Argonotes are no more

[Mightygoose]

So I guess no one liked 416Beats then? I thought they did a good job.

Going back to the team's vision on game entertainment. The team mentioned they wanted to create a college game type atmosphere which will include the use of a band.

The question that can come up is...well they already had a band? That's true the organization does....they're called 416Beats.
Yes it's more of a drumline than a full band howeverr with their work on the Raptors, ownership already had a working relationship with a firm they can trust. It's very common with ownership changes, for people to bring in 'their guys'. I think this is an example of it and with them being a professional band, there likely would be contractual language that would limit to what another band can do.

This is just my speculation of course so would love to hear the team's view on this matter.

[Argos1983]

This is a mistake by the org, plain and simple. A grassroots support operation that everyone loved. No good reason to ditch them has been given.

Yep, couldn't agree more.....as others have said an absolutely idiotic PR move --- hey I have an idea, let's alienate the few die-hards we have left ---- no loyalty shown for these proud few who actually supported this product through the dark ages of Rogers Centre.....ummm for all of you TFC haters out there, the atmosphere that was marketed as the only real selling point for the first 7-8 years of the franchises existence when frankly the soccer sucked something awful (and even today as being the best atmosphere in the city for a sporting event), was all created by grass roots supporters groups that were really from a very small group of fans who got together at various watering holes back in 2006-2007 (or were supporting the Toronto Lynx for goodness sake) and decided to support the product their way (usually based on things they had seen/done in other leagues/countries) -- the front office did not start those groups, the people (like the Argo-notes) started them (I am a member of one of those supporter groups since year 1) and then the front office got on board and created a relationship to work with them accordingly and created a mutually beneficial relationship of co-existence.....it was a "bottom up" (grass roots) and not a "top down" (MLSE corporate) creation as they say....a small group of fans created the atmosphere first and then the team got on board and pushed it along as their marketing tool, the supporters groups were not created by the team --- and that's why they worked, yes there have been some struggles along the way but believe me even starting with 30-100 Argo-notes is bigger numbers than a lot of the supporters groups had way back when, and that now fill the south end with noise and flags and banners etc.

.....but hey.....they've obviously got a plan right.....right? Bueller? Bueller?

[Rich]

On the other hand, it does show that the organization has a vision on what the game day entertainment and experience to look like. Though it would be nice to see them incorporated into game days, it's easier to have performance standards to measure up to when you hire a band as opposed to an volunteer organization.

I have to say I love the new drumline group, I thought they created that college football feel even better than the Argonotes did, mostly because I could hear them better. Their sound really bounces off the roof nicely. Great addition to gameday I would say.

On the other hand I love the Argonotes like everyone else for their history and their DIY grass roots feel, too bad some compromise couldn't have been reached. Would they have accepted being allowed to play during, say, one break per quarter?

[1971GreyCup]

Why does it have to be this or that? Tim Hortons Field has 28 separate game day events going on concurrently. We're constantly dropping one, and adding one. Makes absolutely no sense.

[Neely2005]

Why does it have to be this or that? Tim Hortons Field has 28 separate game day events going on concurrently. We're constantly dropping one, and adding one. Makes absolutely no sense.

Exactly. There is room for both the drum line and the Argonotes. The A Team dance team seems redundant though.

[Jamiedykstra]

Exactly. There is room for both the drum line and the Argonotes. The A Team dance team seems redundant though.

All - thanks for the passion on this topic. I just wanted to jump in quickly to state that the organization absolutely agrees there is room for more than one entertainment or grassroots group to be a part of the game day experience for Argos games. We have the utmost respect for the Argonotes and wish they were still involved and a part of the game day experience. Steve knows the door is always open. After he informed us that the band decided they would not be back this year, we reached out to them to see if they would be open to being a part of the back-to-back Grey Cup celebration on July 24 since they were a part of the team then. Our goal has always been to make Argos at BMO Field a great game day experience. We hoped the Argonotes would be a part of it, but we respect their decision not to be. We will continue to strive towards elevating the game day experience. If you ever have any game day experience ideas or feedback, please feel free to send them to me: jdykstra@argonauts.ca.

Thanks everyone. Looking forward to seeing you all on the 24th.

