Where to find 1/2 Stadium of Fans

[Neely2005]

Article in the Ottawa Sun from yesterday talking about the renaissance of interest in the football team over the last few years:

http://www.ottawasun.com/2017/07/04/...edblacks-fever

The main thrust of the article talks about the 25000 seat sellouts that Ottawa is enjoying as being a product of a few things --- the bars/restaurants/stores/gym and such surrounding the new stadium creating it as a "place to be" --- hard to replicate that with a stadium like BMO that is not really immediately next to anything until one leaves the Ex Grounds....I guess tailgating is our attempt at this....a noble attempt, but it does not seem to be working too well frankly in terms of increasing attendance numbers.....

The other main point of the article was talking about the diversity of age and gender of the crowd (they have an annual Women's Night the article states, as someone here had also suggested) --- and the need to market to new and younger fans --- and that it mostly comes down to the atmosphere and vibe around the stadium which makes the experience - and that the younger fans don't just want to sit and watch a game for three hours they want to interact, drink etc. (I think the Tiger Cats are also trying some type of admission where you can stand on a patio and move around the stadium etc.) ---- maybe the North-End patio (beer garden) idea at BMO is not such a bad thought....but the key was the atmosphere and vibe and about making it the fun place to be --- now again, Ottawa has two huge advantages over the Argos in this regard -- no Blue Jays as a sports entertainment option in the summer which is drawing a lot of the younger crowd away from BMO potentially, and also no TFC who is doing the atmosphere and vibe thing better in the Argos very own stadium already.....the Argos have a very difficult nut to crack as they have a much different market than Ottawa (with more competition for the sports entertainment $) and even the good ideas from there won't necessarily transfer here and work as well......

Just an FYI Ottawa has a soccer team too, they play out of the same stadium as the Redblacks do.

[Neely2005]

Speaking of attendance:

http://3downnation.com/2017/07/04/ar...tendance-woes/

[Argofan_1000]

the whole city didn't abandoned the team, but they need reasons to attend. Too much negativity. They need to win and be talked about. The players need to be talked about - A.J. needs to have more games like the first. Needs a champion, someone who will challenge the Fan 590. Compare the caliber of talent the CFL has to the very weak draft pool the NHL has if necessary - you need to shut them up. 75000 playing NCAA football 19-25 year olds - 1500 playing Major Jr. A ages 15 to 19. What league do you think would net you a higher caliber player? In fact football has as many playing football as all the other NCAA sports added together! NOW THATS A TALENT POOL. Also as many playing Usports football with 28 teams as there are playing Major Jr. A hockey with 60

The CFL also has the game itself as a marketing tool - it is fun to watch and you don't have to make your own entertainment

Also the fans need positive news, must have positive news, like the stadium is sold out, like the team made money, like the TV ratings are increasing. They are building the foundation but will have to make sure the other items are addressed.

Bell could be a major sponsor - take up the shortfall so that the team makes money. Or don't and let the team loose money and create more negativity and let the fans sit on their hands. Either way its the same amount of money for Bell.

[paulwoods13]

If the Blue Jays are out of the race by the end of the summer, and the Argos go something like 8-4, we will be selling BMO out by the fall. Casual fans are drawn by winning teams, and the Argos haven't had a "winning" team in 20 years. Sure we fluked a couple of Cups, but we've sucked every regular season since 97, never once doing better than 11-7. That's a lot of suckage and a lot of baggage to turn around but I think one big dominant season will do it, if and only if the Blue Jays are out of the running.

Rich, I love your enthusiasm but I don't think we'll be selling out as early as this fall even if we are 11-1 by then. Increased attendance, yes. 27,000 -- not yet.

[Gill The Thrill]

the whole city didn't abandoned the team, but they need reasons to attend. Too much negativity. They need to win and be talked about. The players need to be talked about - A.J. needs to have more games like the first. Needs a champion, someone who will challenge the Fan 590. Compare the caliber of talent the CFL has to the very weak draft pool the NHL has if necessary - you need to shut them up. 75000 playing NCAA football 19-25 year olds - 1500 playing Major Jr. A ages 15 to 19. What league do you think would net you a higher caliber player? In fact football has as many playing football as all the other NCAA sports added together! NOW THATS A TALENT POOL. Also as many playing Usports football with 28 teams as there are playing Major Jr. A hockey with 60

The CFL also has the game itself as a marketing tool - it is fun to watch and you don't have to make your own entertainment

Also the fans need positive news, must have positive news, like the stadium is sold out, like the team made money, like the TV ratings are increasing. They are building the foundation but will have to make sure the other items are addressed.

