argo/CFL homer cheer-leader love fest type site, where all is positive and no real debate or dissenting opinions are tolerated. rdavies and others seem quite capable of carrying on a rational discussion on this subject; others get all bent out of shape when they read something they don't want to hear.

LOL. No comment.

[OV Argo]

We now have two Canadian head coaches in Wally Buono and Mike O'Shea, along with Rick Campbell who spent many of his formative years around the CFL. As far as Canadian GMs go, we have Kyle Walters in Winnipeg, Marcel Desjardins in Ottawa, and, until recently, Buono for many years in B.C. We also are seeing an increase in Canadian assistant GMs/player personnel coordinators, including Spencer Zimmerman in Toronto, Drew Allemang in Hamilton, Miles Gorrell in Montreal, and Ted Goveia in Winnipeg. The Canadian content in key positions has increased dramatically in recent years and in a place like Winnipeg, there is a strong CIS influence and yet we haven't seen much in the way of a CIS QB getting a chance there. I wonder why.

You can wonder all you wish Ravi; let's see what you might conclude - hee, hee: the Bombers are a current example of such great Canadian football guys getting to run a CFL team - such radical, fresh thinkers who show such a different CFL approach to their game style & roster thinking; they wish a Canadian QB was "good enough" to make their team or even warrant a try-out ( and they had a CIS QB in TC a couple of years ago), but sadly, there just isn't.

And meanwhile, back in Paris - BC hired Ed Hervey as GM; the Als have Kavis Reed as GM who hired an American HC with zero Canadian ball experience; the Bombers have retained LaPolice & Richie Hall as OC & DC; and Edmonton, Saskatchewan, Calgary, Hamilton and Toronto all have American GMs & HCs and mostly Americans on their coaching staffs. Yep - the Canadian football background and influence in the CFL now is just astounding. ;o)

[R.J]

rdavies and others seem quite capable of carrying on a rational discussion on this subject; others get all bent out of shape when they read something they don't want to hear.

At least you stated rdavies and others.........................

How many Americans in a CFL TC for try-outs compared to Canadians? How many starting positions are pencilled-in for Americans only on a typical CFL team/roster ? (17 out of 24 = 70%); how many import players, including PRs, on a CFL roster compared to Canadians now ? And most important in the equation - what percentage of a typical CFL team's decision makers (GM, HC, director or personnel, and all coaching staff) now is American vs. Canadian ?

No American favourtism in the CFL though, eh, er, huh?

Sorry - total typical whiny, cry-baby stuff that comes up every time CFL expansion is mentioned - created by gob team shills and lapped -up and parrotted by their dupes in the media - "oh, there is not enough Canadian talent to go around the CFL with another team" = total, unmitigated crock of horse-$hite. So noted where you get your CFL ideas from mostly. I was around watching a 9 team CFL when there were more Canadians than imports on rosters; and the Canadian talent pool has arguably grown larger & stronger (more CIS teams including powerhouse Laval, Vanier winning Montreal and the Regina Rams who have produced several NFL players); Junior ball still going strong (Andrew Harris is the best RB in the league; Zack Evans one of the top DTs); and still lots, if not more than ever, Canadian players getting to play US college ball. The Canadian talent pool could stock a CFL with 60% or more Canadian players on rosters (IMO); we'd have to do without a few Khalil Padens or Ken Bishops or Moises Madus or Matthew Shitzs though - what a bummer that would be.

[OV Argo]

At least you stated rdavies and others.........................

I'm sure you are free and capable to carry on the debate/discussion on this subject.

Like demonstrating that Canadian football produces very little talent for the CFL, with lots of examples or stats to back it up; or provide decades worth of first hand accounts of all the CIS QBs you've seen play and how terrible they were; or how you've talked to all sorts of CFL scouts about Canadian QBs or how you've seen them under-perform in all sorts of CFL TCs. Please don't bother talking "average" CIS players or how superior the American football system in general is; try some specifics and personal observations, and not reciting what you read from an expert media source.

OR - you could just resort to calling me a tin-foil hat wearing conspiracy theorist who should not be watching CFL football and should start a boycott of the league? ;o)

[R.J]

I'm sure you are free and capable to carry on the debate/discussion on this subject.

Like demonstrating that Canadian football produces very little talent for the CFL, with lots of examples or stats to back it up; or provide decades worth of first hand accounts of all the CIS QBs you've seen play and how terrible they were; or how you've talked to all sorts of CFL scouts about Canadian QBs or how you've seen them under-perform in all sorts of CFL TCs. Please don't bother talking "average" CIS players or how superior the American football system in general is; try some specifics and personal observations, and not reciting what you read from an expert media source.

