Toronto Argonauts Rookie Camp + Training Camp thread

[Will]

At practice today --noted that McFadden sat out-wonder if he is injured again? Hill (WR) and Wallace (OL) both also appear to have injuries. Campbell took all 1st string reps at LT and Gabriel took all 1st string reps at CB

Did you see Alan-Michael Cash at all? I was there--didn't see him.

[Wobbler]

I wonder if the competition was tougher than he expected?

I think he was worried that Wilder would eat him.

[Rich]

I am loving what I hear about James Wilder. He could be the pickup of the year. A monster back at 6'3"-232, highly motivated at age 25 and wanting another shot at the NFL. Trestman called him "an exciting prospect". Dan Ralph did a nice piece on him this week. Wilder said he was looking forward to challenging some of the smaller LBs in the CFL, and who wouldn't be looking forward to seeing that? He also excels on special teams, the guy has lived and breathed football his whole life because of his dad.

Wilder and Whitaker could be the best 1-2 backfield punch since Sellers and Roberts. Ya never know. Let's see how well he blocks first.

[Wobbler]

Might be tough to dress two INT RBs, but if Wilder is a good ST contributor that would help...

[OV Argo]

I am loving what I hear about James Wilder. He could be the pickup of the year. A monster back at 6'3"-232, highly motivated at age 25 and wanting another shot at the NFL. Trestman called him "an exciting prospect". Dan Ralph did a nice piece on him this week. Wilder said he was looking forward to challenging some of the smaller LBs in the CFL, and who wouldn't be looking forward to seeing that? He also excels on special teams, the guy has lived and breathed football his whole life because of his dad.

Wilder and Whitaker could be the best 1-2 backfield punch since Sellers and Roberts. Ya never know. Let's see how well he blocks first.

Sound interesting - both Wilder the prospect and the thought of a 1-2 RB punch with a big back involved; however - you will not see that out of a Trestman offence - lots of varied run game and a big back getting the 20+ carries a game those types need to roll and grind on defences. It will be the same old look 5 pack offence, with a single RB most of the time; mostly pass play calls and the one simple basic running play that all same old CFL offences use now.

[Wobbler]

Stephen Hill was released today. Too bad - I know that a few of us were intrigued by his size and NFL experience.

However, we also signed INT OT William Campbell.

[paulwoods13]

After watching the workout at fan day and scrutinizing the roster, I think these are the main questions to be answered in the preseason games:

1. Who will play MLB? Unless Bear Woods is signed, we look thin there with McFadden hurt again.

2. Who will backup at the two OLB positions, assuming Ball and Murray start?

3. Are any of the rookie DBs capable of beating out a veteran, or at least dressing as backup? Do we have an adequate backup (or replacement) for Owusu-Ansah at CB?

4. Can J Campbell win the LT spot? He seems to have the inside track at this point but there are still five or six INT o-linemen and I assume we will keep at least two around. If we can start five NAT o-linemen, plus one SB/FB, one DT and one CB/S, we will have decent roster flex. I'd prefer to start nine but we need at least eight IMO.

5. Which of Matthews, Prukop or Bethel-Thompson will be the PR/IR QB?

6. How many NATs can/will we keep? There are 30 with a shot IMO -- four FB/SBs (Coombs, Jones, Cross, Tuck), four WR/SBs (Noel, Graves, Williams, Ralph), nine o-linemen (Campbell, VZ, Holmes, Deane, McEwen, Sackey, Woods, Watman, Kolankowski), three DTs (Laing, Waud, Finley), two DEs (Walker, Foster), three LBs (Herdman, Onyeka, Newton), three DBs (Gabriel, Black, Woodson) and two STers (Hajrillahu, Reinhart). I can see us keeping 26-28 so two to four will likely be cut. I would guess Kolankowski, Newton, Ralph and Tuck are most on the bubble.

[Argo57]

Argos need a serious upgrade at MLB, McFadden simply can't be counted on to stay healthy.

[gilthethrill]

Argos need a serious upgrade at MLB, McFadden simply can't be counted on to stay healthy.

Was he trying to tackle CJ Gable again?

[Argo57]

was he trying to tackle cj gable again?

👍lol

[1971GreyCup]

Big highlight of Fan Day for us was meeting AngeloV! We rarely agree, right! But I love your passion. Now all we need to do is find another 11,000 of each of our personal profiles and the Argos are totally out-of-the-woods!

[gilthethrill]

Big highlight of Fan Day for us was meeting AngeloV! We rarely agree, right! But I love your passion. Now all we need to do is find another 11,000 of each of our personal profiles and the Argos are totally out-of-the-woods!

Angelo V is a gentle giant.

[OV Argo]

I'll be stunned if one of the import O-linemen in camp does not win a starting OT job and they instead go with 2 NI OT starters (Van Zeyl & Campbell has the inside track for the other spot?).

Coombs will maybe be the Swiss army knife type role - can back-up at tailback, slotback or kick returner - doubt he does any job close to full-time though.

IF there is to be one NI receiver in the 5 pack - will it be Jones as one of the slots, or Noel at wide-side WR ?

Nakas Onyeka was a tough, nose for the ball type OLB in CIS ball with Laurier; but he is probably not near fast enough to play the cover SAM OLB spot and is also maybe under-sized for the WILL OLB job. Justin Herdman played OLB in US college ball, but he has the size to play MLB in the CFL = he might be considered a back-up to the import starter there? Chamblin might have no use for either of those draft picks on D though, Both those guys need to step-up as special teams forces.

