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  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Argos1983 View Post
    Yay!! Ideas!!.....apparently various theme nights is a thing that was supposed to be part of this year -- does anyone know anything planned beyond July 24th? any targeted marketing towards different groups for certain future games? and if so, why is this not being widely publicized? The image to me that this is a bare bones operation in terms of marketing has not changed since June 1st when the push really should have started for single game ticket sales frankly.....
    How is it bare bones when they're running TV, Radio, Print and Online advertising?

    They seem to have cut back from last year's advertising budget but last year's budget was huge and a Grey Cup year so I wouldn't expect them to maintain that, especially since it doesn't have seem to have been particularly successful.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Argos1983 View Post
    Your definition of "fail" is different than mine ---- did Rocket Ismail put butts in the seats short term? (we are nowhere near averaging even close to 20,000 people a game at this point, this is desperation time my friend) --- yes he did and they won a title too
    Here are the numbers:
    1990 28,815
    1991 36,304 (35% increase)
    1992 26,132 (lower than two years earlier when the team did NO marketing)

    So yes, I'd have to consider that a failure. The team lost tons of money both years (and not coincidentally paid tons of money to one player). If we overspent right now for a big-name NFL star, would attendance increase by 35%? And if it did, would it last more than one season? I want long-term, sustainable growth, not quick fixes that bring a little buzz for a few weeks or months, then get looked at by the public at large as yet another failure.

    Quote Originally Posted by Argos1983 View Post
    there are NO long term solutions right now in this market period - they need to get butts in seats now before the perception becomes even worse that this thing is simply a lost cause of a bygone era.
    In that case, we may as well just throw in the towel. I don't believe it can't be fixed. I believe it can, and it's going to take years, not weeks. How? I don't know. But they could start by lowering ticket prices and doing some of the other good ideas that have been thrown out on this forum.

    I appreciate your kind words about my book.
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  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neely2005 View Post
    How is it bare bones when they're running TV, Radio, Print and Online advertising?

    They seem to have cut back from last year's advertising budget but last year's budget was huge and a Grey Cup year so I wouldn't expect them to maintain that, especially since it doesn't have seem to have been particularly successful.
    I guess I haven't seen much of it yet.....any ads targeting the suburbs people can point to? anything special being promoted outside of a bobblehead to make people want to go to games who don't normally go to games? I haven't seen much on TV either (not saying its not there, just that I haven't seen much of it) -- the point is is there anything creative being attempted that people are aware of?

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    When I talk to sports fans about why they don't attend Argonauts games it almost always comes down to one of two things.

    1. They consider it minor league. This one can usually be overcome with polite discussion and pointing out that it's a different game from the NFL and it requires a different skill set. When you explain the Motion, the Yard off the ball and the bigger field etc. then they usually can see that a different type of player is required.

    2. They don't want to fight traffic when they can watch from home. Unfortunately more of our fanbase seems to live outside of the 416 than with the other Toronto teams.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Neely2005 View Post
    2. They don't want to fight traffic when they can watch from home. Unfortunately more of our fanbase seems to live outside of the 416 than with the other Toronto teams.
    Someone mentioned 200k are watching in and around the GTA. People are out there but obviously don't want to come for whatever reason.

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by paulwoods13 View Post
    Here are the numbers:
    1990 28,815
    1991 36,304 (35% increase)
    1992 26,132 (lower than two years earlier when the team did NO marketing)

    So yes, I'd have to consider that a failure. The team lost tons of money both years (and not coincidentally paid tons of money to one player). If we overspent right now for a big-name NFL star, would attendance increase by 35%? And if it did, would it last more than one season? I want long-term, sustainable growth, not quick fixes that bring a little buzz for a few weeks or months, then get looked at by the public at large as yet another failure.



    In that case, we may as well just throw in the towel. I don't believe it can't be fixed. I believe it can, and it's going to take years, not weeks. How? I don't know. But they could start by lowering ticket prices and doing some of the other good ideas that have been thrown out on this forum.

    I appreciate your kind words about my book.
    No worries -- this is all just friendly debate, we all want the same thing here a successful franchise with a strong season ticket base of committed fans --- and again, the "Bouncing Back" book is awesome , looking forward to the 1991 one where you will inevitably discuss the excitement behind Hollywood North and the buzz it generated....my hunch is you wouldn't be writing a book about an era that was boring so I guess creating a little buzz has its merits......ha ha ha......

