Final Roster

[Bleeds Double Blue]

Just wondering if there is anyone on the waiver wire that could help the team and add to the numbers chaos.

[Jon Gonzo]

I am glad the Drew Willy trade can now go down in the books....as an official disaster.

Let it be a lesson learned, and it shall be an example of how to shred a team to pieces. It'll be an example of what NOT to do for a long, long time.

It probably cost Barker and Milanovich their jobs, and both are decent football men.

It should also be an example of how you can follow a football team, passionately, yet still find fault with blatant mistakes such as this unmitigated and desperate blunder. It's not treasonous as some would have it. Just endemic intuition.

I expect another All Star season from TJ Heath, and it looks like Faith may even start in his rookie season.

[Wobbler]

Um, it "shredded the team to pieces... for the next decade, at least"? That's an... interesting statement.

[paulwoods13]

Let it be a lesson learned, and it shall be an example of how to shred a team to pieces...for the next decade, at least.

...

I expect another All Star season from TJ Heath, and it looks like Faith may even start in his rookie season.

The next decade? Seriously? And if the Argos win the Grey Cup this year, what then?

Maybe Faith starts from Day 1, maybe he develops into an all-star. Or maybe he doesn't. Maybe Heath becomes a perennial all-star. Or maybe he doesn't. None of those outcomes is known yet, so to pronounce this as a trade that shredded the team to pieces for at least a decade seems just a tad over the top.

A year ago at this time, none of us knew anything about TJ Heath. He had a decent season, before and after the trade. He made some big plays and, like all DBs, he got burned on occasion. Who's to say that the Argos' two DHBs this year won't have better seasons? We'll find out in the weeks to come.

[paulwoods13]

Alford and Berry were both released even though they appeared to have performed reasonably well last year and also in this year's pre-season camp and games---leaving only two backup DB's (one on the PR). Compared to the number of backups in other positions, this seems a little light.

I count nine DBs on the roster, plus one on the PR.

Harris, Brandon
Mitchell, Joshua
Owusu-Ansah, Akwasi
Sears Jr., Johnny
Vaughn, Cassius
Black, Matt
Gabriel, Jermaine
Webster, Matt
Woodson, Robert

I guess one of them might line up at OLB but that still leaves at least three backups.

[paulwoods13]

When Ray goes down, I'd much rather take a chance on some of the young guys, then have Willy wasting the teams and fans time out there.

That's if, not when, fortunately. And so would I. But if it happens, it will mean trying to compete without experience at QB. That's risky. (And yes, having Willy as the primary backup would also involve some risk.)

Eighteen months ago, some on here were saying the Argos had to re-sign Harris so that they could grow the fanbase by competing for a playoff spot as soon as they moved to BMO. I didn't agree that was essential. But if RR gets hurt and our fortunes go south because none of our backup QBs has significant experience, that should not come as a surprise to anyone.

[Gill The Thrill]

I expect another All Star season from TJ Heath, and it looks like Faith may even start in his rookie season.

It was just one year, you may want to hold off on the high expectations. We've seen many DBs have one good year in the CFL and then get figured out by receivers and QBs. He may have an all-star year, but his game may slip also. One good year at DB does not guarantee a long-term career like Carl Brazely or Corey Banks.

[ArgoGabe22]

Let it be a lesson learned, and it shall be an example of how to shred a team to pieces...for the next decade, at least.

It probably cost Barker and Milanovich their jobs, and both are decent football men.

The trade really didn't hurt the franchise as much as some make it. Heath can be replaced and I'm not even sure what to expect from him this season. Our top receiver left Winnipeg after a bad stint there and was just released from Ottawa. Who knows if Heath is the real deal or just benefited from getting lots of opportunities after a lot of 2 and outs and long drives from the opposing offence. That 1st pick was a blow but the new staff did a good job recovering from that lost pick and did well in the draft IMO. But the trade really didn't shred the team. This lousy football had to be shredded and we didn't trade away any of our key players.

I don't think the trade alone costed Barker's job. The trade certainly didn't help his case for returning next season but if the team can't win, he's on the hot seat regardless if he pulls that trade off or not. Could Kilgore and LeFavour squeeze us into the playoffs? Probably not. He's probably gone 99.9% if the team doesn't make the playoffs.