OR - you could just resort to calling me a tin-foil hat wearing conspiracy theorist who should not be watching CFL football and should start a boycott of the league? ;o)

I don't recall stating that, but okay.

[AngeloV]

I don't recall stating that, but okay.

Pretty sure he's referring to me on that one.

[Will]

This is an Argos fan site, which doesn't mean people should tow the line, but if one decides to do so then should that really be a surprise?

[jerrym]

Ambrose says the league needs a comprehensive strategy involving the league's partners to help in the development of Canadian CFL QB. Such a strategy would be an improvement but so would making a Canadian QB count in the ratio. Is the league mouthing platitudes or is it actually going to do something about the situation?

Bridge carried the flag into battle against Montreal on Saturday night, making just his third start in four years. It was a brief and unsuccessful appearance. Some observers, such as TSN broadcaster and former Canadian Football League safety Glen Suitor, said it was too brief.“Because it’s a Canadian quarterback, there is less patience,” Suitor said as Bridge’s replacement David Watford struggled through the second half and the Riders lost to the Alouettes. ...


Because Bridge is a Canadian quarterback, there is certainly more attention from fans, pundits and the league itself. And something might just come from it.
“One of the things we have not done a lot of as a league is we have not had a comprehensive football development strategy for the nation,” CFL commissioner Randy Ambrosie told Postmedia during a pre-season interview. I think we’ve got to sit down with all of our partners. We just sit down with Football Canada and have a conversation. How do we grow the game? How do we get more kids playing? You’ve got to get massive participation in the game because that’s going to get your best athlete. Your best athletes are going to choose to play this sport and what will emerge out of that is going to be a slew of people who might be that next superstar quarterback.”
History shows that athlete is more likely to be an offensive lineman. ...

The ratio argument has been raised, debated, discounted and debated some more. It was raised by Bridge in an off-season chat with Ambrosie. It was raised again on Twitter even as Bridge was struggling against Montreal. ...


In the absence of administrative advantage, the alternative is more and better development at the grassroots level to ensure an increase in numbers at the pro level. Stampeders quarterback Bo Levi Mitchell notices a huge skills deficit at the youth camps he works in Calgary. ...


That part of the numbers game will always favour the development of Americans. But Ambrosie isn’t prepared to accept defeat.
He said the league needs to invest more thought and resources before reaching any conclusions on the long-term fate of the Canadian quarterback.
“We have to set some big, hairy, audacious targets for participation and we have to invest in that as a country and as a football ecosystem,” he said.
“I think then and only then can we ever know just how many Canadian quarterbacks we can ultimately see starting and contributing to the CFL, because we just haven’t done enough at this stage.”

[OV Argo]

Don't see how Ambrosie or anybody else can force biased GOBs whose minds are firmly made up on the subject, to give Canadian QBs real shots to compete in CFL TCs. That's what it boils down to IMO: no real shot to compete with a real try-out in a CFL TC for a team in QB need = no chance to make a roster or ever get to play.

All this - we need more kids playing is total Bull$hite IMO and another in a long series of excuses on the file. Mercer Timmis & Sean Thomas Erlington seem to be doing just fine at running back for the Ticats when they were given try-outs, made the roster and a shot at playing, inspite of their oh so lacking training & "development".

[jerrym]

Chris Jones alternated QBs between Brandon Bridge and David Watford seven times in the Riders-Ticats game, reminding me of the year that the Argos continually alternated between Tom Wilkinson and Don Jonas in 1970. While the Argos finished second in the East at 8-6, the ongoing alternation of QBs resulted in no consistency in the offence. Considering the fact that Tom Wilkinson went on to a CFL Hall of Fame career and five Grey Cups with Edmonton while Jonas went on to win the CFL MOP award with Winnipeg, I don't think Jones' strategy is going to work out in terms of getting the best out of either Bridge or Watford, especially when considering they are inexperienced QBs compared to the Wilkinson/Jonas combo in Toronto who were established professionals.

Even more concerning is the difference in performance level of Watford and Bridge. While Bridge started and went 11/13 for 101 yards, Watford was 3/6 for 47 yards. Neither was great but Bridge appeared better and continually yanking him out of the game seems to me likely to do little for his consistency, confidence or development.

[SkalbaniasGhost]

Ambrose says the league needs a comprehensive strategy involving the league's partners to help in the development of Canadian CFL QB. Such a strategy would be an improvement but so would making a Canadian QB count in the ratio. Is the league mouthing platitudes or is it actually going to do something about the situation?