    Again, back to the debate, I know the attendance numbers I looked them up too, right now I would love 25-30K in the stadium (artificially induced with a star or not) and then a dip to 20K after a failed "star" marketing ploy as opposed to 12K and falling (as STH numbers I am sure are not going up next year unless you give the tickets away at ridiculous prices (I am sure ST prices will get reduced) which is just a kinder way of papering the place!) sometimes you have to "goose the numbers" with a little pizazz and maybe just maybe some of those folks might stay afterwards (again this is a year to year marketing plan that has to be reinvented constantly in this day and age -- ask the Jays next year about having to re-market themselves when ticket sales inevitably go down when the "buzz" leaves this group after a failed season -- they don't have a 10 year model to boost attendance slowly over time as too much changes in the marketplace over that period, the Jays are running a 1 or 2 year model for ticket sales based on team success/failure/"buzz" which changes all the time, literally daily (!) - dynamic pricing anyone?!), and anyone thinking that running this team in this town is going to be a profit making enterprise is foolhardy (we are simply "media content" at this point to any owner) unless an owner simply does no spending and enjoys the TV and Grey Cup money - oh, I guess that was the most recent model to make a profit here ("thanks" Braley!), this is a Bob Young salvage operation in this market frankly and is basically requiring a person who wants to prop up the Argos as some sort of civic duty --- I have yet to see anyone show me a realistic long term sustainable growth plan for this team in this city (lots of really smart business people have tried - and they all failed, maybe that is telling us something) - every ownership here thinks they can reinvent the wheel in terms of Argos interest here and they simply cannot do it - the only things that have moved the needle are short term blips of excitement when a "buzz" surrounds the team - the Toronto sports market is very unique and very fickle (save for Leafs fans) and getting more and more fragmented as attention spans are getting shorter and shorter, and thinking that a long term 25K consistent Argos fanbase is going to magically appear in the next 3-5 years when we've done nothing to attract the next generation of fans is beyond silly to me, the only people that truly care about the product in this town are slowly dwindling away and nothing has been done to replace them with fans who are 20-30 years our junior --- heck I'd be thrilled with 28K or 36K or a failed 26K --- we are nowhere near those numbers right now.....as you yourself indicated - you don't know how to fix it save for lowering prices - I don't think that a $199 ST is an outrageous number frankly and we could not even sell those ST out at that price point (you could get 15 tickets this year for $199 which is $13.27 a seat - how much lower do we need to go?!) and many people gave those $199 seats up after last year (we can't even sell out maybe a thousand season seats at that price point, if I now magically advertised Argos tickets at $20 now do you honestly believe that moves the needle to 25K consistently or anything close? frankly I doubt it highly.....people need to be motivated to go and price is only one factor, the "need to be there" factor is a key thing in this town (its the sad reality of this "trendy" market) and people will pay lots of money (and brave the traffic, and pay for parking etc.) if they feel the product is highly desirable, if not, the price point won't sway the average person as much as you think, HDTV in our living rooms are really comfortable for most people; most are motivated to go to a sporting event to be a part of something, an "event" a "happening", watching most sports is way better at home frankly, especially football in my opinion, if you can't make it the "place to be", why go? is what most people seem to be saying ---- this is entertainment after all, people want to be entertained, and in this market as 96/97 showed us simply winning isn't even enough to do it......we came up with some modified version of tailgating last year (nice idea I give them that), ok, now what are we doing, as that idea didn't generate a big uptick in butts in seats apparently?

    I'll even try it your way, no big name star signing --ok then, what, if any new marketing ideas THIS YEAR that are being attempted to generate interest? please enlighten me what we are doing to make those numbers go upwards for a sustainable model this year? I've thrown out ideas like a Bear toss, various autograph signings of Alumni or other interesting sports figures (probably a lot cheaper than paying for a Manziel (who I have no interest in personally) to get someone for an autograph signing), someone here said a Women's night although the league wide "pink game" for breast cancer likely covers this initiative I'm sure, kids cheaper or free tickets etc., --- what are the Argos specifically doing that is unique and exciting this year to generate interest? I just don't see it frankly --- I'd rather at least see some failed attempts than no attempts at all - be creative for goodness sake, try something different, or simply just try at all!!!

