Is the CFL Screwing Canadian QBs?

[rdavies]

Better training

Any proof on that one? There are a whole buncha NCAA schools.

[OV Argo]

Better resume, better training, better competition, more meaningful experience. Manziel or Richard?

Better training, better resume, better competition, more meaningful experience. Andrew Harris or Moises Madu ? How bout Khalil Paden or Andy Fantuz? or Laurent Duvernay-Tardif or the American who started at guard for the Argos last season ?

[ArgoGabe22]

Better training, better resume, better competition, more meaningful experience. Andrew Harris or Moises Madu ? How bout Khalil Paden or Andy Fantuz? or Laurent Duvernay-Tardif or the American who started at guard for the Argos last season ?

Thought we were talking QBs. And all 3 examples have had good careers. Not like Paden, Madu have put them out of work becuase GOBs prefer them over a good Canadian player.

Paden got his CFL shot after a good Arena season. Someone like Madu has most likely received better training/coaching since highschool all the way to Oklahoma. That doesn't mean Madu is better, just exposed to a better environment, being around better players and coaches. Madu played in the Big 12 for a very good program playing alongside DeMarco Murray. Sorry but that beats junior football in Canada.

LDT only played 2 years of highschool, which is very common in Canada. Therefore, an American playing longer would be given much more opportunities/reps/exposure to improve and really have a professional coach work with them longer.. LDF is also a freak and became a hot prospect after switching over from the D-line. You can't coach someone to grow to 6'5.

[ArgoRavi]

Former Ticat QB Don MacPherson (Black American QB) made the comparison when he was in the CFL and saw the treatment Canadian QB team-mate (name escapes me now - back-up with the Stamps for a bit too).

The late Bob Torrance?

[paulwoods13]

Laval QB Hugo Richard was CIS rookie of the year and has been a top notch starter for 4 years - including play deep in the play-offs every year for a top notch program (and winning a Vanier) = he has wayyyyyy more college ball playing time than the typical American QB CFL GOBs like to look at, not to mention experience in the Canadian game vs. total neophytes the GOBs favor, I'm not expecting you to grasp this however.

I would be interested in seeing a scouting report on Richard. The fact he has played well for Laval does not automatically make him a good pro prospect. I'd like to know how he grades in all of the things QBs are graded on. The fact that Buckley made a roster and Picton received a camp invitation would seem to suggest that his birth certificate is not the only thing holding him back. Who knows -- maybe he speaks only French (which would make it impossible to be a QB in the CFL).

[AngeloV]

The average player on every play runs a straight line 40? You might be confusing speed with quickness and or anticipation. Some people have the ability to get to a point quicker and it`s not always speed of foot.

Not going to get into it anymore. You have your beliefs, I have mine.

[AngeloV]

Better training, better resume, better competition, more meaningful experience. Andrew Harris or Moises Madu ?

Well, if you really want to get into it, there average stats are quite similar. Madu's career rushing avg is 4.9 to Harris' 5.2 and his receiving yards avg is 10.2 to Harris' 9.4. Pretty similar, only that one has received the opportunity more than the other. Madu is also a great pass protector.

[R.J]

I'm confused by what this thread has become about: Are some actually trying to state that Usports is just as good and talented as the NCAA ? (Never mind that there are 200+ NCAA and II programs, and let's not mention the population base difference)


There's no question that some good players come out of Usports or even the CJFL (Andrew Harris), but for every Fantuz and Sinopoli, there's a Green, Walker, Burnham, Arceneaux, Ellingson, Saunders, Tasker, Adams, Carter, Roosevelt, and Jackson.

[Flutie]

I'm confused by what this thread has become about: Are some actually trying to state that Usports is just as good and talented as the NCAA ? (Never mind that there are 200+ NCAA and II programs, and let's not mention the population base difference)


There's no question that some good players come out of Usports or even the CJFL (Andrew Harris), but for every Fantuz and Sinopoli, there's a Green, Walker, Burnham, Arceneaux, Ellingson, Saunders, Tasker, Adams, Carter, Roosevelt, and Jackson.

Yes and 3down nation raised the question a couple of weeks ago, where are the Canadian receivers?
Among current Canadian receivers, is Sinopoli who was a 1,000 yard guy with 91 catches and he missed 3 games. The closest Canadian receiver was Feoli-Guidino who had less than half that. Most teams will start ONE Canadian receiver but Ottawa likely to start two.

[OV Argo]

I'm confused by what this thread has become about: Are some actually trying to state that Usports is just as good and talented as the NCAA ? (Never mind that there are 200+ NCAA and II programs, and let's not mention the population base difference)


There's no question that some good players come out of Usports or even the CJFL (Andrew Harris), but for every Fantuz and Sinopoli, there's a Green, Walker, Burnham, Arceneaux, Ellingson, Saunders, Tasker, Adams, Carter, Roosevelt, and Jackson.

Defenders of the GOB standard party line faith wanting to talk generalizations or average players and cliches rather than specifics ??? Somebody wants to totally write-off all CIS QBs and Hugo Richard as a CFL QB prospect just because he didn't receive American training? My response is what about Andrew Harris or Andy Fantuz or Henoc Muamba or Duvernay-Tardif who didn't receive American training either ??? And here's a little hint or clue for you cliche speak types - the CFL isn't interested in the "average" player who may have competed against some weaker competition in CIS ball - they are interested in the cream of the crop from that level of football though; AND - the very best from that talent pool is often easily/clearly better than some of the American talent from NCAA ball (who also competed against some very average to weak talent there) that the CFL attracts. Sorry bout that though.

