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  1. #1
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    2018 Season Tickets

    Good morning,

    I have spent some time reviewing what everyone has written and I can tell you I truly appreciate it. I hope everyone on this forum knows I am available at any time via email (mhook@argonauts.ca) or phone (416 341 2726). We are only as strong as our fans and those in this forum are some of the best in the league. That said I can appreciate everyone having concern or not being happy with what we rolled out yesterday. I can assure you that all decisions were reviewed and made with the best interest of growing this fan base, I certainly hope all of you will be a part of it. I also hope you have seen the progress we have made this year on the field, and off the field. We have make great efforts to ensure you the season ticket holder was looked after.

    I think it is fair to want a price decrease but we have made a decision to keep our prices flat for the 3rd straight season. This is unlike any other team in the city of Toronto. The Argos prices are still very competitive to the league average if you consider that 75% of our season ticket holders fall between a price point of $699-$199 seats. Like everyone on this board I want to grow this fan base and I am committed to that but it doesn’t happen over night. It also doesn’t happen by assuming that giving away our tickets will help. The flex tickets were a great benefit but at the end of the day a strategy to comp tickets. Plain and simple it wasn't taken advantage of considering only 48% to date were used and many of those donated to charity plus we have found many of these tickets on stubhub. It has been my goal to reduce the amount of comp tickets given out and I can tell you that year over year we reduced our comp tickets by 65%. Our paid attendance has increased and we continue to see more new fans coming out. The flex ticket if used properly did provide some of this but it wasn’t the best way to grow our base. I am happy to discuss with any of you the opportunity to bring new fans out. This also allows us to more strategically offer you the season ticket holder family and friends opportunities.

    We remain committed to providing a competitive team, an awesome game experience and service second to none. I can assure you we are working every day to get to this right and build on the progress we made in 2017.

    I know many fans believe we offered discounted tickets on a regular basis and this is somewhat accurate however in all cases except this weekend (Maxim) these discounted tickets were only available in the group section (no season tickets available). I think it is important for us to continue to offer special promotion to attract new fans and also ensure they pay. I understand that at times is seems better to buy tickets on a game to game basis but I want all of you to know that the benefit of being a season ticket holder certainly out weighs buying game to game, better seating, lower prices on a per game basis, the inclusion in our events, playoff tickets at a discounted rate and guaranteed giveaways.

    Finally I know I have had discussions with many of you about a rescale of the stadium. Although this didn’t take place in 2018 it is something that we are continuing to work on and review. It isn’t as simple as eliminating sections since that can create price increase in some areas and we certainly were not going to come out with any lifts. I understand that we need to simplify our map but for 2018 it is easier and makes more business sense to leave things as is.

    I want to talk with you. Please email me directly or call me and I can discuss your situation and how we continue to win you back again in 2018. I do think I can say with confidence that we made great strides in 2017. We need you and I can assure each and every one of you we are here for you!!!! That said if any of you feel more comfortable speaking in person I will be available on Saturday at tailgate.

    Thank you

    Michael Hook
    Toronto Argonauts

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    Good Morning Michael ---

    I would like to ask about the merchandise discount which is only available online at 10%. I have yet to find this as a satisfying perk as unless one spends an exorbitant amount online, the 10% does not defray the shipping charges which essentially makes all of my purchases cheaper in the stadium with no discount applied, than purchasing online with one applied, and if the goal is to get people in the stadium shouldn't it be cheaper for me to buy my merch there? or at least be cheaper than any non-STH who buys stuff in the stadium?

    Why was the online discount not raised to a higher % this year (or offer free shipping in Ontario?) if issues with in stadium discounting of concessions either with a STH card (like TFC), or with a discount coupon distributed to STH with their ST, still couldn't be worked out (as we have been told since the move to BMO)?

    Thanks for your continued engagement with the ST base....

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    Thanks for your engagement with the fanbase. That is important and you specifically do a good job of that.

