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    I would not be against Jock Climie. Someone else said Duane Forde is a better speaker than Jock. Disagree. Climie is a way better speaker than Forde. And he's a lawyer. I don't know how great he would be as a businessman or business partner with the 9 owners, I'll leave that up to them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jerrym View Post
    Climie has the communication skills, as well as the knowledge for Canadian football to be successful. Being a lawyer would also be helpful with the legal aspects of being CFL commissioner.
    What legal knowledge is needed in that position? I'm pretty sure most of the (many) commissioners this league has had have not been lawyers. The need to understand law is far outweighed by the need to understand how to run and grow a business, IMO.
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  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by paulwoods13 View Post
    What legal knowledge is needed in that position? I'm pretty sure most of the (many) commissioners this league has had have not been lawyers. The need to understand law is far outweighed by the need to understand how to run and grow a business, IMO.

    I don't know, but I know that John Adams, Thomas Jefferson, John Quincy Adams, Barrack Obama, Bill Clinton, FDR and Abe Lincoln were all Lawyers.
    They seemed to be able to manage big stuff.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jon Gonzo View Post
    I don't know, but I know that John Adams, Thomas Jefferson, John Quincy Adams, Barrack Obama, Bill Clinton, FDR and Abe Lincoln were all Lawyers.
    They seemed to be able to manage big stuff.
    Sure, and there have also been lawyers who ran successful enterprises. Just as there have been lawyers who failed in politics and business.

    I don't think a law degree is going to be on the CFL's list of desired attributes, nor should it be. A lawyer might turn out to be a good commissioner, but anyone -- lawyer or otherwise -- who isn't good at running a complex business will almost certainly fail.
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  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by paulwoods13 View Post
    Sure, and there have also been lawyers who ran successful enterprises. Just as there have been lawyers who failed in politics and business.

    I don't think a law degree is going to be on the CFL's list of desired attributes, nor should it be. A lawyer might turn out to be a good commissioner, but anyone -- lawyer or otherwise -- who isn't good at running a complex business will almost certainly fail.

    Well, sure, but you didn't say 'lawyer or otherwise.' Your point was that being a lawyer doesn't automatically qualify someone to up to the task of running a large business. My counter-point is that is doesn't disqualify you either; therefore, why make that the basis of your argument in the first place?

    I am sure we agree; it'll take a good person with good vision and the ability to sell it while managing 9 distinct Governors on the board. Law tends to be one of the jobs that is a benefit to a resume in this regard.

    As this pertains to Jock Climie, it would be a benefactor. We already know he's bright, enthusiastic, he knows the game, and he can communicate. Day to day good businesses are run by VP's anyway. This would be essential regardless. This is also why I believe that Pinball could handle this roll. He'd SELL the game.

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jon Gonzo View Post
    Well, sure, but you didn't say 'lawyer or otherwise.' Your point was that being a lawyer doesn't automatically qualify someone to up to the task of running a large business. My counter-point is that is doesn't disqualify you either; therefore, why make that the basis of your argument in the first place?

    I am sure we agree; it'll take a good person with good vision and the ability to sell it while managing 9 distinct Governors on the board. Law tends to be one of the jobs that is a benefit to a resume in this regard.

    As this pertains to Jock Climie, it would be a benefactor. We already know he's bright, enthusiastic, he knows the game, and he can communicate. Day to day good businesses are run by VP's anyway. This would be essential regardless. This is also why I believe that Pinball could handle this roll. He'd SELL the game.
    I never said being a lawyer disqualified anyone. I said: "The need to understand law is far outweighed by the need to understand how to run and grow a business, IMO." I stand by that. Does Climie understand how to run and grow a business? If so, then he might be a viable candidate. But being a lawyer does not in itself mean he understands how to run and grow a business. I respectfully disagree that knowledge of the law has any particular benefit in the commissioner's role. The league can engage the services of commercial and labour lawyers for whatever legal issues it deals with.
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    Quote Originally Posted by paulwoods13 View Post
    I never said being a lawyer disqualified anyone. I said: "The need to understand law is far outweighed by the need to understand how to run and grow a business, IMO." I stand by that. Does Climie understand how to run and grow a business? If so, then he might be a viable candidate. But being a lawyer does not in itself mean he understands how to run and grow a business. I respectfully disagree that knowledge of the law has any particular benefit in the commissioner's role. The league can engage the services of commercial and labour lawyers for whatever legal issues it deals with.
    Like I said, I don't completely disagree. There are good lawyers and bad lawyers. There are good businessmen and bad businessmen. There are good people and there are bad people. The only thing that I don't agree with is the slant that being a lawyer -- makes no difference in this/ or any equation.