Bell could be a major sponsor - take up the shortfall so that the team makes money. Or don't and let the team loose money and create more negativity and let the fans sit on their hands. Either way its the same amount of money for Bell.

Hockey is hockey and football is football. It's comparing apples and oranges when you talk about the development system for both, but I'm familiar with both sports. You do forget Tier 2 Jr. A hockey which is played in many more communities than Major Junior and saw a player drafted in the first round this year directly from the Alberta Junior Hockey League. Players that play in Tier 2 prefer that because it allows them to pursue an NCAA scholarship, something that cannot be pursued if you play Major Jr. Canadian hockey players also develop into pro players playing in the NCAA, so if you're suggesting they're just as many football players being developed as hockey players in the "system", you're sadly mistaken.

Very few high schools really run decent football programs anymore, but there are good summer private football programs in leagues such as the Ontario Football Conference (OFC), and the Ontario Varsity Football League (OVFL). They both run Jr and Sr football leagues for high school aged kids, and it is in these teams where football players are developed in Canada, not really in the High school system as much because they can play 10 games a season, where as you're lucky to get 6-7 games in a high school season because of scheduling, weather and possibly even insurance. High school football is still a development or feeder in the process, but with many schools having trouble filling rosters and the money involved in fielding a team, many schools have bowed out over the last 30 years and have not returned.

The Argos need to be pro-active about teaching CANADIAN FOOTBALL and trying to get kids not 25 yr olds that have already had a favourite sport for 15 yrs to be fans. They've got to get kids addicted to playing and following Canadian Football, making it their favourite sport that they'll want to follow and be a part of as fans for the rest of their lives. God bless them for their anti-bullying initiative and campaigns in schools, but if the kids in these schools they visit have no idea what or who the Argonauts are and what they play, then they are not developing fans as the empty stands indicate. They need to actually and DIRECTLY teach football, providing children with T-shirts and mini rubber footballs, or nerf footballs that kids could play with in the schoolyards instead of just the basketball and soccer balls which is all you see in most school yards now.

Your post is not wrong, but it points out to how much name recognition is a problem in this city, and it may have been inadvertent in your case, but it's interesting that you referred to (I presume) SJ Green, as AJ. AJ Green is a WR for the Cincinnati Bengals in the NFL who is also high profile player on his team.

[Argos1983]

Just an FYI Ottawa has a soccer team too, they play out of the same stadium as the Redblacks do.

Yes but in a much "lower" league with way less media clout promoting them like only MLSE can put behind TFC which makes them appear much more "major league" to people in this town, than the Ottawa Fury do to people in Ottawa - there is no comparison in the reach of those two franchises.....you can compare them to TFC II that plays out out in Vaughan but there is no comparison to what TFC draws in this marketplace in terms of eyeballs on TSN and butts in seats (25K) to the Ottawa Fury who draw about 5000 a game and who also don't have a national TV contract showing highlights of an insanely passionate crowd which draws people to want to check out the product and potentially takes away sporting entertainment dollars away from the local CFL team - I highly doubt that the Fury crowd is taking any potential new fans away from the RedBlacks crowd, my hunch is that the TFC crowd is taking potentially new fans away from the Argos crowd as a potential entertainment option......

[Argofan_1000]

Hockey is hockey and football is football. It's comparing apples and oranges when you talk about the development system for both, but I'm familiar with both sports. You do forget Tier 2 Jr. A hockey which is played in many more communities than Major Junior and saw a player drafted in the first round this year directly from the Alberta Junior Hockey League. Players that play in Tier 2 prefer that because it allows them to pursue an NCAA scholarship, something that cannot be pursued if you play Major Jr. Canadian hockey players also develop into pro players playing in the NCAA, so if you're suggesting they're just as many football players being developed as hockey players in the "system", you're sadly mistaken.

Very few high schools really run decent football programs anymore, but there are good summer private football programs in leagues such as the Ontario Football Conference (OFC), and the Ontario Varsity Football League (OVFL). They both run Jr and Sr football leagues for high school aged kids, and it is in these teams where football players are developed in Canada, not really in the High school system as much because they can play 10 games a season, where as you're lucky to get 6-7 games in a high school season because of scheduling, weather and possibly even insurance. High school football is still a development or feeder in the process, but with many schools having trouble filling rosters and the money involved in fielding a team, many schools have bowed out over the last 30 years and have not returned.

