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  1. #21
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    Going with Ray is a mistake in my mind. I think our offense could be a disaster. Even if Ray stays healthy, he's over-the-hill, and I don't like our backups or o-line. Ownership missed a chance for a massive reboot last November.

    I hope I'm dead wrong, but this is the least optimistic I've been about a season since I started following the league.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rich View Post
    Nobody talks about Josh Mitchell, but i thought he was a great find who could turn into a real good player. Just a little guy but he plays bigger, hits hard and he's smart with great football instincts.
    The beauty of this season is that almost everyone is coming in with a clean slate. It's easy to look at past performance and say this guy stinks, but different cultures often bring out a difference in performance. I honestly have no idea where the Argos will finish this year. In this league especially, nobody can. But I am really excited to see this team form through TC and into the season.
    F*&# ROGERS!!!

  3. #23
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    I just don't see how Ricky Ray can be considered "over the hill" even if he stays healthy. Last season he completed 74.5% of his passes, second-highest percentage of his career. His TD/INT ratio (2.5/1) was fourth-best of his career and just slightly behind his second-best of 2.7/1 -(2013 was an outlier at 10.5/1). His average gain per pass (8.0) was just 10th-highest out of the 13 seasons in which he played at least nine games, but basically where he has been throughout his career (8.0 last season, 8.3 career).

    In his five years with the Argos, he has had a higher completion percentage (71.2 vs. 66.8), higher TD/INT ratio (2.5 vs. 1.6) and slightly lower avg gain (8.2 vs. 8.4) than in his first nine seasons. The only thing he is demonstrably worse at is staying off the injury list. When he's been healthy his play has been at least equal to, and arguably better than, what it was for the first nine years of his career.
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  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by KCargosfan View Post
    Going with Ray is a mistake in my mind. I think our offense could be a disaster. Even if Ray stays healthy, he's over-the-hill, and I don't like our backups or o-line. Ownership missed a chance for a massive reboot last November.

    I hope I'm dead wrong, but this is the least optimistic I've been about a season since I started following the league.
    How did Burris (who is older than Ray) do last season?

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    Throwing a bunch of check downs helps inflate Ray's completion percentage numbers. Likewise for any other QB for that matter.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SnowRogue View Post
    Throwing a bunch of check downs helps inflate Ray's completion percentage numbers. Likewise for any other QB for that matter.
    Does it inflate his TD/INT ratio? Does it keep his avg gain per pass where it was his entire career?
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    I love Ricky Ray and expect him to be our starter and expect him to put up good stats but other than Kevin Glenn in Saskatchewan is he at present better than any of the other starting QBS? An honest question. What it also says is there is a lot of talent once again at the QB position in the CFL. I don't believe there will be any doormats in the league this year. The Argos should be in every game this year on coaching and preparation alone.
    MALACHI CRUNCH ROGERS!!!

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    I think 8 wins minimum. WR is a crap shoot with a lot of inexperience minus Green.

    As for QB, I'm not betting on Ray being the starter as the season goes on.
    I understand what Trestman can do for our QB's. I just don't think Ray has the tools anymore. (hope I'm wrong)
    I'm no expert, but I think Trestman had more to work with in Calvillo. Both have limited mobility. But Calvillo had a quick release, and could gun the ball in when needed.
    Ray's release seems slow compared to other QB's in the league. And he's never been known to have a cannon of an arm.
    I think as the season goes Trestman will see more potential in one of our other QB's to lead the offense.


    As for the team, I expect more discipline and intensity. Too many flat starts last year as the players had turned on SM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Antwon View Post
    I think 8 wins minimum. WR is a crap shoot with a lot of inexperience minus Green.

    As for QB, I'm not betting on Ray being the starter as the season goes on.
    I understand what Trestman can do for our QB's. I just don't think Ray has the tools anymore. (hope I'm wrong)
    I'm no expert, but I think Trestman had more to work with in Calvillo. Both have limited mobility. But Calvillo had a quick release, and could gun the ball in when needed.
    Ray's release seems slow compared to other QB's in the league. And he's never been known to have a cannon of an arm.
    I think as the season goes Trestman will see more potential in one of our other QB's to lead the offense.


    As for the team, I expect more discipline and intensity. Too many flat starts last year as the players had turned on SM.
    While I agree that there is a good chance Ray will not remain the starter as the season wears on, IMO it will be due to injury as has happened often in the past. He may not have the strongest arm but few can match the touch he puts on the ball. While I am not down on Willy to the same extent as some here, I don't think he is anywhere near even an aging Ray. Given Trestman's record in Montreal, I think he ride the veteran horse as long as it shows it's leading the team towards a Ray of sunshine (sorry for the mixed metaphors).

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by jerrym View Post
    While I agree that there is a good chance Ray will not remain the starter as the season wears on, IMO it will be due to injury as has happened often in the past. He may not have the strongest arm but few can match the touch he puts on the ball. While I am not down on Willy to the same extent as some here, I don't think he is anywhere near even an aging Ray. Given Trestman's record in Montreal, I think he ride the veteran horse as long as it shows it's leading the team towards a Ray of sunshine (sorry for the mixed metaphors).
    I listened to the TSN interview. I liked what Trestman said. Declaring Ray the starter, but also being honest as it will also be based on performance.
    And Ray being agreeable to it as well. I have complete faith in Trestman. If he feels Ray gives us the best chance at winning then he'll play.
    If one of the others comes around and gives us a better change, then they'll play.