    I just want some ideas being attempted here Paul, and frankly I see very little to try to move the needle here these days --- it's just shrug our shoulders and say generic things like it will take time and its not going to happen right away. OK, how about trying to get an uptick of 500-1000 more people on average at the games this year ----try stuff!! --- even if my "star" model is unfounded (which as a short term solution I don't think it is), and I acknowledged many times that it is NOT a long term solution -- but at this point long term is the next 7 home games these days -or are we just giving up for another year in terms of building a fanbase?

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by ArgoGabe22 View Post
    Someone mentioned 200k are watching in and around the GTA. People are out there but obviously don't want to come for whatever reason.
    Yeah but the good news is that every single person that we've ever brought to an Argonauts game enjoyed themselves and would go again. Even when the games were at the Rogers Centre. Many have also commented that they enjoyed it more than going to a Blue Jays game. So I think over time we can slowly build the attendance back up.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Neely2005 View Post
    When I talk to sports fans about why they don't attend Argonauts games it almost always comes down to one of two things.

    1. They consider it minor league. This one can usually be overcome with polite discussion and pointing out that it's a different game from the NFL and it requires a different skill set. When you explain the Motion, the Yard off the ball and the bigger field etc. then they usually can see that a different type of player is required.

    2. They don't want to fight traffic when they can watch from home. Unfortunately more of our fanbase seems to live outside of the 416 than with the other Toronto teams.
    Quick response --- you raise two good points - I will use TFC as a comparison as I think it is the best comparison in terms of stadium location (same) and minor league mentality (same).....

    1) I agree with the first point about having to explain the game being problematic and not easy for newcomers to understand sometimes, although TFC has a huge advantage here as even though it is also perceived as minor league it is a sport that almost everyone understands (its played the "same way" as in other countries, and simply just played in way more countries) and is frankly a much more "global" game that attracts lots of interest from people of all different types of backgrounds in this city.....unfortunately CFL style football (or even US Style NFL football) doesn't share a similar sporting pedigree around the world like soccer obviously does, so greater efforts have to be made here to educate the public on our unique brand of football (or football period)....

    2) As for point number two --- the stadium was pretty full for a soccer game on a Tuesday night this past week, and lots of TFC fans are 905ers too -- the point is that while traffic is a huge problem, it can (and will) be overcome by fans if people perceive this as an "event" that must be attended, if its "the place to be", and that they need to be in that stadium and not on their couch....most events are a pain in the ass in this city to get to for most of us outside the downtown core, and people still manage to attend if the perceived value and buzz is there (I am a STH of both teams and hauled my ass down on Tuesday and was rewarded with an awesome game that was filled with excitement (and any newcomer to that product would of course go back again), and not on Friday for this very reason (where any newcomer would look around and say why bother coming back?) - sorry if that is blasphemy on these boards), as I said before, people need to be motivated to get off their ass in this day and age and the Argos simply aren't creating enough motivation for most to do so, and if I am a sporting fan of multiple teams in this market like many CFL fans are (Jays, TFC, Argos, Leafs, Raptors etc.) are the Argos going to be the one most people leave behind these days if having to make a choice based on the amount of time people will want to traverse the city, and available dollars spent on entertainment, my guess is yes...........time to try some new ideas......

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    The Argos can speak for themselves as to what they are doing. IMO the current situation is not remotely comparable to 1991, or 1971 for that matter. There is no big name that would move the needle. Manziel might attract some curiosity for a few wks but it's absurd to believe we would play him over a Hall of Fame qb. And we don't have the right to negotiate with him even if we wanted to. Beyond him, there is no one who would grab enough attention to fill that stadium at this time.
    Year of the Rocket: John Candy, Wayne Gretzky, a Crooked Tycoon, and the Craziest Season in Football History (https://sutherlandhousebooks.com/pro...of-the-rocket/)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Argos1983 View Post
    Quick response --- you raise two good points - I will use TFC as a comparison as I think it is the best comparison in terms of stadium location (same) and minor league mentality (same).....

    1) I agree with the first point about having to explain the game being problematic and not easy for newcomers to understand sometimes, although TFC has a huge advantage here as even though it is also perceived as minor league it is a sport that almost everyone understands (its played the "same way" as in other countries, and simply just played in way more countries) and is frankly a much more "global" game that attracts lots of interest from people of all different types of backgrounds in this city.....unfortunately CFL style football (or even US Style NFL football) doesn't share a similar sporting pedigree around the world like soccer obviously does, so greater efforts have to be made here to educate the public on our unique brand of football (or football period)....