The CFL has been mouthing platitudes for 60 years(Expansion, Roster Size, TV/Streaming, Wages,Football Canada/USports/Amateur relationship) regardless of topic.The names/faces/nationalities change but your still left with finger pointing/shrugging of shoulders/collective indifference.It's not just The CFL but the amateur classifications as well.The game of football succeeds in Canada in spite of itself.Lots of talented, able folks who let ego/outsiders dictate the fortunes of this beautiful game.I don't see things changing with Braley and the 3 prairie amigos calling the shots.
Their is a glimmer of hope with Mike O'Conner(UBC),Chris Merchant(Western), and Adam Sinagra(Calgary) getting drafted next year.

[ArgoRavi]

I don't think that we can sugarcoat how poorly Bridge has played so far this season. He played over half of the Ottawa game and has started each of the past two games and performed quite poorly. He needs to step his game up if he wants to be considered a starting QB at this level.

[jerrym]

I don't think that we can sugarcoat how poorly Bridge has played so far this season. He played over half of the Ottawa game and has started each of the past two games and performed quite poorly. He needs to step his game up if he wants to be considered a starting QB at this level.

In both starts Bridge was yanked from the game: in the first one at half time; in the second one because of seven changes in QB between Bridge and Watford. During the first game, Glen Suitor described how many American QBs were given many games to develop over the years, a sharp contrast with what happened to Bridge. After the second game, Matt Dunigan, a Hall of Fame QB, and Henry Burris, a future Hall of Fame QB, said that any QB would have trouble establishing a rhythm during a game with so many QB changes. Milt Stegall added that throughout the game Dunigan and Burris were continually complaining when not on air about the rapid switches between QBs reducing the chances of this being successful. Stegall then went on to say that the good thing for the Riders was that they won the game, but the bad thing for the Riders was that they won the game because it meant that Chris Jones would continue to quickly alternate QBs in future games.

Bridge also led the team down the field from the Rider 33 yard line to score the winning TD with less than two minutes to go, showing that he did not panic under the pressure.

[jerrym]

I also posted most of this in a couple of posts under Nathan Rourke in the "Other Sports Room", but I think it is highly relevant to this thread.

Nathan Rourke ran for 2 TDs and passed for another while throwing for 206 yards and rushing for 44 yards in leading Ohio University to a 27-0 victory over San Diego State yesterday in the Frisco Bowl.

Before the start of the 2018 season, Nathan Rourke made the list of 26 QBs to Watch for the Davey O'Brien Award, which is given to the QB judged to be the best in the NCAA each year. The list of previous winners includes many QBs who played in the CFL or NFL, including quite a few who became stars,
Here's the preseason QBs to Watch list (http://daveyobrienaward.org/2018/07/...es-26-players/)
Below is the description of Rourke associated with the 26 QBs to Watch based on his 2017 performance.

Rourke, a native of Oakville, Ontario, Canada, had a breakout sopohomore season as he led the Bobcats to a 9-4 overall record, including a 41-6 win over UAB in the Bahamas Bowl. In 13 games, Rourke set a school record with 21 rushing touchdowns with 137 carries for 912 yards rushing. Rourke threw for 2,203 yards and 17 touchdowns passing on 161-of-292 pass attempts. He was named All-MAC Second Team last year and also set school records with 132 points scored, 22 touchdowns scored and was responsible for 39 touchdowns.

https://getsomemaction.com/news/2018...atch-list.aspx

While Rourke obviously did not win the Davey O'Brien Award, his stats improved in every category in again leading Ohio to a 9-4 record and he was also selected as one of the top 8 QB performers in the NCAA by the Davey O'Brien Award committee in week five of the 2018 season (http://daveyobrienaward.org/2018/10/...ed-for-week-5/)


There is more good news when it comes to Rourke and Ohio University. Nathan's brother, Kurtis, another QB, has just signed to play with Ohio. Thanks to Nathan, Kurtis didn't have to go through what Nathan did to sign with a Division I team. Despite an outstanding high school career in Burlington and Oakville, Nathan had to go play in an Alabama high school in his senior year to get any attention in the US college system. Despite doing an outstanding job there, he could only get Fort Scott community college to sign him. Despite another outstanding season, Ohio University was one of the few Division I schools interested in Nathan.

Nathan Rourke’s long, roundabout, highlight-rich trip to the NCAA is complete: The Canadian quarterback has officially committed to play Div. I football at Ohio University.
Rourke played at three different schools the last three years in order to earn a scholarship. First he led Oakville’s Holy Trinity Titans to their first OFSAA bowl championship in 2014. Then he guided Edgewood Academy to a 13-0 record and a Class AA Alabama state championship one year ago. After that he paced the Kansas Jayhawk Community College Conference with 2,367 passing yards in 11 games this fall. ...