  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neely2005 View Post
    How did Burris (who is older than Ray) do last season?
    Are you comparing the athletic ability of Burris and Ray? Or the ability to stay healthy?

  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by paulwoods13 View Post
    I just don't see how Ricky Ray can be considered "over the hill" even if he stays healthy. Last season he completed 74.5% of his passes, second-highest percentage of his career. His TD/INT ratio (2.5/1) was fourth-best of his career and just slightly behind his second-best of 2.7/1 -(2013 was an outlier at 10.5/1). His average gain per pass (8.0) was just 10th-highest out of the 13 seasons in which he played at least nine games, but basically where he has been throughout his career (8.0 last season, 8.3 career).

    In his five years with the Argos, he has had a higher completion percentage (71.2 vs. 66.8), higher TD/INT ratio (2.5 vs. 1.6) and slightly lower avg gain (8.2 vs. 8.4) than in his first nine seasons. The only thing he is demonstrably worse at is staying off the injury list. When he's been healthy his play has been at least equal to, and arguably better than, what it was for the first nine years of his career.
    Kind of an important thing.

    From what we've seen, what leads you or anyone to believe Ray can stay healthy and on the field? He isn't half the athlete Burris is/was, and imo he's a worse athlete than Calvillo.

    Ray will turn 38 during the season. He's started 11 games the past 2 seasons. His arm strength isn't what it was 4 years ago. All of those factors can make him over the hill.

  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by KCargosfan View Post
    Kind of an important thing.

    From what we've seen, what leads you or anyone to believe Ray can stay healthy and on the field? He isn't half the athlete Burris is/was, and imo he's a worse athlete than Calvillo.

    Ray will turn 38 during the season. He's started 11 games the past 2 seasons. His arm strength isn't what it was 4 years ago. All of those factors can make him over the hill.
    I gather you are basing the over-the-hill contention entirely on his injury history, and you don't wish to address any of the other points I raised about his performance when healthy?

    His injuries have been to different areas, and some of them have been fluky -- anyone (even a great athlete) could have been hurt in the same position. Arm strength was never his calling card. I disagree he's a worse athlete than Calvillo.
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  14. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by KCargosfan View Post
    Kind of an important thing.

    From what we've seen, what leads you or anyone to believe Ray can stay healthy and on the field? He isn't half the athlete Burris is/was, and imo he's a worse athlete than Calvillo.

    Ray will turn 38 during the season. He's started 11 games the past 2 seasons. His arm strength isn't what it was 4 years ago. All of those factors can make him over the hill.
    I agree there are was red flags going forward with Ricky. But, IMO he is still the best QB available for the Argos right now. The thing is to keep the big hits from happening. The late hit from Vaughan Martin was more of a fluke injury IMO and the hit he took in the Hamilton game shouldn't have happened because a DE came unblocked. I have confidence in Trestman's offence to design plays for quick release plays that made Cavillo so successful. Would love to see a big back like Messam back there to ride shotgun for Ricky and pick up the blitz's that defenses will use, but that never seems to happen in Toronto. Only (unsuccessful) lol teams like Calgary would think of doing such a thing.

  15. #35
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    It is truthful that many of Ray's injuries were what might be termed "fluky," however I don't think the OL has improved dramatically since last season and thus the potential for more of these "fluky" injuries remains high.
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    Quote Originally Posted by doubleblue View Post
    IMO and the hit he took in the Hamilton game shouldn't have happened because a DE came unblocked.
    IMO the hit in Hamilton should never have happened because on the previous play Tom Valessi and his crew ruled an obvious target area PI in the endzone as an illegal contact. That placed the ball on the 4 yard line rather than the 1. Had the correct call been made, Fajardo would have been in for the goal line situation, and Ray would never have been hit.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Argofans.com View Post
    It is truthful that many of Ray's injuries were what might be termed "fluky," however I don't think the OL has improved dramatically since last season and thus the potential for more of these "fluky" injuries remains high.
    Left knee sprain in 2012, injured left knee yet again in 2013 against Winnipeg, then partial torn muscle in his throwing shoulder against Calgary, tore his right labrum (throwing shoulder) in 2014, which he played through until he was concussed against Montreal in the penultimate regular season game, 2015 was recovering from his off season shoulder surgery and never looked healthy enough to be out there. And in 2016, Sprained left knee yet again, then the rib and lung injury. Aside from the concussion and rib/lung injuries, there seems to be a recurring theme here.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AngeloV View Post
    IMO the hit in Hamilton should never have happened because on the previous play Tom Valessi and his crew ruled an obvious target area PI in the endzone as an illegal contact. That placed the ball on the 4 yard line rather than the 1. Had the correct call been made, Fajardo would have been in for the goal line situation, and Ray would never have been hit.
    That call still irritates me. Another turning point of the Argo season.

  19. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by gilthethrill View Post
    That call still irritates me. Another turning point of the Argo season.
    Valessi is quite pitiful to watch at the best of times.
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    Quote Originally Posted by SnowRogue View Post
    ... there seems to be a recurring theme here.
    Truer words were seldom spoke.
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