Jamie

[doubleblue]

Past Argo Management used to poll the fans ( I think it was during the Pelley era) and maybe it was just for season ticket holders. But if you want to know what the people are really thinking or why they are not going to games, duh, might be something to try again. I remember one big thing I put down on my survey back then was the unending unGodly music, because I had finally got my wife to attend a game with me and we couldn't communicate with each other sitting side by side. So of course that was her first and last time. The drum roll doesn't do anything for me or these guys throwing the girls in the air, but if it helps bring in fans I have no objection.
But I understand they are trying to reach the younger fans to make it "like awesome" "like" (I think that the big word now for the younger generation). But I notice the younger generation are generally there with their parents or grandparents and the last time I checked most of them have a lot of influence over what junior thinks or does.
On the Argonotes. It looks like on the surface to me, that the Argos would be just as happy if they disappeared while trying to sound like they wanted them back.

[ArgoGabe22]

Past Argo Management used to poll the fans ( I think it was during the Pelley era) and maybe it was just for season ticket holders. But if you want to know what the people are really thinking or why they are not going to games, duh, might be something to try again.

Argos had a survey after last season. More so about scheduling but it still provided opportunities for you to fill in your own thoughts. Plus there are Town Halls, Argo fan meeting with Copeland and co., and employees like Hook and encourage anyone to contact them.

[QBall]

The question that can come up is...well they already had a band? That's true the organization does....they're called 416Beats.
Yes it's more of a drumline than a full band howeverr with their work on the Raptors, ownership already had a working relationship with a firm they can trust. It's very common with ownership changes, for people to bring in 'their guys'. I think this is an example of it and with them being a professional band, there likely would be contractual language that would limit to what another band can do.

416Beats is a band for hire. Their loyalty is bought which means once the money runs out so do they. This is in contrast to an organization like the Argonotes which will stick with the team through thick and thin and all the ask for is a small section of a stadium which never sells out anyway. That is something that money can't buy. Only Saskatchewan and Toronto had this, and even amongst the teams in Toronto only the Argonauts had this, and they pissed it away because of a "vision".

[Neely2005]

Past Argo Management used to poll the fans ( I think it was during the Pelley era) and maybe it was just for season ticket holders. But if you want to know what the people are really thinking or why they are not going to games, duh, might be something to try again. I remember one big thing I put down on my survey back then was the unending unGodly music, because I had finally got my wife to attend a game with me and we couldn't communicate with each other sitting side by side. So of course that was her first and last time. The drum roll doesn't do anything for me or these guys throwing the girls in the air, but if it helps bring in fans I have no objection.
But I understand they are trying to reach the younger fans to make it "like awesome" "like" (I think that the big word now for the younger generation). But I notice the younger generation are generally there with their parents or grandparents and the last time I checked most of them have a lot of influence over what junior thinks or does.
On the Argonotes. It looks like on the surface to me, that the Argos would be just as happy if they disappeared while trying to sound like they wanted them back.

There were 2 season ticket holder surveys last year. They seem to have implemented a lot of the suggestions already.

[shayman]

Live. July 24. BMO Field. One. Night. Only.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dzOHq5WbQ8k

[Mightygoose]

416Beats is a band for hire. Their loyalty is bought which means once the money runs out so do they. This is in contrast to an organization like the Argonotes which will stick with the team through thick and thin and all the ask for is a small section of a stadium which never sells out anyway. That is something that money can't buy. Only Saskatchewan and Toronto had this, and even amongst the teams in Toronto only the Argonauts had this, and they pissed it away because of a "vision".

The players on the field we cheer on are for hire too but I don't see anyone making a fuss out of this.

Either way how can the Argos piss something away when they clearly said they wanted them in and it was the Argonotes that declined? At least for this season.

[paulwoods13]

Either way how can the Argos piss something away when they clearly said they wanted them in and it was the Argonotes that declined? At least for this season.

It's equally clear the Argos didn't want the band to play during games. What's the point in having a band if it can't play? No wonder the Notes said no. The org should rethink this, IMO.

[Mightygoose]

It's equally clear the Argos didn't want the band to play during games. What's the point in having a band if it can't play? No wonder the Notes said no. The org should rethink this, IMO.