As for Milanovich, his job was safe and it's not like he resigned just to resign. He did get a pretty good NFL gig out of it. Barker leaving may have made his decision a lot easier but that trade did not cost him his job what so ever.

[Jon Gonzo]

The next decade? Seriously? And if the Argos win the Grey Cup this year, what then?

Maybe Faith starts from Day 1, maybe he develops into an all-star. Or maybe he doesn't. Maybe Heath becomes a perennial all-star. Or maybe he doesn't. None of those outcomes is known yet, so to pronounce this as a trade that shredded the team to pieces for at least a decade seems just a tad over the top.

A year ago at this time, none of us knew anything about TJ Heath. He had a decent season, before and after the trade. He made some big plays and, like all DBs, he got burned on occasion. Who's to say that the Argos' two DHBs this year won't have better seasons? We'll find out in the weeks to come.

Mis-stated. Awkward sentence. Fixed. What I was trying to say, is that it'll live as an example for a long while. I stand by the rest.

[R.J]

That's if, not when, fortunately. And so would I. But if it happens, it will mean trying to compete without experience at QB. That's risky. (And yes, having Willy as the primary backup would also involve some risk.)

Eighteen months ago, some on here were saying the Argos had to re-sign Harris so that they could grow the fanbase by competing for a playoff spot as soon as they moved to BMO. I didn't agree that was essential. But if RR gets hurt and our fortunes go south because none of our backup QBs has significant experience, that should not come as a surprise to anyone.

It's not a question of if Ray gets injured anymore, it's when IMO.
As for Willy and his experience - Willy's a poor QB, and his experience sure didn't keep him here in Toronto. Experience is good when a player is at least decent - Willy couldn't go past his first read, and once he got hit: game over. Willy even with a restructured deal still came with a heavy price tag, and I think a large part of the reason for his release was Matthews play in the second preseason game (still not a fan of Matthews). Ergo, why pay Willy when Matthews could theoretically give you the same production for less money ?

If the Argos wanted an experienced QB, they should have gone after Tate. As I've stated previously: hedging the teams bets on Ricky Ray is asking for trouble, and now we'll see if they find it.

[Jon Gonzo]

Put it this way; I do not want to see the team I follow making moves such as this one ever again. It's bad business, and it was called as such by those in the know and those who are passionate fans of this football club. Frankly, although I respect you as a fellow fan and a good fellow, I believe this debate has been concluded. I feel fortunate that we have management that can moves this team in a positive direction now. I feel things stopped making sense last season, and I am not alone in my feelings.

[paulwoods13]

Tnx for the clarification. Again, tho, if two years from now Heath and Ekakitie are out of football, or Ekakitie is just another Gaydosh (one of many examples of high picks who don't pan out), or the Argos have won a Cup, I don't agree it will be remembered as a notorious example of stupidity. It's simply too early to reach such a conclusion. The full story may have been written on Willy, but it has not been on the player and picks who were surrendered for him.

[paulwoods13]

It's not a question of if Ray gets injured anymore, it's when IMO.

Must suck to be an Argo fan.

[gilthethrill]

Who says Ray goes down? Based on what?

[R.J]

Must suck to be an Argo fan.

Not really, I'm excited to see what Fajardo and Prukop can do in the future, and will wait patiently to see them. Not to mention the slim chance the Baker MayField comes up here. Not my fault Ray can't be trusted anymore.

Who says Ray goes down? Based on what?

Is this a serious question ?

[Shatto]

I dislike the "he said" "I said" dialogue we sometimes find ourselves getting into but perhaps, I should have been more specific in my comments about being slightly surprised at the release of both Berry and Alford.

It looks as if the coach wants to play 4 International DB's and one International hybrid DB/LB. There are presently 6 International players (Harris, Mitchell, Murray, Owusu-Ansah, Sears and Vaughn) for those 5 spots. Considering the number of International backups at other positions, having only one International backup at this position, IMO appeared a little light, especially when Berry and Alford seemed to have played reasonably well previously.

