Final Roster

[paulwoods13]

When Ray goes down, I'd much rather take a chance on some of the young guys, then have Willy wasting the teams and fans time out there.

That's if, not when, fortunately. And so would I. But if it happens, it will mean trying to compete without experience at QB. That's risky. (And yes, having Willy as the primary backup would also involve some risk.)

Eighteen months ago, some on here were saying the Argos had to re-sign Harris so that they could grow the fanbase by competing for a playoff spot as soon as they moved to BMO. I didn't agree that was essential. But if RR gets hurt and our fortunes go south because none of our backup QBs has significant experience, that should not come as a surprise to anyone.

[R.J]

That's if, not when, fortunately. And so would I. But if it happens, it will mean trying to compete without experience at QB. That's risky. (And yes, having Willy as the primary backup would also involve some risk.)

Eighteen months ago, some on here were saying the Argos had to re-sign Harris so that they could grow the fanbase by competing for a playoff spot as soon as they moved to BMO. I didn't agree that was essential. But if RR gets hurt and our fortunes go south because none of our backup QBs has significant experience, that should not come as a surprise to anyone.

It's not a question of if Ray gets injured anymore, it's when IMO.
As for Willy and his experience - Willy's a poor QB, and his experience sure didn't keep him here in Toronto. Experience is good when a player is at least decent - Willy couldn't go past his first read, and once he got hit: game over. Willy even with a restructured deal still came with a heavy price tag, and I think a large part of the reason for his release was Matthews play in the second preseason game (still not a fan of Matthews). Ergo, why pay Willy when Matthews could theoretically give you the same production for less money ?

If the Argos wanted an experienced QB, they should have gone after Tate. As I've stated previously: hedging the teams bets on Ricky Ray is asking for trouble, and now we'll see if they find it.

[paulwoods13]

It's not a question of if Ray gets injured anymore, it's when IMO.

Must suck to be an Argo fan.

[R.J]

Must suck to be an Argo fan.

Not really, I'm excited to see what Fajardo and Prukop can do in the future, and will wait patiently to see them. Not to mention the slim chance the Baker MayField comes up here. Not my fault Ray can't be trusted anymore.

Who says Ray goes down? Based on what?

Is this a serious question ?

[Shirley]

Tate is injury prone , and I believe he is already received some kind of injury in pre season. I am happy with who we have, I think we should have held on to Dan Lef, but am happy if Cody is #2 and Mathews #3

However if a person felt they had to look outside of Argos, there was 1 player they could have gone after, the very best QB that is not currently a starter that should be a starter is Lulay.
I said a while back that I was worried Argos would go after Tate, because he was so delicate so injury prone, glad they did not. But clearly the best QB in the league that is currently not starting is Lulay, in fact he is probably one of the top qbs in the league

I am very happy with Ray starting and Cody backing up, I hope that will be the order, clearly Mathews would be #3

It's not a question of if Ray gets injured anymore, it's when IMO.
As for Willy and his experience - Willy's a poor QB, and his experience sure didn't keep him here in Toronto. Experience is good when a player is at least decent - Willy couldn't go past his first read, and once he got hit: game over. Willy even with a restructured deal still came with a heavy price tag, and I think a large part of the reason for his release was Matthews play in the second preseason game (still not a fan of Matthews). Ergo, why pay Willy when Matthews could theoretically give you the same production for less money ?

If the Argos wanted an experienced QB, they should have gone after Tate. As I've stated previously: hedging the teams bets on Ricky Ray is asking for trouble, and now we'll see if they find it.

[R.J]

If the worry is the fragility of your starter, having a more fragile and smaller backup isn't my answer. And he just got hurt trying to be a hero instead of protecting himself.