The Argos need to be pro-active about teaching CANADIAN FOOTBALL and trying to get kids not 25 yr olds that have already had a favourite sport for 15 yrs to be fans. They've got to get kids addicted to playing and following Canadian Football, making it their favourite sport that they'll want to follow and be a part of as fans for the rest of their lives. God bless them for their anti-bullying initiative and campaigns in schools, but if the kids in these schools they visit have no idea what or who the Argonauts are and what they play, then they are not developing fans as the empty stands indicate. They need to actually and DIRECTLY teach football, providing children with T-shirts and mini rubber footballs, or nerf footballs that kids could play with in the schoolyards instead of just the basketball and soccer balls which is all you see in most school yards now.

Your post is not wrong, but it points out to how much name recognition is a problem in this city, and it may have been inadvertent in your case, but it's interesting that you referred to (I presume) SJ Green, as AJ. AJ Green is a WR for the Cincinnati Bengals in the NFL who is also high profile player on his team.

Freudian Slip - sorry S.J. didn't mean to mix the names.

Seriously though, it is very hard to find that many hockey players at a level that can move up when there are 75000 playing NCAA football. also 1.1 million playing High school football in the US plus Jr. Football teams on both sides of the border, plus I am told 1000 senior football teams in Canada. Highest growth sport in N.A. - flag football. I was just trying to make a point that this is heavily weighted in footballs favour and an advocate of the league (us/TSN) need to use it when necessary.

[1971GreyCup]

Really folks, Leafs draw 18,000, Blue Jays draw up to 45,000 and TFC 24,000 fans that attend games. Some actually attend Argos games too. But really, what's with this crowded marketplace argument? We've got 9 million people that are potential fans to draw from. Winnipeg can draw +30,000 CFL fans from a market 1/10th size and they have an NHL team. This isn't a market problem or fan problem, it's a franchise problem. Montreal, Ottawa and Hamilton figured it out and rejuvenated their CFL fan bases. It's ridiculous to talk about success five years out.

"If you really want to accomplish something you find a way. If not, you find an excuse."

[Argos1983]

Really folks, Leafs draw 18,000, Blue Jays draw up to 45,000 and TFC 24,000 fans that attend games. Some actually attend Argos games too. But really, what's with this crowded marketplace argument? We've got 9 million people that are potential fans to draw from. Winnipeg can draw +30,000 CFL fans from a market 1/10th size and they have an NHL team. This isn't a market problem or fan problem, it's a franchise problem. Montreal, Ottawa and Hamilton figured it out and rejuvenated their CFL fan bases. It's ridiculous to talk about success five years out.

"If you really want to accomplish something you find a way. If not, you find an excuse."

I agree that it is absolutely a franchise problem and this five years out talk is ludicrous as they need to save their dwindling ST base now before the other half of them leave as well, and yes, all I'm hearing are excuses too (weather, long weekend, other options, more wins, etc.) -- they simply are not seen as the place to be for the average sports fan in this city - it's that simple - however there is even less impetus to go in this market when there are other sporting options to give you that "live sporting event fix" such as it were....a lot of people go to RedBlacks games because it's a "happening" not because they are necessarily CFL lovers --- if they had another place that seemed "cooler" to go to they simply may not go to the RedBlacks game anymore.....Toronto is a much more fickle market to me in terms of the "trendy" factor than a place like Ottawa or Winnipeg which still have "small town" mindsets - no one in Winnipeg thinks they live in a city that's supposed to be like "Chicago/New York" (and nor do they want to) - there is a grass roots mentality in a smaller town/city that is harder to achieve in a major metropolis and is why JR Hockey can work in London or Peterborough or Halifax or Regina, but not Toronto), compared to a Toronto where people compare themselves to a NY or Chicago more than anything else (I'm not saying that's a good thing as I lived in Halifax for a number of years and the lifestyle was very different for a sports lover - I went to Mooseheads games and loved it, as there were few other options, but do I go to many Oshawa/Mississauga games here, no not as many that's for darn sure).....

People in Toronto go to sporting events here as much to be seen (or to say they went) as for the sporting event itself, I spend most of my time at Jays games now taking other peoples pictures for them to post, and get strange looks when they see me clapping with two strikes on a hitter.....many people at Jays games could not tell you a WAR from a BABIP or who Dave Stieb or George Bell were or frankly could identify Steve Pearce in a lineup.....and don't get me started on a half empty Leafs lower bowl as people go to the games to eat sushi and say they went to a Leafs game more than to sit in their seats and cheer (again I see more pictures being taken than game being watched most of the time I'm at a Leafs game too) -- that's the market we are in, it's not the same as Winnipeg or Ottawa even with them having NHL teams too......the Toronto fan is simply a different fan....sadly we go in droves where and when it is cool to do so (Jays from 1989-1993 with a new stadium and a winning team, and August 2015-Now?) and "stop" going in droves when its not (Jays from 1995-July 2015; 2018 will see a drastic drop in attendance in my opinion if the team continues to crater this year).....even Raptors fans are getting tired as the "We The North" filling up Jurassic Park thing wasn't as cool in this years playoffs anymore, as it was a year or two ago....people have seen it and done it and they've moved onto the next phenomenon.....we are a bandwagon town for most things save for the Leafs.....

