Is the CFL Screwing Canadian QBs?

[rdavies]

The Canadian Football League: The Phoenix of Professional Sports Leagues by Steve O'Brien

Thanks for the link, it looks familiar, and the preview allows you to read much of the book, which I will. Around the link you posted are small snippets of former Canadian college QB stories. It looks like the criteria the author uses for Canadian QB is like mine (CIAU/CIS/USports) I believe he said Russ Jackson had the last meaningful chance to be a starter. Although I'd like to agree with the sentiment, I suppose it comes down to the definition of the word meaningful and Canadian (trained) QB. Gerry Dattilio and Luc Tousignant had shots as did Greg Vavra who attended UofC.

But I will say I don't think there has been a concerted or much of an effort to try and find a Canadian trained QB and put him in the position to succeed long term.

Also I've read a quote like this several times in my travels over the years.

Guilio Caravatta: If a rookie from Notre Dame makes a mistake, "He's learning." If a Canadian does the same, "He can't play."

Commissioner Randy are you listening? Canadian QB = Jackie Robinson.

[Wobbler]

That analogy is pretty insulting to anyone familiar with the life and legacy of Jackie Robinson, rdavies. I hope you're joking...

[jerrym]

I actually believe that day is coming. Buckley was No. 2 in Calgary and might have ended up starting somewhere had he not retired. O'Connor looks like an outstanding prospect (who IMO might get an NFL shot next year) and there are a few others coming through CIS who could knock that door down. The fact that the NFL is now taking the kinds of QBs who used to have to come to Canada (e.g. Russell Wilson) makes it necessary for CFL teams to widen their search. I really believe that Picton's invitation to camp was not just a PR move. Whether he'll end up as one of the QBs here all year remains to be seen, but I won't be surprised if he does (especially if we trade one of the other guys to Mtl or Wpg).

I agree that there may be an opportunity for a Canadian QB to be successful in the CFL soon. Besides Picton in 2018, and O'Connor who is draft eligible in 2019, there is Nathan Rourke from Oakville in 2020. Although he is playing Division I football at Ohio University, "he shone in minor football and high school in Burlington and Oakville, ON, then transferred to Edgewood Academy in Alabama for his senior year and promptly threw 59 touchdown passes with just three interceptions, 3,789 passing yards and a 75 per cent completion rate while helping his team win the state championship." (https://ca.sports.yahoo.com/blogs/cf...034127104.html).

This led to his signing with Kansas City Community College where his 2,367 passing yards earned him a scholarship at Ohio University. In his 2017 sophomore year (his first at this level) Rourke led his team to a Bahamas Bowl victory and an 8-4 record, and rushed for 912 yards, second in the nation among QBs, and first among Division I QBs. NFL Draft Scout already ranks him #23 out of 86 QBs in American college ball (http://draftscout.com/ratings/dsprof...2020&genpos=QB)

Rourke rushed for multiple touchdowns in seven outings, including four occurrences of three rushing touchdowns in a game. He eclipsed the 100-yard mark on the ground five times, with his career-high 165 taking place at InfoCision Stadium in Akron.
The first-year starter was a solid passer too. Rourke threw for 2,203 yards and 17 touchdowns, while only tossing seven interceptions. His accuracy varied from week-to-week, but with a year of experience under his belt, Rourke should definitely make progress in this category in 2018.

https://www.hustlebelt.com/2018/1/16...w-ohio-bobcats


He knows he has to work on his passing footwork, but the Ohio HC says he was the first player to show up at their first meeting with a notebook in hand, taking notes on how to improve, showing his dedication to doing just that. He is also no longer under the NFL radar.

With two more years to polish his game, Rourke could be a steal in the 2020 NFL Draft.

https://herosports.com/college-footb...onference-aiai


He wants to play in the NFL but if that doesn't work out he would come to the CFL. Hopefully, if that happens, teams won't just look at his rushing stats and say let's make him a RB.

The tweet below shows highlights of 2017 season.

Nathan Rourke Official Sophomore Highlights!

🔥@nathan_rourke🔥

Stats:
====
Pass Yds: 2203
Pass TD: 17
Rush Yds: 912
Rush TD: 21 pic.twitter.com/fRZPrKYNP5

— the CNtaco (@theCNtaco) April 16, 2018

[rdavies]

That analogy is pretty insulting to anyone familiar with the life and legacy of Jackie Robinson, rdavies. I hope you're joking...

I am very familiar with the life of Jackie Roosevelt and am certainly not joking. Canadian QBs were certainly frozen out and paid lip service if they even got that.

If you want to draw exact parallels, re threats and the racial element, of course they're not the same, but they are pretty analogous otherwise.

[ArgoGabe22]

If you want to draw exact parallels, re threats and the racial element, of course they're not the same, but they are pretty analogous otherwise.