    I agree with you that onfield is much improved this year. Offield has taken a step back however. Smaller tailgate, no concert area by hotel x, no compelling halftime shows or pre or post game events other than Flutie day and fireworks. Other teams provide better STH amenities and perks and their game days are more entertaining. Your management team should be aware of what the others are doing.

    Having said that the Argos need to be better than everyone else in spaids. Because you have an apathetic market towards your team.

    Maintaining a ticket structure that has failed for two seasons is just one example of the organization doing what is easy versus what is hard.

    The big town hall in the spring was a great event because it
    introduced us to players and team management that gave us hope for a brighter future on the field. Unfortunately the organization lost the opportunity to lay out a business strategy to provide hope for us being in a full stadium in the future.

    Most of this has little to do with your direct responsiblilities. Others in management should be as forthcoming as you have been.

    On a sidenote since your previous employer has unfortunately fallen on poor onfield performance and looks to raise their ticket prices while maintaining the status quo on the field do any of their corporate partners show any interest in a much better product in the Argos?
    GO ARGOS!!!

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    I have no problem with anything that Michael says here. I love the fact that he and Jamie Dykstra come on here from time to time to explain things. If people were taking their flex tickets and selling them on stubhub, shame on all of them and I can't fault the Argos for looking at different options this year as a result of that.
    It's us vs the rest of the country

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    Yeah, reselling "free" tickets is completely offside. I hope there wasn't much of that.

    I think the issue that is most troubling to me is the notion that our ticket prices are in line with the rest of the league. As I've written earlier, we are not selling tickets in any of those other markets. Ideally the price here would be attractive in this particular market. However, I am now thinking there may be pressure from the league and/or other teams not to lower prices because it could cause problems in other markets. Hamilton, in particular, seems to be selling a lot fewer tickets than it was in the first few years of THF. It's also close enough that some fans of the league (as opposed to the Ticats) might opt for cheaper tickets at BMO if they were available. So far that's the only rationale I've come up with to explain holding the line on prices. Even a modest price cut of, say, 5% would have played better than staying level.

    I do appreciate the fact that Michael comes on here to talk to us as a group, and answers individual emails as well. That's a very customer-focused approach.
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    I'm also disappointed to hear that some of the flex tickets were being sold, not what they were meant for, but tbh I'm not surprised that it occurred. Personally for me the flex tickets are nowhere near a deal breaker, and I still don't understand why some are in such up in arms about it.

    As for the price points, I still think the ticket map needs to be simplified, and the ticket prices themselves I think are fine, but if the price map were to be adjusted IMO certain areas need to be made more affordable. As an example, $499 to sit in the front rows of 226, 227, 221 and 220 does seem a bit high., however no other team has a $199 ticket option (Ottawa had a $197 in year one IIRC), so a bit disappointed to hear some fans saying that ticket are too expensive for them.

    As for the East end, in a way I do think tickets need to be dropped down as an incentive to get more people to sit there, but no other team in football or even soccer in North America does that, so it does seem a bit weird that only in Toronto does that need to be done (even TFC has trouble selling the East side at times). I do like the fact that the upper level on the East side is for group sales, and was used for all the different promotions, we need to find ways to get bums in seats in that area, so I was happy to see on at least two occasions it was occurring.

    As far as perks I'm pretty sure that we're in line with most others teams now, so not sure why the complaints are still coming in about it. However, I will agree that a season ticket holder discount on merch should be available in stadium, and free shipping should be included on purchases over a certain amount (like Amazon does) for online purchases.

    I'd also like to thank Mr. Hook and Dykstra for coming on here from time to time and engage with us, along with keeping us in the know etc.

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    As it relates to price is can be debated but lowering prices isn't always the answer or does it guarantee an increase in attendance. Based on my experience lowering our prices can actually create bigger challenges when it does finally come time to raise prices. TFC did this a few years back and were met with resistance when it came to raising the prices to a level that matched the demand. We feel keeping our prices flat for a 3rd season is important and a step to show our commitment. We also feel that adding value throughout the season or experiential opportunities can also help.