A recruiting whirlwind followed, but the second part of his plan proved tougher to accomplish.
“I talked to UCLA, Missouri, Rice and FAU, a bunch of schools, but one way or another the door shut on me for different reasons,” Rourke says.
When the opportunities with Div. I programs dried up, Rourke decided to go the junior-college route and attend Fort Scott Community College in Kansas, which has seen the likes of first-team NFL players Jason Pierre-Paul and Lavonte David come through the program recently.
The six-foot-two, 215-lb. quarterback passed for 2,367 yards with 18 touchdowns and 13 interceptions, which earned Rourke a first-team All KJCCC nod at QB. ...

The Canadian quarterback wants to break down barriers for pivots from the north. “That’s the motivation. That’s what wakes you up in the morning. It’s hardly done in the CFL, and that’s our league—there’s no Canadian quarterbacks starting. In the NFL Canadian quarterbacks just doen't happen. In the NCAA, it’s rare.”

https://www.sportsnet.ca/football/nf...io-university/

It's been just the opposite with Kurtis, as many Division I schools pursued him after playing at Holy Trinity in Oakville without having to go the US. However, he quickly decided to sign with Ohio. On the game broadcast last night, the announcers said Ohio plans to have Kurtis redshirt next year while his brother plays in his senior year, which still allows Kurtis to play in a couple of games, then play full-time in his redshirt freshman year with the expectation of him becoming the team's starting QB eventually. Even Nathan had to wait behind American QBs as they repeatedly failed to produce last year, until he led the team to come-from-behind victories as a backup.

Since the NCAA has woken up to Canadian QB talent, I think it's about time the CFL did too.

The first url shows highlights of Kurtis Rourke's 2018 season with Oakville. The second url has a review of his skills.

https://a.hudl.com/profile/5350951/Kurtis-Rourke

https://canadafootballchat.com/ohio-...kurtis-rourke/

[OV Argo]

Rourke is arguably the best Canadian US college ball trained QB since Jesse Palmer (and arguably a more complete QB too) or Gerry Datillio way before that.

As far as this file goes - we shall see if any of Hugo Richard, O'Connor, Adam Sinagra or Chris Merchant get any sort or real CFL TC shot for next season (we'll also see how Picton fares - reps in TC or ex. game playing time).

Rourke would be up next year after that (if he gets no NFL interest).

There is also outstanding young athletic QB Tre Ford with Waterloo who put some superb passing & rushing stats this season - for down the road.

Time will tell; i guess; maybe, eh or huh ? ;o)

[jerrym]

Rourke is arguably the best Canadian US college ball trained QB since Jesse Palmer (and arguably a more complete QB too) or Gerry Datillio way before that.

As far as this file goes - we shall see if any of Hugo Richard, O'Connor, Adam Sinagra or Chris Merchant get any sort or real CFL TC shot for next season (we'll also see how Picton fares - reps in TC or ex. game playing time).

Rourke would be up next year after that (if he gets no NFL interest).

There is also outstanding young athletic QB Tre Ford with Waterloo who put some superb passing & rushing stats this season - for down the road.

Time will tell; i guess; maybe, eh or huh ? ;o)

The absolute minimum the CFL should do is having Canadian QBs count as a National in the ratio.

[OV Argo]

The absolute minimum the CFL should do is having Canadian QBs count as a National in the ratio.

According to a riderfans expert - that is a done deal in the next CBA ?

Don't see how it will change anything on the file? A CFL team could maybe have a Canadian 3rd string QB = big deal; means one less back-up NI LB or receiver who only plays special teams - the Canadian QB could do that (like Prukop did).

Real try-outs at the position are another matter.

[Argo57]

The absolute minimum the CFL should do is having Canadian QBs count as a National in the ratio.

Done, plain and simple.
Also factor in the possible exodus of CFL QB talent and you would think this would force teams to start considering some Canadian QB’s in their rosters.

[j-ski]

According to a riderfans expert - that is a done deal in the next CBA ?

Don't see how it will change anything on the file? A CFL team could maybe have a Canadian 3rd string QB = big deal; means one less back-up NI LB or receiver who only plays special teams - the Canadian QB could do that (like Prukop did).

Real try-outs at the position are another matter.

If they made the change, even if I was an American biased coach, I could see the advantage of having a third string Canadian quarterback. Put the Canadian quarterback in on certain packages, and put in an extra American receiver, running back or lineman. A quarterback like Western's Chris Merchant (or Waterloo's Tre Ford in a few years) would have the speed and toughness to actually be option type quarterback in some packages.

[doubleblue]

Finally got to see Rourke play last week end. Looks like the real deal and could eventually have a good chance of starting for a CFL team. But if he has a good Senior year in 2019 will probably get some NFL interest.

Was disappointed Irons didn't see any action as apparently their original #1 RB Ouelette got the call after being injured earlier in the year. Ouelette is a good back but I don't think he is a game breaker. Would be a good second RB in the CFL if he was a Canadian. Maybe Irons can do the same thing and he is a lot bigger at about 230.