This exactly why Canadian QBs are not like Jackie Robinson. Until the day they get threatened or spat on, you can’t make that comparison. There’s also been “trailblazers” before with Canadian QBs, such as Russ Jackson and some are in the league today like Brandon Bridge and Buckley before retiring. It’s not like we’re still waiting for the first QB to break the nationality barrier.

[AngeloV]

My own personal opinion is that there is no bias. Whether some want to admit it or not, Usport does not prepare for a QB to be ready for the CFL without a long development period. The game is just not as fast as the NCAA game. I would say most teams are not willing to pay a player for 3 or 4 years while he develops into game readiness, and most Usport athletes aren't willing to go 3 or 4 years without receiving decent pay.

[rdavies]

It’s not like we’re still waiting for the first QB to break the nationality barrier.

And if you know your history Jackie Robinson wasn't the first black to play organized ball with whites.

First black player in major leagues? Hint: It wasn't Jackie Robinson
Zach Helfand LA Times.com Sep 20, 2014

[ArgoGabe22]

And if you know your history Jackie Robinson wasn't the first black to play organized ball with whites.

First black player in major leagues? Hint: It wasn't Jackie Robinson
Zach Helfand LA Times.com Sep 20, 2014

Does it really matter? Canadian QBs = Jackie Robinson is such a huge stretch.

[rdavies]

My own personal opinion is that there is no bias. Whether some want to admit it or not, Usport does not prepare for a QB to be ready for the CFL without a long development period. The game is just not as fast as the NCAA game. I would say most teams are not willing to pay a player for 3 or 4 years while he develops into game readiness, and most Usport athletes aren't willing to go 3 or 4 years without receiving decent pay.

Disagree with first part of paragraph. Johnny TiCat is now acclimatizing himself to what USports QBs already know, how to deal with an extra player and the length of the play clock. I didn't take the time to figure out if the NCAA play clock, which was once 25 seconds, is now the same as the NFL. If so, there is a rest/reset period.

As for the game not being as fast, if we consider the size of the field and size of the players geared to said field let's take into consideration the quote I posted previously from Adam Bighill "The NFL (American) game is more physical. However coming from the CFL, the NFL Game to me is slower. I can play extremely fast since my eyes and reactions have been trained to see more and quicker in the CFL.

Also, with the field being wider, there’s more space to cover. You have to really excel as an athlete to cover man to man up there, as well as just running sideline to sideline to make plays."

As for the next part, teams are willing to have someone stick around but agreeing with you on the last point, are the Canadian kids going to stick around?

[rdavies]

Does it really matter? Canadian QBs = Jackie Robinson is such a huge stretch.

Basically the same principle to me, just a matter of if someone wants to factor the humanity to the argument.

[AngeloV]

Disagree with first part of paragraph. Johnny TiCat is now acclimatizing himself to what USports QBs already know, how to deal with an extra player and the length of the play clock. I didn't take the time to figure out if the NCAA play clock, which was once 25 seconds, is now the same as the NFL. If so, there is a rest/reset period.

As for the game not being as fast, if we consider the size of the field and size of the players geared to said field let's take into consideration the quote I posted previously from Adam Bighill "The NFL (American) game is more physical. However coming from the CFL, the NFL Game to me is slower. I can play extremely fast since my eyes and reactions have been trained to see more and quicker in the CFL.

Also, with the field being wider, there’s more space to cover. You have to really excel as an athlete to cover man to man up there, as well as just running sideline to sideline to make plays."

As for the next part, teams are willing to have someone stick around but agreeing with you on the last point, are the Canadian kids going to stick around?

I love Canadian University ball, but I have to disagree with you big time on your assessment of speed and learning curve. There aren't any NCAA DB's running 5.0 in the 40. There are plenty running that in Usport.

[OV Argo]

This exactly why Canadian QBs are not like Jackie Robinson. Until the day they get threatened or spat on, you can’t make that comparison. There’s also been “trailblazers” before with Canadian QBs, such as Russ Jackson and some are in the league today like Brandon Bridge and Buckley before retiring. It’s not like we’re still waiting for the first QB to break the nationality barrier.

No. it's not blatant racism and spitting on people; but the analogy to prejudice in the sports world is quite relevant here.

Again - the comparison has been made to the situation that African American QBs used to face in the NFL - they were thought of as inherently inferior and not worth real try-outs to compete for a job. Former Ticat QB Don MacPherson (Black American QB) made the comparison when he was in the CFL and saw the treatment Canadian QB team-mate (name escapes me now - back-up with the Stamps for a bit too). A lot of that NFL prejudice is gone - we see all kind of Black QBs gets shots or playing time there now, But not gone in the good ole "radically canadian" CFL - what a f***ing joke.