    2) As for point number two --- the stadium was pretty full for a soccer game on a Tuesday night this past week, and lots of TFC fans are 905ers too -- the point is that while traffic is a huge problem, it can (and will) be overcome by fans if people perceive this as an "event" that must be attended, if its "the place to be", and that they need to be in that stadium and not on their couch....most events are a pain in the ass in this city to get to for most of us outside the downtown core, and people still manage to attend if the perceived value and buzz is there (I am a STH of both teams and hauled my ass down on Tuesday and was rewarded with an awesome game that was filled with excitement (and any newcomer to that product would of course go back again), and not on Friday for this very reason (where any newcomer would look around and say why bother coming back?) - sorry if that is blasphemy on these boards), as I said before, people need to be motivated to get off their ass in this day and age and the Argos simply aren't creating enough motivation for most to do so, and if I am a sporting fan of multiple teams in this market like many CFL fans are (Jays, TFC, Argos, Leafs, Raptors etc.) are the Argos going to be the one most people leave behind these days if having to make a choice based on the amount of time people will want to traverse the city, and available dollars spent on entertainment, my guess is yes...........time to try some new ideas......
    The difference is that the higher levels of soccer aren't played just across the boarder with many games available on TV in the same time zone like the NFL is.

    My point is that the other teams have a higher percentage of their fans living in the 416 than the Argonauts do. And on top of that they also have a bigger fanbase so they have more to draw from in the 416 than we do.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Neely2005 View Post
    The difference is that the higher levels of soccer aren't played just across the boarder with many games available on TV in the same time zone like the NFL is.

    My point is that the other teams have a higher percentage of their fans living in the 416 than the Argonauts do. And on top of that they also have a bigger fanbase so they have more to draw from in the 416 than we do.
    That's a good point Neely, the other thing is most of the MLS teams are American which to many means a "major" league.
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    Quote Originally Posted by paulwoods13 View Post
    The Argos can speak for themselves as to what they are doing. IMO the current situation is not remotely comparable to 1991, or 1971 for that matter. There is no big name that would move the needle. Manziel might attract some curiosity for a few wks but it's absurd to believe we would play him over a Hall of Fame qb. And we don't have the right to negotiate with him even if we wanted to. Beyond him, there is no one who would grab enough attention to fill that stadium at this time.
    I wasn't putting it on you Paul, I know that's not your job - yours is to regale us with stories of their history in an entertaining fashion --- I was just saying that any new ideas would be welcome, even without a star signing (frankly I don't want Manziel either)....I was just trying to push the envelope with the debate a bit.....how about starting a Canadian QB at some point in our near future (ha ha ha)....or is that another debate for another day.....I swear I'm just kidding.....

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    Quote Originally Posted by Argo57 View Post
    That's a good point Neely, the other thing is most of the MLS teams are American which to many means a "major" league.
    Agreed - good point on the US teams participation (in cities like NY/Chicago/LA) which improves the perception making it appear more "major league" to the average fan -- not sure if there are necessarily more fans in the 416 for all of the other teams.....I don't have those numbers in front of me.....anecdotally I know of lots of TFC fans (and Leafs and Raptors) who are outside of the 416 (in fact most of them don't live within the traditional city confines), but again I have no hard data either way.....

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    Quote Originally Posted by Argos1983 View Post
    Yay!! Ideas!!.....apparently various theme nights is a thing that was supposed to be part of this year -- does anyone know anything planned beyond July 24th? any targeted marketing towards different groups for certain future games? and if so, why is this not being widely publicized? The image to me that this is a bare bones operation in terms of marketing has not changed since June 1st when the push really should have started for single game ticket sales frankly.....
    Forth of July Weekend for our American Friends
    2 tickets to the Argos + tailgating + overnight stay in Toronto + breakfast. Come and see your NCAA players in action during American Day at BMO - Targeted to Detroit, Buffalo, and Cleveland and any other American on July 4th weekend. Total Cost $280 CDN - $150 HOTEL - $80 GAME - Tailgate fee - $20 - Breakfast $30 approx. $200 US
    I like it!