    It should be noted that just because attendance isn't to the level we want it to be that it is due entirely on price. Compelling ticket offers help drive sales but it is often due to greater exposure during these ticket campaigns. We must certainly continue to put our brand out their and educate people when we play and where to buy tickets. We also must continue to build programs that drive kids to our games (minor football, schools, charities etc.)

    I understand the frustration and passion but I can assure you we want the same thing as all of you. A full stadium!

    I am always open to feedback that will help us evaluate what we are doing and ensure it is the right course of action.

    Thank you

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    Appreciate you reaching out to us. It's great to hear from the organization and knowing reasons why decisions are or are not made.

    Yes understand the removal of giving out free tickets especially if they're not being used as they were designed. Good to hear paid attendance is up. I take that as in number of paid tickets as opposed to ticket revenue.

    For next season especially on weekend games, would the team consider child pricing (12 and under). Similar to what BC did for part of this year? On the surface it seemed to have some level of sucess, expose them young and they're not given away either.

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    We are certainly exploring kids priced tickets. We are however working through some of the logistics to ensure they are used by kids. I think a kids priced ticket is important but need to make sure we protect ourselves from any risks of these tickets getting in the wrong hands or being taken advantage of.

    Thank you

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    Your attention to the concerns and opinions expressed by STH's is much appreciated. As a STH of over 50 years and now having got both my kids and grandkids to be enthusiastic Argo supporters, I will state again, when any organization gives benefits one year but removes them the next year, it creates a sense of disappointment for the client. No matter how management rationalizes or attempts to justify the move, removal of a benefit from the client will for those who enjoyed the benefit, almost always lead to the feeling of a slight betrayal.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AngeloV View Post
    I have no problem with anything that Michael says here. I love the fact that he and Jamie Dykstra come on here from time to time to explain things. If people were taking their flex tickets and selling them on stubhub, shame on all of them and I can't fault the Argos for looking at different options this year as a result of that.
    You would hope that wasn't happening but unfortunately you never know, I think many of these issues could be avoided by simple communication which Michael and Jamie have done a nice job with (too bad Argo upper management don't follow the same credo).
    Toronto Argonauts
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    I 100% agree that you get to a point and ticket price and sales are not necessarily correlated. I have no issue with the ticket prices or seating chart. My opinion there is a price option at many price points for all types of fans. I agree that the in stadium STH discount needs to be addressed and the instant reply's during the game need to be better. Otherwise I have enjoyed the STH experience overall. Clearly leadership is engaged and communicative with there fan base.
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    Two of my family members have seasons tickets and due to the extra bonus tickets I have attended most of the games this year for free - which was great!

    However, I think with the number of games with $20 promotions and tickets available on Stubhub, it would not be necessary for me to get season seats in the future.

    The security at BMO is so lax that one could buy a discounted ticket on Stubhub and sit in just about any section of your choice. And this also applied to TFC games for much of the last decade when ticket demand was not as high as it is at the minute.

    I think the pricing breakdown needs to be simplified where you have some expensive options for seats at the 30-50 yard line and basically the rest of the stadium is a flat affordable rate.

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    Mike, thanks for coming on and providing this information. I'll talk more to you about this at the tailgate on Saturday. I understand that that 75% of tickets are available for $699 and below. Looking at the website, Argo tickets are priced in alignment with TFC tickets. TFC tickets are priced for 19 TFC games, in the Toronto market. I understand that TFC has an annual salary burden of $30 million USD (mostly to 3 players) offset by annual TV revenues of $5 millionUSD million per team.