What's maybe not insulting, but more like amusing or stupefying to me, is CFL GOB apologists who refuse to acknowledge or see the blatant institutionalized bias against Canadian QBs by the clique of CFL decision makers - and it's been going on for decades now with no real sign of change (Bridge or Buckley = big deal; outstanding CIS QBs (see Hugo Richard this year) get totally ignored by CFL GOBs, year in year out). And instead total stiff American QBs (Shiltz, Davis, Lindley ??? - LOL; the guy Chris Jones started in the recent ex. game ??? - what a joke) instead get dragged up here or repeat shots year after year. Sorry chums - there is no denying this.

[OV Argo]

Jesse Lumsden, Andrew Harris, Andy Fantuz, Antoine Pruneau, Ricky Foley, Brett Jones, Sean McEwen, Henoc Muamba, etc. etc. etc. = all couldn't possibly hope to compete in the CFL - why the speed & skill level of the game they grew up playing just wouldn't allow it; ooops, wait - it only counts for QBs - how convienient and logical (for GOBs)

[rdavies]

I love Canadian University ball, but I have to disagree with you big time on your assessment of speed and learning curve. There aren't any NCAA DB's running 5.0 in the 40. There are plenty running that in Usport.

The average player on every play runs a straight line 40? You might be confusing speed with quickness and or anticipation. Some people have the ability to get to a point quicker and it`s not always speed of foot.

[ArgoGabe22]

My own personal opinion is that there is no bias. Whether some want to admit it or not, Usport does not prepare for a QB to be ready for the CFL without a long development period. The game is just not as fast as the NCAA game. I would say most teams are not willing to pay a player for 3 or 4 years while he develops into game readiness, and most Usport athletes aren't willing to go 3 or 4 years without receiving decent pay.

I'm with you on this one. Some can't admit that yes, U sport football may not be as competitive, nor does it allow players to really fine tune their skills. Especially when the usual teams blow everyone away. I would also go further to say that football in Canada, especially at the youth level doesn't really allow QBs develop unless such prospect is committed to both HS and summer league, as well as attending camps. I'm willing to bet that an American QB will have way more football reps than a Canadian.

[rdavies]

Some can't admit that yes, U sport football may not be as competitive, nor does it allow players to really fine tune their skills. Especially when the usual teams blow everyone away. I would also go further to say that football in Canada, especially at the youth level doesn't really allow QBs develop unless such prospect is committed to both HS and summer league, as well as attending camps. I'm willing to bet that an American QB will have way more football reps than a Canadian.

Well colour me confused

[OV Argo]

I'm with you on this one. Some can't admit that yes, U sport football may not be as competitive, nor does it allow players to really fine tune their skills. Especially when the usual teams blow everyone away. I would also go further to say that football in Canada, especially at the youth level doesn't really allow QBs develop unless such prospect is committed to both HS and summer league, as well as attending camps. I'm willing to bet that an American QB will have way more football reps than a Canadian.

Laval QB Hugo Richard was CIS rookie of the year and has been a top notch starter for 4 years - including play deep in the play-offs every year for a top notch program (and winning a Vanier) = he has wayyyyyy more college ball playing time than the typical American QB CFL GOBs like to look at, not to mention experience in the Canadian game vs. total neophytes the GOBs favor, I'm not expecting you to grasp this however.

[ArgoGabe22]

Well colour me confused

They can have a U-19 team, a very select team that may win but doesn’t mean anything in regards to football development at the grassroots level. Have you seen HS football or youth summer rep teams? Have you seen the coaching they get and the amount of games they play? For example, high school football around the GTA is getting more difficult to develop because of policies limiting when teams can practice and when equipment can be used. In comparison, American counterpart most likely has trained for longer and receives better coaching. American football culture is also a plus.?Perhaps not at a specialized U-19 national team but for the average player, Canadians aren’t exposed to football enough. Some teams only play 4-5 games a season. And why are young Canadians like Dejon Brissett and Juwan Brescacin (former players of ours) opting to finish their high school in the states? Or why are there now Canadian prep schools scheduled to play against American high schools?It’s much better for their development and so is the NCAA in comparison to U Sports. Canada has talent but sometimes can’t help them further develop. But it’s ok, there’s nothing wrong with the system - coaches are just “racist”.

[ArgoGabe22]

Laval QB Hugo Richard was CIS rookie of the year and has been a top notch starter for 4 years - including play deep in the play-offs every year for a top notch program (and winning a Vanier) = he has wayyyyyy more college ball playing time than the typical American QB CFL GOBs like to look at, not to mention experience in the Canadian game vs. total neophytes the GOBs favor, I'm not expecting you to grasp this however.

Better resume, better training, better competition, more meaningful experience. Manziel or Richard?

[rdavies]

For example, high school football around the GTA is getting more difficult to develop because of policies limiting when teams can practice and when equipment can be used. In comparison, American counterpart most likely has trained for longer and receives better coaching.

NCAA is much more restrictive than USports in the amount of time a coach can spend with a player.