How Important Are Canadians Drafted in 1st Rd?

[ArgoGabe22]

Some may disagree completely with how valuable a Canadian drafted in 1st Rd is, which is fine, and I understand that one can use any kind of stat to support their claims. Regardless, I found these numbers interesting. Are Canadians, especially those drafted in the 1st Rd, not as important of a player as we make them be? And do we as fans sometime overlook ways in which we can acquire Canadians that we did not draft.

Also is the saying "you are only as good as your Canadian starters" a bit of myth since the league relies on a heavy use of imports? Imports whom dominate every sort of CFL award. Or is that skewed since Canadians typically don't play skill positions and are mostly on the offensive line? And is it just math, more imports starting = more opportunites for them to be All-Stars, etc. Anyways....

- only one Canadian has ever won the CFL's Most Outstanding Player since Tony Gabriel (1978). That was Jon Cornish in 2013 (drafted in 2nd Rd)
- Brent Johnson (2006) was the first Canadian to win CFL's Most Outstanding Defensive player since Dave Fennell (1978). Drafted in 3rd Rd.
- In last 20 years, 12 players won the GC's Most Valuable Canadian while playing for their original team. But only 6 were drafted in 1st Rd.
- In the last 20 years, only 5 players won the Most Outstanding Canadian while being drafted in the 1st Rd and still playing for the team that drafted them.
- Since it's inception in 1972, only 4 Canadians ever won the CFL's Most Outstanding Rookie Award. Poplawski, Lee, O'Shea and Clermont.
- Out of 54 positions (both East & West), only 11 All-Stars in 2016 were Cdn. Only 2 were drafted in 1st Rd & 3 still played for their original team.
- 2015 saw 14 Canadians as All-Stars (East & West). Only 3 of those 14 were drafted in the 1st Rd and 5 out of the 14 still played for their original team.
- 2016 Grey Cup - OTT fielded 3 starters whom they drafted in 1st Rd. Calgary also fielded 3 of their own 1st Rd picks, if you include Maver.
- The 2016 Argos at times could have had up to 7 former CFL first round picks in the lineup, 4 of which were drafted by the Argos but they only won 5 games.
- Seems that the most valuable Canadians whom were drafted in first round are historically receivers, especially with the likes of Fantuz, Clermont, Cahoon, Gabriel picking up multiple awards throughout their careers.

These numbers don't necessarily mean much at this point. I also get some may be skewed, like Canadian rookies tend to be younger/inexperienced than an ex-NFL guy who is a "rookie"

[paulwoods13]

Didn't someone here start an analysis shortly after the Willy trade in an effort to prove the value of first-round picks? I vaguely recall whomever it was getting ticked off at some replies and stopping the exercise well short of completion.

One thing is for sure -- under current roster rules, only seven NATs must start (altho teams sometimes start eight or nine). That's seven out of a game roster of 44, compared to 10 out of 34 in the early 1980s. So without any statistics to support it, I would suggest "you are only as good as your Canadian starters" is less true now than it was then.

[OV Argo]

ALL Canadian/NI players are available to CFL teams in the 1st round; if a bunch of CFL GMs are clueless myopics who pass on outstanding football talent so that somebody else ends up getting them in the 3rd or 5th round = shows how pi$$-poor the scouting can be or else demonstrates lack of respect for Canadian talent.

Jerome Messam, Rene Paredes, Rob Bagg & Andre Durie were totally undrafted.

[argolio]

When did it become a crime for a free agent to have a good pro career?

[paulwoods13]

I would love to know what team sport doesn't have draft "errors" and "surprises" every year. Tom Brady was drafted in the sixth round. Does that make every NFL team (including the Patriots) clueless myopics? Same for Pavel Datsyuk and Henrik Zetterberg (to name two of dozens) in hockey, etc. Drafting is not a science.

[AngeloV]

When did it become a crime for a free agent to have a good pro career?

I don't know. Happens in every league though.