    Lets discuss Premium tickets priced from $899 - $1,999. This segment of tickets are priced eerily similar to the 2016 Grey Cup ticket pricing and that didn't end well. Didn't management learn from that fiasco? Certainly, there's no evidence from attendance after the 1st game of the 2016 season to support this pricing structure. Only time and ticket sales will tell.

    Premium seat Value added?

    In this segment, I note that for TFC "Club Seats" at BMO Field, they include "all-inclusive "Chef's Table" food stations and offer post-match autograph sessions featuring select TFC first team players. The Argos price the Club Seats in a similar manner but don't offer anything over and above the game day experience. One can spend an additional $50 for food sitting under a heat lamp.

    Tell me, why on earth would someone pay a $500 premium per seat over the same seats in the same row, in Section 122 - just five seats over? The old adage, "in the absence of value, price matters."

    On more than occasion I have suggested to management that Club Seats across the CFL teams include lounge all-inclusive food, players and alumni. In other leagues it's a given. So far, it's fallen on deaf ears.

    Under this same pricing structure, I note that many of your hardcore, long standing fans are revisiting STs. At minimum, they'll move down the price structure. Alternatively, like myself, they'll seriously consider either buying ST at a lower price structure, or in 2018 buy game day tickets AND move down the pricing structure.

    I hear plenty of comments from long standing, diehard fans saying they will renew the ST to support the Argos inspite of their own best interests. That's likely a minority. I, for one, am afraid that the result will be a continuing diminishing STs base. I foresee a much smaller ST base next year who will n turn may be buying lower priced tickets too.
    “it's not the strongest who survive nor the most intelligent but the ones most adaptable to change.’ Charles Darwin

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    My 5 cents (since we have to round to the nearest 5 cent level now in Canada)...

    I do not think that ticket prices are too high necessarily.
    If they are indeed in line with other CFL teams, which appears to be the case, then I am fine with that.
    This is, after all, PROFESSIONAL sport. It costs money to run the operation and pay the players.
    I look at other live sport options in the city and believe that the Argonauts are competitively priced - and no, I don't compare to the Maple Leafs, Raptors, and Blue Jays, but to the Toronto Rock and Mississauga Steelheads whose games I actually attend and therefore pay for tickets.

    STH benefits.
    My one complaint here, as many others have mentioned, is the effective lack of discount on merchandise sales.
    If it is indeed not possible to implement the discount at the stadium, then online purchases should have the shipping fee waived. As it stands now, there really is no discount unless one spends enough online to cover the shipping.
    As an aside, I find that the supply of merchandise since Adidas assumed merchandise responsibilities to be uninspired and outright BORING. I have purchased one foam hat in the past two years.

    FWIW, I renewed my season seat yesterday. I had to call the ticket office to get my remaining flex tickets for the Winnipeg game (no, I'm NOT selling them - I'm taking friends). I asked about availability of seats in a different section as I am not happy with my current seat. I found a seat that worked for me in the next section over AT A HIGHER PRICE POINT. I took it. Moved from a $499 seat to a $699 seat. For 9 regular season games plus one playoff game (plus exhibition game, but I don't include that in my calculation) that equals $69.90 per game - all in. To me, that is value for live professional sports in Toronto. And make no mistake, seeing the games live versus television is the way to go imo.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DoubleBlue_Red View Post
    Two of my family members have seasons tickets and due to the extra bonus tickets I have attended most of the games this year for free - which was great!

    However, I think with the number of games with $20 promotions and tickets available on Stubhub, it would not be necessary for me to get season seats in the future.

    The security at BMO is so lax that one could buy a discounted ticket on Stubhub and sit in just about any section of your choice. And this also applied to TFC games for much of the last decade when ticket demand was not as high as it is at the minute.