Tate is injury prone , and I believe he is already received some kind of injury in pre season. I am happy with who we have, I think we should have held on to Dan Lef, but am happy if Cody is #2 and Mathews #3

However if a person felt they had to look outside of Argos, there was 1 player they could have gone after, the very best QB that is not currently a starter that should be a starter is Lulay.
I said a while back that I was worried Argos would go after Tate, because he was so delicate so injury prone, glad they did not. But clearly the best QB in the league that is currently not starting is Lulay, in fact he is probably one of the top qbs in the league

I am very happy with Ray starting and Cody backing up, I hope that will be the order, clearly Mathews would be #3

Not what I meant when it came to Tate. Paul's point was that Willy should've stuck around because he was a vet, if having a few years in the CFL is the only requirement for the Argos back-up position, then Tate could've filled that. Tate is a vet, who's won some games, comes in at a cheaper cap hit, and you wouldn't have had to trade much to acquire him (unlike Willy). Both Tate and Willy have shown to be injury prone, so for me there's not much difference between the two. The concern of course is that Ray will eventually get injured again, but I see no point in bringing or keeping a crappy QB's to back-up, what we have is fine for now. Yes, they're all green, but at least most of them have some promise and potential. If we lose with a bunch of young QB's, at least they'll be able to develop, whereas Willy would've just been a waste of space IMO.

[paulwoods13]

Paul's point was that Willy should've stuck around because he was a vet, if having a few years in the CFL is the only requirement for the Argos back-up position, then Tate could've filled that.

This is ridiculous. That's a complete misquote and mischaracterization of what I said. For the record, here is what I said:

I can't argue the decision based on what I saw in the preseason, but make no mistake -- there is a risk here. If RR goes down we will be counting on guys who have hardly played in this league, at the most important position. It worked great in 2013 with Collaros and 2015 with Harris, it worked terribly in 2016 with Kilgore. I know many fans think Willy is useless but the fact is, he has faced CFL defences dozens of times, and won games in this league. Same cannot be said for any of our other backup QBs. That said, I am super-high on Fajardo, and expect at least one of the two rookies to eventually develop into a player. Mathews is a stopgap until that happens, IMO.

He hasn't looked good since 2015. But he has played a lot in this league. I'm not saying he should have been kept -- I'm saying not keeping him exposes us to the risk of inexperience if the starter goes down. This happened last year, and a lot of fans on this forum and elsewhere were highly critical of mgmt for not having someone with more experience than Kilgore in reserve. That's where we are again. I'm fine with it because I expect Fajardo to perform better than Kilgore did if called upon this year. But I also expected Kilgore to perform at a high level last year, and after one impressive performance, that expectation proved to be wrong.

That's if, not when, fortunately. And so would I. But if it happens, it will mean trying to compete without experience at QB. That's risky. (And yes, having Willy as the primary backup would also involve some risk.)



Perhaps you'd like to correct the record on this.

[Argo57]

This is ridiculous. That's a complete misquote and mischaracterization of what I said. For the record, here is what I said:

I can't argue the decision based on what I saw in the preseason, but make no mistake -- there is a risk here. If RR goes down we will be counting on guys who have hardly played in this league, at the most important position. It worked great in 2013 with Collaros and 2015 with Harris, it worked terribly in 2016 with Kilgore. I know many fans think Willy is useless but the fact is, he has faced CFL defences dozens of times, and won games in this league. Same cannot be said for any of our other backup QBs. That said, I am super-high on Fajardo, and expect at least one of the two rookies to eventually develop into a player. Mathews is a stopgap until that happens, IMO.

He hasn't looked good since 2015. But he has played a lot in this league. I'm not saying he should have been kept -- I'm saying not keeping him exposes us to the risk of inexperience if the starter goes down. This happened last year, and a lot of fans on this forum and elsewhere were highly critical of mgmt for not having someone with more experience than Kilgore in reserve. That's where we are again. I'm fine with it because I expect Fajardo to perform better than Kilgore did if called upon this year. But I also expected Kilgore to perform at a high level last year, and after one impressive performance, that expectation proved to be wrong.

That's if, not when, fortunately. And so would I. But if it happens, it will mean trying to compete without experience at QB. That's risky. (And yes, having Willy as the primary backup would also involve some risk.)



Perhaps you'd like to correct the record on this.

I think you should call in your legal team, Dewey-Cheatham and Howe!!

[Shirley]

I think you should call in your legal team, Dewey-Cheatham and Howe!!