[gilthethrill]

I am starting to suspect that OV does not like CFL GM's and scouts.

[OV Argo]

I am starting to suspect that OV does not like CFL GM's and scouts.

Oh c'mon - whatever gave you that impression.

My point would be: claiming that there have been a lot of CFL 1st round draft flops or unproductive players says basically zip about the overall talent pool there - when 2nd thru later round picks or undrafted free agents often go on to be solid starters to league best type talent at times.

No, drafting is not an exact science in any sport; but the talent pool is there - in the case of the CFL there is IMO plenty of Canadian talent; and a lot of CFL GMs or "scouts" miss the boat when they have first round chances - due to GOB ignorance, bias and myopia. ;o)

[argolio]

Jerome Messam, Rene Paredes, Rob Bagg & Andre Durie were totally undrafted.

Did some digging on them.

According to Rob Bagg's bio, he made the Riders as a free agent rookie in 2007 but decided to go back to Queen's for his 5th year. Tells me he wasn't yet committed to being a pro.

Messam declared for both the 2008 CFL and NFL drafts, blew out his knee and sat out a year, and then returned to school in 2009 for his senior year.

Durie's career-threatening nerve injury is well documented.

Paredes was 15/17 his last year in CIS, but only 39/62 before that.


Late round choices, maybe, but none of these guys deserved to go early.

[Jayahre]

- only one Canadian has ever won the CFL's Most Outstanding Player since Tony Gabriel (1978). That was Jon Cornish in 2013 (drafted in 2nd Rd)

Both were ex-NCAA - Jon Cornish was a Kansas Jayhawk and Tony Gabriel a Syracuse Orangemen.
There has only been ONE CIS player to win the most outstanding player award, way back in the 60s Russ Jackson.
If the Canadian ratio rule was to produce quality players, we could debate it's effectiveness.
I think it's time the CFL looks at reducing the Canadian ratio down to 5 starters.

[OV Argo]

Did some digging on them.

According to Rob Bagg's bio, he made the Riders as a free agent rookie in 2007 but decided to go back to Queen's for his 5th year. Tells me he wasn't yet committed to being a pro.

Messam declared for both the 2008 CFL and NFL drafts, blew out his knee and sat out a year, and then returned to school in 2009 for his senior year.

Durie's career-threatening nerve injury is well documented.

Paredes was 15/17 his last year in CIS, but only 39/62 before that.


Late round choices, maybe, but none of these guys deserved to go early.

That's your opinion.

Messam was a stud productive RB in US college ball. with obvious pro plus size plus speed; Durie had the horrific injury, but he had recovered well enough to attend the CFL Combine (i.e, he wasn't hobbling around on crutches with the thought he might never play football again) - and his production and RB skill level in CIS ball was off the charts outstanding. Both those guys going totally undrafted by CFL GOBs was a total joke and had everything to do with their position - tailaback - where Americans are preferred by GOBs. GOBs yearly draft back-up fullback types, long-snappers or 12th rated O-linemen, but they passed on superb Canadian RB talent in those cases. Yet GOBs and plenty of trained seal type CFL fans continue to piss & moan about "ratio problems" or lack of Canadian talent, and call for the ratio to be lowered - so there would be less Canadian talent get to play in the big pro league in their own country.

Whatever.

[argolio]

Still amazes me how you still follow something you continually call a total joke.

[AngeloV]

Still amazes me how you still follow something you continually call a total joke.

Come on bro, we all know you followed New Kids on the block back in the day.

[OV Argo]

Still amazes me how you still follow something you continually call a total joke.

I`ve followed the CFL for decades. When did i ever call the CFL a total joke? Canadian football is my favorite sport.

Some of the same old thinking hack clowns who have got to run CFL teams or have lots of say in the league - now that's a different story - a whole bunch of them are a total joke to me.

Happens in other sports too - a total @ss-hat moron like Bettman running the NHL for years now, or recycled, hack dorks like Brian Burke or Totorello getting chance after chance to botch NHL teams.

Again - whatever.