    "What legal knowledge is needed in that position? I'm pretty sure most of the (many) commissioners this league has had have not been lawyers."

    I do not agree, and I don't believe in turning positives into negatives. History has shown us that legal knowledge has been a giant benefit to those who become leaders in business, or in the community.

    Do I think that all Lawyers can run the CFL, no. Do I think all good Lawyers can run the CFL, no. Do I think a Lawyer that is a good lawyer, a good communicator, a well liked guy who has played the game, can sell the game and understands the game.....do I think he'd make a potentially good commissioner? Yes I do. Do I think that his legal background would be a benefit. Yes, I do.

    With a good business plan, a good business network and a couple of outstanding VP's....I would wholeheartedly support either Mike Clemons or Jock Climie for this role.

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    Quote Originally Posted by paulwoods13 View Post
    What legal knowledge is needed in that position? I'm pretty sure most of the (many) commissioners this league has had have not been lawyers. The need to understand law is far outweighed by the need to understand how to run and grow a business, IMO.
    I don't know the answer to that, but some of the most successful North American sports commissioners have been lawyers, like them or not, including Bettman, Stern and Tagliabue.
    It's us vs the rest of the country

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    Quote Originally Posted by argos1873 View Post
    I would not be against Jock Climie. Someone else said Duane Forde is a better speaker than Jock. Disagree. Climie is a way better speaker than Forde. And he's a lawyer. I don't know how great he would be as a businessman or business partner with the 9 owners, I'll leave that up to them.

    We'll have to agree to disagree then; cause IMO, Forde - as a TV commentator anyways - is a far superior speaker to Climie - hands down/ no contest; more succinct, less prone to repeating himself, less cliched, better vocabulary, etc. - and I don't care if Jock is lawyer - that doesn't automatically make you a good communicator or speaker.

    But - those 2 guys would be way better choices for CFL Comish, IMO, than some supposedly successful "businessman" in a suit - a football league isn't just any "business" anyways; but maybe the CFL could bust El Chapo out of jail and install him as head honcho if making tons of buck$ is a great indicator of business acumen.

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jon Gonzo View Post
    Like I said, I don't completely disagree. There are good lawyers and bad lawyers. There are good businessmen and bad businessmen. There are good people and there are bad people. The only thing that I don't agree with is the slant that being a lawyer -- makes no difference in this/ or any equation.

    "What legal knowledge is needed in that position? I'm pretty sure most of the (many) commissioners this league has had have not been lawyers."

    I do not agree, and I don't believe in turning positives into negatives. History has shown us that legal knowledge has been a giant benefit to those who become leaders in business, or in the community.

    Do I think that all Lawyers can run the CFL, no. Do I think all good Lawyers can run the CFL, no. Do I think a Lawyer that is a good lawyer, a good communicator, a well liked guy who has played the game, can sell the game and understands the game.....do I think he'd make a potentially good commissioner? Yes I do. Do I think that his legal background would be a benefit. Yes, I do.

    With a good business plan, a good business network and a couple of outstanding VP's....I would wholeheartedly support either Mike Clemons or Jock Climie for this role.
    I have the utmost respect for the legal profession. A lawyer I worked with for years taught me an enormous amount about business and life, and a bit about the law. But as smart and knowledgeable as he is, he would be the first to admit he doesn't necessarily have all the tools necessary to run a complex enterprise. No question, having a sharp legal mind benefited him in many ways, and no doubt it benefits Jock Climie or any other sharp lawyer. But to run something as complex as a nine-team league where your bosses also compete directly against one another, and where much larger organizations are competing for the same ancillary revenue sources, requires a lot more than a sharp legal mind, IMO. Does Climie have all the other attributes and knowledge and skills needed to succeed? Does he know how to create a business plan that could be successful in growing the league? Maybe, maybe not. The fact he's a lawyer doesn't certainly doesn't guarantee that he does. Nor does it preclude the possibility.

    Your last comment is interesting as it seems to suggest that the league should be looking for up to three individuals (unless it already has those outstanding VPs). I doubt they are looking at this as a package deal.
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    A large professionally well run organization, when looking for a senior staff person, normally engages a consulting firm (head hunter) to help the organization select the most appropriate individual. Usually, it involves the consulting firm, first attempting to determine the ethos and culture of the organization. After that, they will identify what the successful candidate is expected to achieve (goals and objectives) on behalf of the organization. From that and in consultation with the Board, they will establish the criteria that a successful candidate must meet. Then the consulting firm will identify a potential short list before interviews can commence.