Not a big issue --just a mild surprise--that's all.

[Jon Gonzo]

I respect your views on this Paul; however, I look at this structurally as a move -- you simply do not make. You just don't do it. Willy could have/ may have been had for free, if Barker wasn't in panic mode. Or, someone like him. He clearly is not a great QB. Panic is what makes teams do dumb things. Like when the Bruins traded Thornton and Seguin. You don't trade a future hall of famer for 3 quarters on the dollar. Boston got Marco Sturm, Wayne Primeau and Brad Stuart. When you make a move like this there are all kinds of implications that come to bare, and the trickle down is felt for years to come. Mike O'Connell was never trusted as a GM again. There are too few teams in this league to wasting the first choice in a Draft that has the potential to turn the fortunes of any franchise around for many years. Canadian talent is a HUGE factor. And this is a no-no. TJ Heath is another good American DB, and there are many. BUT, the Argos couldn't find them for 3 seasons straight, and he was very well respected and one of the only big play players on a bad, bad defense. It ripped the team apart and it was bad business, and bad for business.

[argolio]

My biggest disappointment was that Malcolm Williams didn't make the roster. Is this his 4th camp with the team? I couldn't believe how good he looked, ran a couple of crisp patterns in that Hamilton game. I wouldn't be surprised if Austin tried to grab him off our PR.

I think this was his second camp.

one QB that did not impress me may have been slightly injured, not sure why they are not cutting him, maybe you cant cut a guy injured, some suggestion he was slightly injured.

In his defense, the Ticats played more starters against Bethel-Thompson than Mathews or Prukop. Evaluating QBs purely based on stats doesn't always tell the whole story.

Honest question, when was the last time that Willy looked good? It certainly wasn't with the Argonauts. He looked scared, tentative & hesitant during his entire tenure with the Argonauts. He didn't look any better in the preseason game to me either.

After the game in Winnipeg (or more specifically after the Foley RTP penalty in that game), practically every Argo looked scared, tentative & hesitant. We didn't lose every one of those games just because of Willy.

Look what happened when a legend like Don Matthews was brought in mid-season to rescue the 2008 Argos. He went 0-8. Collapsing teams are hard to save.

Anyway, Willy got a fair shot this year, he's out, and that's that.

If the Argos wanted an experienced QB, they should have gone after Tate. As I've stated previously: hedging the teams bets on Ricky Ray is asking for trouble, and now we'll see if they find it.

If the worry is the fragility of your starter, having a more fragile and smaller backup isn't my answer. And he just got hurt trying to be a hero instead of protecting himself.

[Shirley]

Tate is injury prone , and I believe he is already received some kind of injury in pre season. I am happy with who we have, I think we should have held on to Dan Lef, but am happy if Cody is #2 and Mathews #3

However if a person felt they had to look outside of Argos, there was 1 player they could have gone after, the very best QB that is not currently a starter that should be a starter is Lulay.
I said a while back that I was worried Argos would go after Tate, because he was so delicate so injury prone, glad they did not. But clearly the best QB in the league that is currently not starting is Lulay, in fact he is probably one of the top qbs in the league

I am very happy with Ray starting and Cody backing up, I hope that will be the order, clearly Mathews would be #3

It's not a question of if Ray gets injured anymore, it's when IMO.
As for Willy and his experience - Willy's a poor QB, and his experience sure didn't keep him here in Toronto. Experience is good when a player is at least decent - Willy couldn't go past his first read, and once he got hit: game over. Willy even with a restructured deal still came with a heavy price tag, and I think a large part of the reason for his release was Matthews play in the second preseason game (still not a fan of Matthews). Ergo, why pay Willy when Matthews could theoretically give you the same production for less money ?

If the Argos wanted an experienced QB, they should have gone after Tate. As I've stated previously: hedging the teams bets on Ricky Ray is asking for trouble, and now we'll see if they find it.

[Shirley]

At the risk of getting your dander up, I will be surprised if Ray does not sit for a few games due to injury, will be surprised if he does not get more than 1 injury. Confident though if they have Cody as #2 we will be in great shape

Who says Ray goes down? Based on what?