    I think the pricing breakdown needs to be simplified where you have some expensive options for seats at the 30-50 yard line and basically the rest of the stadium is a flat affordable rate.
    I saw that happen last game where a couple had to move three times because they were in somebody else's seat. But that used to happen at the Dome as well. I did something different this year. Bought a 3 flex pack and then single tickets to sit in different areas on both sides (to see if I liked my neighbours) lol Trouble was in some seats they were quite distant. I mean physically. About the only areas I haven't sat is the end zone and behind the visitors bench and low on the East side. I might try that on a sunny cool day for a playoff game. Good sight lines any where though IMO. I would have thought the tickets would have been lower at first to attract a bigger crowd and than slight increases yearly once people started liking what they saw and felt being at the live games. It is obvious many of the STH's who sat in level one behind the Argo bench at the Dome did not renew over to BMO. Once some people quit coming, if they feel they were being gouged, it might be difficult to get them back.

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    I renewed this morning but moved from Gold A to Silver B seats without a huge difference in vantage point.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Argo57 View Post
    I renewed this morning but moved from Gold A to Silver B seats without a huge difference in vantage point.
    Well done. That is the best way to show how you feel. If more people do that, it would likely be the best signal to be sent about price points. Much better than complaining on here.
    It's us vs the rest of the country

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    Well we’ve taken some time to reflect on and discuss the new 2018 season ticket package and the word that sums it up for us is Disappointing.

    We’re disappointed that we’re losing the Flex Tickets. We will have used all of them by the end of the regular season and it was this season’s best perk to being a season ticket holder in our opinion.

    We’re disappointed that the prices haven’t been reduced as discussed at the Open Mic night.

    We’re disappointed that the number of price points haven’t been reduced as discussed at the Open Mic Night.

    We’re disappointed that there’s still no in stadium concession discounts for season ticket holders as discussed at the Open Mic Night. (Many other CFL Teams offer this benefit to season ticket holders)

    We’re disappointed that there’s still no merchandise discounts in stadium (or at the Tailgate as discussed at the Open Mic Night) for season ticket holders like TFC season ticket holders have @ BMO Field.

    We’re disappointed that we won’t qualify for the new referral program as we’re most likely reducing the number of season tickets that we have. We’ve been debating this one and we’re hoping that there would be a price reduction that would allow us to maintain the same number of tickets but with our kids losing interest in the CFL it doesn’t make sense to continue with the same number of season tickets.

    So overall the 2018 season ticket package is a step back from the 2017 season ticket package for us.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Neely2005 View Post
    Well we’ve taken some time to reflect on and discuss the new 2018 season ticket package and the word that sums it up for us is Disappointing.

    We’re disappointed that we’re losing the Flex Tickets. We will have used all of them by the end of the regular season and it was this season’s best perk to being a season ticket holder in our opinion.

    We’re disappointed that the prices haven’t been reduced as discussed at the Open Mic night.

    We’re disappointed that the number of price points haven’t been reduced as discussed at the Open Mic Night.

    We’re disappointed that there’s still no in stadium concession discounts for season ticket holders as discussed at the Open Mic Night. (Many other CFL Teams offer this benefit to season ticket holders)

    We’re disappointed that there’s still no merchandise discounts in stadium (or at the Tailgate as discussed at the Open Mic Night) for season ticket holders like TFC season ticket holders have @ BMO Field.

    We’re disappointed that we won’t qualify for the new referral program as we’re most likely reducing the number of season tickets that we have. We’ve been debating this one and we’re hoping that there would be a price reduction that would allow us to maintain the same number of tickets but with our kids losing interest in the CFL it doesn’t make sense to continue with the same number of season tickets.

    So overall the 2018 season ticket package is a step back from the 2017 season ticket package for us.
    From my perspective, and I appreciate others have differing opinions on this, I have to agree with what you have said. In my situation, the current offering is a step back. HOWEVER, I had a long conversation with Michael Hook and he was very receptive to my concerns, and has indicated that he will do his best to address individual STH's concerns as best he can. On that basis, and given how much I enjoy the CFL game and being a loyal Argos fan, I have renewed my tickets for next year.

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