Andrew Harris vs. Moises Madu ??? - I almost fell off my chair LMFAO on that one. They're not even on the same planet in terms of RB talent - zero question; and Harris came out of Canadian Junior Ball while Madu had all-american super-hero training. That should be just impossible ... to football fairy tale believers.

[OV Argo]

The late Bob Torrance?

Yep - thanks Ravi

[R.J]

Defenders of the GOB standard party line faith wanting to talk generalizations or average players and cliches rather than specifics ??? Somebody wants to totally write-off all CIS QBs and Hugo Richard as a CFL QB prospect just because he didn't receive American training? My response is what about Andrew Harris or Andy Fantuz or Henoc Muamba or Duvernay-Tardif who didn't receive American training either ??? And here's a little hint or clue for you cliche speak types - the CFL isn't interested in the "average" player who may have competed against some weaker competition in CIS ball - they are interested in the cream of the crop from that level of football though; AND - the very best from that talent pool is often easily/clearly better than some of the American talent from NCAA ball (who also competed against some very average to weak talent there) that the CFL attracts. Sorry bout that though.

Andrew Harris vs. Moises Madu ??? - I almost fell off my chair LMFAO on that one. They're not even on the same planet in terms of RB talent - zero question; and Harris came out of Canadian Junior Ball while Madu had all-american super-hero training. That should be just impossible ... to football fairy tale believers.

I stopped reading at GOB.

[OV Argo]

I would be interested in seeing a scouting report on Richard. The fact he has played well for Laval does not automatically make him a good pro prospect. I'd like to know how he grades in all of the things QBs are graded on. The fact that Buckley made a roster and Picton received a camp invitation would seem to suggest that his birth certificate is not the only thing holding him back. Who knows -- maybe he speaks only French (which would make it impossible to be a QB in the CFL).

Picton is easier to write-off because he is 5-9; say a few nice things about him and then - we gave the little guy a shot but he's just too small and not good enough for the pros.

Richard is 6-2, 220 and has a gun for arm strength; he is right up there with Picton in CIS career passing stats - both have close to all-time best career completion percentages. And Richard has the far superior QB rushing/scrambling stats including 26 rushing TDs in four (regular) seasons of play; and he led his team to 2 Vanier Championship games and won one of them.

Buckley fluked out for a CFL look, in that somebody from the Stamps (I'll guess Dickenson) had repeat chances to hear of, and see the guy play right in their own backyard and took some notice/interest. The QB clueless Als already have shown they have zero interest in outstanding QBs from their backyard - passing lately on Gabe Cousineau (Carabins Vanier winner) and now Richard for even a TC look. No surprise with the likes of the Wet&alls and Mavis Reed running that team. But they will give repeat looks to stiffs like Shiltz - who have that oh so superior training of course.

[R.J]

So someone like Richard is simply better than a "stiff" like Shiltz because he played in the elite USports ? lol

[rdavies]

So someone like Richard is simply better than a "stiff" like Shiltz because he played in the elite USports ? lol

Yeah, but you guys have provided no qualitative proof that he is worse. I have to agree with some of what OV is saying. You guys are just stating platitudes with no proof. How is NCAA better coaching? How can there be such a thing as better coaching? What is the definition of that? If you mean by numbers, sure I'll grant you just because of population there would far more high quality American coaches than in Canada. But once you reach an elite level what is the difference? Do guys who coached or played in the CFL suddenly become geniuses if they go to the NFL? A guy who coached at UPEI and then Lakehead becomes NBA D-League Coach of the Year and then joins the Celtics. Did he learn all those Xs and Os when he went to America?

[AngeloV]

It must really suck to take a negative slant on everything.

[rdavies]

It must really suck to take a negative slant on everything.

If you're talking to me, it must suck to regurgitate old generalizations without revisiting them to see if there is any truth in it. Do you guys know anything about how much time the "superior" NCAA coaches can spend with their "supermen" in waiting? And how it is limited.

I still haven't heard how a kinesiologist and a gym are so different in the NCAA as to provide better training or is there some Harry Potter school of coaching for NCAA coaches, do they use different Xs and Os? If you're saying more=better, I'll agree with you, if not, you haven't come up with one point to prove your ageless generalizations.

[OV Argo]

I stopped reading at GOB.

Good for you pal - and FYI I don\t pay attention to anything you have to say here.

[R.J]

Good for you pal - and FYI I don\t pay attention to anything you have to say here.

Clearly you do, because you seem to reply to a lot of my posts.

[OV Argo]

Clearly you do, because you seem to reply to a lot of my posts.

I should give up on trying to correct all the generalizations and platitudes that rdavies is referring to here.

Nobody, me included, said Richard is this great CFL QB in waiting who is better than the likes of proven stiffs like Shiltz or Davis who are getting repeat CFL looks; the point is - Richard, and a whole bunch of other top stat or all-star CIS QBs get zero CFL chance to even try-out in TC, while tons of young American QBs do - year in, year out in the CFL. Again - I don't expect your types to really grasp this.