    The above is a very simplified description of the process that most successful organizations follow, when going through the hiring of a top executive. Sometimes when one has an organization like the CFL, with its 9 strong willed owners, it is absolutely necessary to establish all the ground rules, procedures and processes before entering into the exercise of choosing a new CEO.

    Hopefully, they get it right this time.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shatto View Post
    A large professionally well run organization, when looking for a senior staff person, normally engages a consulting firm (head hunter) to help the organization select the most appropriate individual. Usually, it involves the consulting firm, first attempting to determine the ethos and culture of the organization. After that, they will identify what the successful candidate is expected to achieve (goals and objectives) on behalf of the organization. From that and in consultation with the Board, they will establish the criteria that a successful candidate must meet. Then the consulting firm will identify a potential short list before interviews can commence.

    The above is a very simplified description of the process that most successful organizations follow, when going through the hiring of a top executive. Sometimes when one has an organization like the CFL, with its 9 strong willed owners, it is absolutely necessary to establish all the ground rules, procedures and processes before entering into the exercise of choosing a new CEO.

    Hopefully, they get it right this time.

    It'a just this kind of thing, that this league usually f's up. Good people under their nose, in a unique league that needs people that understand 'unique.'

    Man, did they ever luck out with Cohon. But....

    we'll probably get some puppet egg head.

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    Arash Madani gives a devastating review of Porridge's time as CFL Commissioner below.

    http://www.sportsnet.ca/football/cfl...-starting-yet/

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    Quote Originally Posted by jerrym View Post
    Arash Madani gives a devastating review of Porridge's time as CFL Commissioner below.

    http://www.sportsnet.ca/football/cfl...-starting-yet/
    Other than that Orridge did a great job!!👍
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    Madani is an ass clown.
    It's us vs the rest of the country

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jon Gonzo View Post
    It'a just this kind of thing, that this league usually f's up. Good people under their nose, in a unique league that needs people that understand 'unique.'

    Man, did they ever luck out with Cohon. But....

    we'll probably get some puppet egg head.
    So true. I had nothing against Orridge personally, but was quite shocked when he was chosen by the Good Old Boys. I accepted the line that he was some kind of new whiz person that was needed for the League going forward. My gut told me different after listening to him however. But one doesn't want to be critical to get in trouble with the political correctness crowd so I don't think I said too much against his policies, even though to me it didn't look like a good fit. That term "wasn't a good fit" sure covered a lot of territory.
    Hopefully the Good Old Boys will finally hire somebody who can herd cats and make this League great again. I don't know if that person exists though.

  17. #57
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    Stole this from somewhere but here are some good things JO had done.

    1) CFL week
    2) revamped the combines
    3) Created a drug policy with teeth
    4) Established a relationship with EA Games
    5) Started a joint training program with NFL for the officials
    6) Created policy to prevent pillaging of management personnel
    7) Brokered the sale of the Toronto Argonaut
    8) Helped secure the rights to BMO field
    9) Finally stood up to teams that were cheating
    10) Rebranded the league for the younger more hip crowd
    11) created a uniform website template for all teams
    12) brought the league into the 21st century with social media
    13) Create the duo of Sanchez and Cybulski… Live and the Waggle.
    14) Partnership with Draft Kings.

  18. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by AngeloV View Post
    Madani is an ass clown.
    He does love to chime in with the negative crap but unfortunately the examples he has cited are factually correct.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Argo57 View Post
    He does love to chime in with the negative crap but unfortunately the examples he has cited are factually correct.
    I'm no fan of Madani and his typically negative approach to the Argos, but I agree that his article was factually correct. That's why I posted his article.

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    After the rough start he had when introduced as the new commish, I thought Orridge was doing much better of late.
    In fact, I loved how he came down to talk to the crowd while attending games for the Argos.
    Last summer I spoke to him for several minutes, he was very nice, attentive and concerned about the view held by the paying fans.
    So I mentioned to him how the TV contract was a bad financial signing and he could not agree more.
    In fact, he mentioned during the next renewal he was going to create a bidding war and what was sadly lacking at the last one.
    He agreed with me how the CFL property was grossly undervalued.
    Suggested it could be $100M per year and that he expected interest from other parties as well as TSN, therefore creating a bidding war.
    Sadly he won't be able to see this come to fruition.

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