Johnny Carson right on, they put him into glass eyes as an investment as well..very good

[R.J]

Haha no worries. Stating that Ray will go down implies that he is injury prone. I strongly feel that he is not. I agree that the team is fine with Mathews and Fajardo behind him.

How many starts out of possible starts has Ray had since becoming an Argonaut ?

[Argo57]

Many starts out of possible starts has Ray had since becoming an Argonaut ?

A lot, a fact that can't be ignored.
They just have to be ready if/when something happens.

[R.J]

This is ridiculous. That's a complete misquote and mischaracterization of what I said. For the record, here is what I said:

I can't argue the decision based on what I saw in the preseason, but make no mistake -- there is a risk here. If RR goes down we will be counting on guys who have hardly played in this league, at the most important position. It worked great in 2013 with Collaros and 2015 with Harris, it worked terribly in 2016 with Kilgore. I know many fans think Willy is useless but the fact is, he has faced CFL defences dozens of times, and won games in this league. Same cannot be said for any of our other backup QBs. That said, I am super-high on Fajardo, and expect at least one of the two rookies to eventually develop into a player. Mathews is a stopgap until that happens, IMO.

He hasn't looked good since 2015. But he has played a lot in this league. I'm not saying he should have been kept -- I'm saying not keeping him exposes us to the risk of inexperience if the starter goes down. This happened last year, and a lot of fans on this forum and elsewhere were highly critical of mgmt for not having someone with more experience than Kilgore in reserve. That's where we are again. I'm fine with it because I expect Fajardo to perform better than Kilgore did if called upon this year. But I also expected Kilgore to perform at a high level last year, and after one impressive performance, that expectation proved to be wrong.

That's if, not when, fortunately. And so would I. But if it happens, it will mean trying to compete without experience at QB. That's risky. (And yes, having Willy as the primary backup would also involve some risk.)



Perhaps you'd like to correct the record on this.

Sorry Paul, but my interpretation of what you wrote is that due to Kilgore flopping you're very cautious about going with non veterans this season, which I understand, but Willy even as a back-up is useless IMO. When Ray gets hurt Willy won't be able to hold the fort, and we'd have to start the inexperienced guys anyway. Saves us the headache and money IMO.

[argotom]

Not what I meant when it came to Tate. Paul's point was that Willy should've stuck around because he was a vet, if having a few years in the CFL is the only requirement for the Argos back-up position, then Tate could've filled that. Tate is a vet, who's won some games, comes in at a cheaper cap hit, and you wouldn't have had to trade much to acquire him (unlike Willy). Both Tate and Willy have shown to be injury prone, so for me there's not much difference between the two. The concern of course is that Ray will eventually get injured again, but I see no point in bringing or keeping a crappy QB's to back-up, what we have is fine for now. Yes, they're all green, but at least most of them have some promise and potential. If we lose with a bunch of young QB's, at least they'll be able to develop, whereas Willy would've just been a waste of space IMO.

I echo my comment on the Will thread.
Bottom line we are in trouble again in the most important position on the team.
Every effort should be made now to pry James Franklin from the Esks.

[gilthethrill]

I echo my comment on the Will thread.
Bottom line we are in trouble again in the most important position on the team.
Every effort should be made now to pry James Franklin from the Esks.

I disagree Tom. Fajardo can play in this league. Ricky is going to have a big year as a starter. No need to feel the Argos are in trouble with the best position.

[Neely2005]

It's not a question of if Ray gets injured anymore, it's when IMO.
As for Willy and his experience - Willy's a poor QB, and his experience sure didn't keep him here in Toronto. Experience is good when a player is at least decent - Willy couldn't go past his first read, and once he got hit: game over. Willy even with a restructured deal still came with a heavy price tag, and I think a large part of the reason for his release was Matthews play in the second preseason game (still not a fan of Matthews). Ergo, why pay Willy when Matthews could theoretically give you the same production for less money ?

If the Argos wanted an experienced QB, they should have gone after Tate. As I've stated previously: hedging the teams bets on Ricky Ray is asking for trouble, and now we'll see if they find it.

Just like it's not a question of if Collaros AKA Mr. Glass gets injured anymore, it's when.