I don't disagree that there a lot of people in the GTA to attend all of these events but the overcrowded argument to me is also more about the "choices" that people are making with where to go on a Friday night, a Jays game or an Argos game, a Jays game or a TFC game, a Raptors game or watch the Leafs on TV --- a lot of these people are the same people (sports fans who like more than one sport) and can't go to "everything" - I have seasons to both TFC and the Argos for example as I want to support both franchises financially (frankly my Argos contribution is a donation to the CFL ideal more than anything else right now), but will I go to all of those games? or to 25 baseball games over the summer too? not likely, which means the tickets usually go to waste --- a Jays ticket I can give away or sell at it's value, the same for a TFC ticket (now), an Argos ticket I simply cannot give away most of the time even for free to someone who will use it......

[paulwoods13]

A large number of the people who attend Jays games think it is "cool" to do so. Same, I suspect, for a large number of people who attend TFC games. Our challenge is to convince more people that it is cool to attend an Argo game. It's a bigger challenge than those teams faced, IMO, because the NFL is perceived as cooler than the CFL by many (probably most) people in this market, and because those other two teams either play in a best-in-world league (Jays) or in a sport that is clearly on a growth trajectory in this market and in North America as a whole (TFC). Not saying it can't or won't be done, just that the challenge to have the Argos be considered "cool" is greater than it was for either of those teams (which IMO are our competition for attracting casual fans -- the Leafs are in a league of their own and the Raptors are now very firmly entrenched in the marketplace).

[Argos1983]

A large number of the people who attend Jays games think it is "cool" to do so. Same, I suspect, for a large number of people who attend TFC games. Our challenge is to convince more people that it is cool to attend an Argo game. It's a bigger challenge than those teams faced, IMO, because the NFL is perceived as cooler than the CFL by many (probably most) people in this market, and because those other two teams either play in a best-in-world league (Jays) or in a sport that is clearly on a growth trajectory in this market and in North America as a whole (TFC). Not saying it can't or won't be done, just that the challenge to have the Argos be considered "cool" is greater than it was for either of those teams (which IMO are our competition for attracting casual fans -- the Leafs are in a league of their own and the Raptors are now very firmly entrenched in the marketplace).

100% agreed --- now can anyone please tell me what we are actually doing about it to change things even incrementally for the better of our attendance numbers THIS season?! other than making excuses and saying it will take time - yes we get that, but you have to do something over that time to make it actually happen!? is anyone hearing anything from the FO that is making them feel confident?....did I miss the new "Cool" things we are attempting to engage the fans with THIS year? a Flutie Bobblehead?

[Rich]

A large number of the people who attend Jays games think it is "cool" to do so. Same, I suspect, for a large number of people who attend TFC games. Our challenge is to convince more people that it is cool to attend an Argo game. It's a bigger challenge than those teams faced, IMO, because the NFL is perceived as cooler than the CFL by many (probably most) people in this market, and because those other two teams either play in a best-in-world league (Jays) or in a sport that is clearly on a growth trajectory in this market and in North America as a whole (TFC). Not saying it can't or won't be done, just that the challenge to have the Argos be considered "cool" is greater than it was for either of those teams (which IMO are our competition for attracting casual fans -- the Leafs are in a league of their own and the Raptors are now very firmly entrenched in the marketplace).

The Argonauts will be cool when they're perceived to be consistent winners on the field.

[Argos1983]

The Argonauts will be cool when they're perceived to be consistent winners on the field.

The 1996 and 1997 two time grey cup champions at 15-3 both years and with Doug Flutie at QB says otherwise......

[Topshelf]

If the team had no plan to sell the home opener, how can we assume they'll even make an attempt at a marketing plan moving forward?
Other than slashing prices through a groupon, I think they'll just declare this a lost season, and make a stronger push next year when the Jays are in the basement.

[Topshelf]

Do the Argos have an official supporters group?
I know TFC has embraced supporters culture, and while I agree it's completely different, it would be nice to have an official seat at the table. Official numbers about how strong we are, and give some type of credibility to our feedback.