The other DE spot aside from Lemon - will be interesting to see who emerges there. Ex-NFLer Butler has the resume and hope he can be a pass rush force; love to see Evans get a real crack at some D playing time, and maybe Walker has progressed at DE too ? - won't get to play if Chamblin has no use for them on defence though. A lot of CFL teams now use a lot of rotation on the D-line for different looks and to keep guys fresh; Waud might get some playing time to spell Laing, but can they carry an extra import DT and DE ?


Bear Woods seems like an obvious answer to the MLB job? - maybe it comes down to just buck$ though and another CFL team might be willing to pay more? - the Bummers have big need at MLB too.


And as far as this it would be nice to have 8 or 9 NI starters thinking - the only way that happens is IF they go with 5 starting NI O-Linemen, PLUS one NI receiver in the 5 pack, for 6 NI starters on offence = very doubtful IMO; there is almost no way in hell there will be more than 2 NI starters on defence (a DT and a safety)

[jerrym]

IF there is to be one NI receiver in the 5 pack - will it be Jones as one of the slots, or Noel at wide-side WR ?

My bet would be Jones, as I think Noel needs more development, although he could turn into a good receiver in time.

[jerrym]

A bunch of import O-linemen in TC = I highly doubt they go with 5 Canadian starting O-linemen (who will be the 2 OTs?).

The addition of another International OL, Will Campbell, suggests that you are right since why would they add more to an already long list if they were not planning to play any.

[OV Argo]

My bet would be Jones, as I think Noel needs more development, although he could turn into a good receiver in time.

Except that slotback is a more targeted receiver position in the CFL now, and playing Jones there would mean they have faith to target him plenty in the passing game; not so sure about that if they have 3 import receivers they like better to play slot (say Green, Fuller, Wylie, Brown or Morgan - though one of Brown or Morgan are intriguing prospects as the short side WR and i think Fuller played there before?) . OTOH - a lot of CFL teams now use one of their 7 only NI spots on the wide-side WR spot - not near as much passes thrown that way; Noel is more the pure WR vs. Jones with a bit more speed plus the experience at the position; I guess Jones could line-up there too? Noel needs more "development" but a mediocre like Vidal Hazelton got handed an Argo receiver starting spot as a raw rookie to the Canadian game ? - the 2 nice grabs I saw Noel make in that one game last season basically impressed me more than anything I saw out of Hazelton in his Argo time.

[Shatto]

After watching two T.C. practices --here are my impressions:
Offense-3 receivers have looked extremely good--Green, Fuller and Posey. They have taken most of the 1st string reps. The only question revolves around Green being ready to start the season. Paden may be in for a fight, as Worthy and Edwards appear to be having stellar camps. Worthy has the advantage, in that he looks to be the designated kick returner, at this time. Others such as Morgan, have shown flashes of excellent work but the question is, whether it is enough.
Whitaker appears to have a lock on the RB spot and the battle is for the back up position. Cross has been getting a fair amount of time on both the 1st and 2nd string offenses. Coombs has been predominant as both slot back and running back and has been getting a lot of 1sr string reps.
On the OL with Deane looking slightly injured, Holmes, McEwen, Watman and Van Zeyl look to be 4 National starters. As others have mentioned, Campbell (Jamal) seems to getting an opportunity to win the LT position but there are some good looking Internationals who will challenge him.
Defense--Lemon, Laing, Bishop and Butler have looked impressive as a starting defensive line when they go with 4 down lineman. Cash looks to have some type of injury and Waud was in, what looked to be, an air cast.
If McFadden is not ready to start the season and if Woods doesn't sign, Plummer will be the starting MLB. He has looked quite good but the question is, is he good enough?
They often go with 6 DB's with one occasionally morphing into a LB. Consistently, the starting 6 have been Owusu-Ansah and Gabriel at CB Mitchell at free safety and Sears, Murray and Vaughn. Owusu-Ansah has looked particularly good in the one on ones. For me, Berry, Alford, Harris have all shown good coverage skills at one time or another during the drills.
Odds and Sods--Onyeka has been getting a lot of playing time, mostly with the 2nd string defense but also occasionally with the 1st string. He certainly hasn't looked out of place when he has been out there. If Herdman is going to make this team, he will have to show he can contribute on special teams but so far his lack of foot speed make that look unlikely. Didn't realize that Brandon Harris, who is only 27, was drafted in the 2nd round of NFL draft and 60th overall.
The above are my impressions only. The coaches, who have decades of professional football experience and have seen all the practices, viewed film and have observed what type of character the players demonstrate, are obviously, in a much better position of evaluating the talent, than someone who is simply a fan, such as myself.
With the rest of training camp and an exhibition game, some players will cement their positions, while others will drop back and still other will come to the fore and show they should be on the team. Though it is stressful and demanding on the players it is an exciting time for us football fans.

[Wobbler]

Thanks for the observations and thoughts, Shatto. Looks like neither of our preseason games will be broadcast, so reports will be even more useful than usual!

I'm a bit disappointed that Sackey's name hasn't come up at all this year. We don't *need* him yet, but it would be comforting to know that he's at least a competent backup at this point.

[paulwoods13]

And as far as this it would be nice to have 8 or 9 NI starters thinking - the only way that happens is IF they go with 5 starting NI O-Linemen, PLUS one NI receiver in the 5 pack, for 6 NI starters on offence = very doubtful IMO; there is almost no way in hell there will be more than 2 NI starters on defence (a DT and a safety)

For once we agree on something, albeit simple math.

[paulwoods13]

The addition of another International OL, Will Campbell, suggests that you are right since why would they add more to an already long list if they were not planning to play any.

Because they don't know yet who is best for the line. They have several INTs and nine NATs at the moment. Clearly they will carry at least one and probably two INT OTs, the question is whether any of them will be on the 44.