I'm confident they'll figure out a way to incorporate them into future seasons. Based on response here and the organization taking the time to address it, there's a compromise somewhere much like how bringing/keeping Hogan on the radio in some level.

With the Argonotes on board for July 24, at least we know there's no rift between the 2 firms and hopefully they'll forge something for 2018 and beyond.

[Shatto]

It is not uncommon for an organization, which wishes to end a relationship with a person or group, to make conditions untenable for the person/group and make it clear that they have fallen from favour. When the person/group inevitably ends the relationship as unworkable, the organization can then claim it was the person's/group's decision, not theirs. The person/group has been maneuvered into leaving. Having reread the article, this is exactly what Hayman contends happened. It is effective but not a very honourable thing to do.

Again a decision has been made without proper examination of the possible negative consequences. This appears to be a habit of Copeland and company. The decision making strategies of senior management leaves one to question, how a supposedly smart group continues to get it wrong. There is a desperate need for a refresher course in Business 101.

[Wobbler]

I'm confident they'll figure out a way to incorporate them into future seasons

An amateur team-focused band isn't something you can pencil into your future plans. Why would they continue to exist in any form, now that their only purpose no longer exists?

[Mightygoose]

An amateur team-focused band isn't something you can pencil into your future plans. Why would they continue to exist in any form, now that their only purpose no longer exists?

Considering both the team and those from Argonotes have said there was a role for the band to be part of team, something was going to be penciled but declined.

Other than not playing during games, very few would know what was actually discussed and offerd. Since we do know that they will be part of the July 24 game, that suggests that the relationship is not soured so I wouldn't rule out them being back in the future.

[ArgoGabe22]

Considering both the team and those from Argonotes have said there was a role for the band to be part of team, something was going to be penciled but declined.

Other than not playing during games, very few would know what was actually discussed and offerd. Since we do know that they will be part of the July 24 game, that suggests that the relationship is not soured so I wouldn't rule out them being back in the future.

It's obvious the Argonotes have a purpose and do desire some sort of appreciation from the team. That could easily be some form of more play time. With the Argos hiring their own form of in game entertainment, it became clear team did not share the same vision. Argonotes aren't going to come and compete with the in-game DJ (which I think is a complete waste of funds). If the Argonotes feel like the team has silenced them a bit, then I don't blame them for "retiring". There is obviously more to the story, but I think the Athetic story tells enough. There's no need for you defend the team or 416 beats in every one of your posts. Argonotes don't feel welcomed/appreciated. I think it's become clear.

[Mightygoose]

It's obvious the Argonotes have a purpose and do desire some sort of appreciation from the team. That could easily be some form of more play time. With the Argos hiring their own form of in game entertainment, it became clear team did not share the same vision. Argonotes aren't going to come and compete with the in-game DJ (which I think is a complete waste of funds). If the Argonotes feel like the team has silenced them a bit, then I don't blame them for "retiring". There is obviously more to the story, but I think the Athetic story tells enough. There's no need for you defend the team or 416 beats in every one of your posts. Argonotes don't feel welcomed/appreciated. I think it's become clear.

I will agree there is more to the story than what's appearing on both their posts and in the Athletic article which is why I guess some could say I'm defending the team or what I call - an alternate viewpoint.

There was a harsh criticism with the team during the 'Foley released by text' incident. We got a more complete picture during town hall and fences were mended.

There was harsh criticism when they announced Hogan and the radio coverage would be no more and for good reason. They listened and a compromise was done.

So with this, there is still another chapter IMO and will respectively disagree that they're trying to aliente the fanbase and let's see how they move forward. If the Argonotes don't feel appreciated and are that strong about it, I don't think they would come back on the 24th. The door is clearly open.

[QBall]

The players on the field we cheer on are for hire too but I don't see anyone making a fuss out of this.

Either way how can the Argos piss something away when they clearly said they wanted them in and it was the Argonotes that declined? At least for this season.

Players come and go but the fans are suppose to be for life. You hire players but you're not suppose to hire fans. Fan devotion needs to be supported, especially when the on-field product has been so poor, because that is what makes them fans for life.

And the Argos pissed it away because you don't instill conditions on an organization like the Argonotes for them to appear. A fan based band, especially in Canada, is Sasquatch level rare and is something you're supposed to support because once it's gone you don't get it back.