[Rich]

The 1996 and 1997 two time grey cup champions at 15-3 both years and with Doug Flutie at QB says otherwise......

it was a very different dynamic in 97. Everyone believed a Toronto NFL team was just around the corner. The CFL was on the verge of folding. The Argonauts had disinterested ownership who didn't invest an extra penny on top of Flutie's salary. People started saying what a lousy place the Skydome was for football.

It's very different now. Everyone knows the Argonauts are owned and operated by a truly professional sports organization for the first time in their history. Everyone knows the CFL is on the upswing everywhere else. Casual fans are undoubtedly being tempted by BMO Field and the tailgates, but nobody wants to go to a game if the home team will probably suck. If the Argos can establish and sustain a reputation for on-field excellence, in that beautiful stadium, I think casual fans will be jumping on the bandwagon in droves.

[matchuk]

they simply are not seen as the place to be for the average sports fan in this city - it's that simple - however there is even less impetus to go in this market when there are other sporting options to give you that "live sporting event fix" such as it were....a lot of people go to RedBlacks games because it's a "happening" not because they are necessarily CFL lovers --- if they had another place that seemed "cooler" to go to they simply may not go to the RedBlacks game anymore.....Toronto is a much more fickle market to me in terms of the "trendy" factor than a place like Ottawa or Winnipeg which still have "small town" mindsets

This makes me think of when the NHL was locked out a few years ago...Why weren't OHL games around the in and around the GTA not sold out every night? Toronto is a "hockey city"? B.S. Toronto is a Leaf city, and the majority of Leaf fans would never ever step foot into an OHL game...despite "loving" hockey so much. Unfortunately, like the Argos, Toronto could be a "football" city if only the NFL was here, right?

We all know attendance is an issue. But at the game on Friday, I still noticed people purchasing merchandise...heard and saw people cheering...I hope it is the start of something good. The groupon ticket sales looked good, hopefully a few who attended that game will decide to go to future games. A lot of good ideas on the board here, now let's hope the management is listening.

[Bosco]

Everyone knows the CFL is on the upswing everywhere else.

It isn't. BC's attendance has been problematic for a few years now. Their home opener this year only had 19,000... and that's a VERY generous number. Montreal barely cracks 20,000 and Calgary's attendance has dropped the last few years - and only got 24,000 in their home opener this year. TV ratings are down as well so far.

[C-Mag]

Here's my take on the whole situation and what can be done to improve not only attendance issues but boost the franchise as a whole.

1. The Argos need to work hand and hand with high school's in Toronto and around the GTA. Support the high school teams by having Argos players come to games/practices as well as host the OFFSA championship at BMO let the high school players use the dressing rooms field etc... The winning team gets to watch a Argos game in a private suite.
2. Host away viewing parties at bars around Toronto and the GTA for ALL away games. Have players and cheerleaders come give away tickets etc..
3. You want the entire south end to be an Argos version of a supporters section. How about you treat your die hard fans properly and price it accordingly. Make them the cheapest tickets both as season and as single game tickets.
4. Season tickets need more perks especially since you can get tickets on a game by game basis either free or for $10-$20 each on average. Jerseys, Jackets, 10% off concessions every game etc... Hold a team/gm/owner/season ticket meeting before the start of each year to talk about the state of the franchise this years expectations etc...
5. Have Pinball be incorporated into the team as much as possible. He was a generational football talent and he is a generational person.
6. Have high school kids volunteer for the team in exchange sign their community service hours as well as give them tickets to a game(s)
7. Close the entire upper deck or one game a month have a $5 or $10 ticket day in the upper deck.
8. Have a weekly podcast streamed live on youtube/instagram/facebook/twitter 30 minute segment talking about the week ahead for 15 minutes and the other 15 minutes a player Q&A
9. Have a season ticket holder referral program with rewards at certain marks 5 referral's 1 free ticket to a game of your choice 10 referral's watch pre-game practice on the field 15 referral's you get a game worn jersey 20 referral's you get a private suite for one game this season etc.... Also have a single game ticket purchase program for season ticket holders if they hit a certain amount per game 2 extra or whatever then they get free parking or free concession coupons etc...
10. Have free coach buses to and from Hamilton for Labor Day for season ticket holders.

[C-Mag]

One more thing. Make the entire upper deck throughout the stadium designated as low income family seating. Base pricing on a percentage of family income. This will keep kids and families out of trouble, expand the argos brand as well as the cfl brand in general.