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    The only way to fill BMO at this time is a halftime show by Drake.
    As everyone has said, Toronto is an event town.
    Argos are not perceived as an event anymore.
    TFC had a huge advantage in the Beckham signed with MLS, seasons tix immediately sold out, the media embraced the atmosphere at BMO. The team rode that for marketing for years, until the past three seasons when there was actually an exciting product in the field.
    For a time, you couldn't give tfc tix away. Team went back to year one pricing, the haters loved to remind everyone that one of tfc own players said they were "the worst team in the world"
    Argos need a positive image to begin with. Why is it that MLSE allows a no argos at bmo sign to fly at every tfc game? How many tfc fans have been told to hate the argos as a result?
    This is going to take a long time to fix. But to begin we need a big personality on this team to build some interest. Every jolt of Argos excitement has begun with a big signing,

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    Quote Originally Posted by Argofan_1000 View Post
    Forth of July Weekend for our American Friends
    2 tickets to the Argos + tailgating + overnight stay in Toronto + breakfast. Come and see your NCAA players in action during American Day at BMO - Targeted to Detroit, Buffalo, and Cleveland and any other American on July 4th weekend. Total Cost $280 CDN - $150 HOTEL - $80 GAME - Tailgate fee - $20 - Breakfast $30 approx. $200 US
    I like it!
    Nice --- and creative!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Topshelf View Post
    As everyone has said, Toronto is an event town.
    Argos are not perceived as an event anymore.
    But to begin we need a big personality on this team to build some interest. Every jolt of Argos excitement has begun with a big signing,
    I could not agree more ---- if you are not "the place to be" in this city then you will eventually languish in obscurity especially if you are perceived as "minor league" (we are an "event" town - even a major league team will be affected --- watch the Jays cease to be an "event" next April and May all of a sudden as people leave the bandwagon - I'm predicting a solid 400,000+ overall ticket drop (5000 a game maybe, next season if they are average team again (and going down if the losing continues) -- look at our attendance in April - July 2015 and then the huge upswing in August-September 2015 until now --- lots of evidence to show there were only about 25000 die hard Jays fans going to games from 1995-2014 and sadly I was one of them at what I like to call "choose your own row night" at the ballpark), unfortunately this idea of the sports "purity" of the CFL selling itself is just not happening in the Toronto marketplace, people here need to be "Wowed" - again, I wish it was not so as I love this game, but facts are facts, there is no latent 25,000 base of fans that just love the CFL enough to show up regularly at BMO anymore unless you give them a reason to do so and the football alone isn't it I'm afraid.....the Toronto Rock won lots of championships in their first 10 years and had some really nice attendance numbers, and now they languish in obscurity in front of a few thousand diehards - they went from about 17,000 to 10,000 from 2005 to 2010 and even a championship in 2011 only took them back to about 11,000 and now they sit in the 9500 range and drawing 6200 and 7300 to playoff games this year....it has become a niche sport for diehards only.....now obviously the CFL has a huge TV contract and much more exposure in the media (although some would say not so much on these boards), but the notion that neither one of these sporting events is "the place to be", and anything beyond a "novelty" to most (especially to the under 35 crowd), is there for both of these franchises....a lot of "who are these guys", and "what are the rules again?", and "why should I care about a 8-10 team league"?

    Remember this is not about us on these boards who are I would assume to be the most ardent of CFL and Argos supporters, and I love the passion I see on these boards for this game and if I appear to be beating a dead horse here (sorry), its only because I actually care about this thing succeeding at some point beyond just the niche audience -- there aren't enough of us type of fans (diehards and likely over 40/50 years old) to fill the building, so now you need to reach out to a much different audience who needs to be catered to differently....I guarantee if the Argos take a huge upswing in attendance it will be because a "splash" of some kind has been made, and maybe one needs a splash to be made constantly for a few years to get this patient back off of life support (and it will cost money, as I said we need an owner who is willing to lose money here (this is a charity job at this point if you want it to work), and no it's not the way most of us would like this to happen (ie. organically), but they need some jolts and some jolts and some more jolts to get this thing going again before maybe you can have an established core of fans near where it needs to be (15-20K STH)......but until then in this market they are an afterthought to the average fan under 35 who sees them as a curiosity (if thought of at all) more than anything, especially once the NFL season kicks off in September....

    Someone mentioned earlier about the majority of fans not being from the 416 as being an issue (not sure if that's true but let's say it is) -- if that is the case why is there not targeted marketing, meet and greets all over the 905 (519) on a regular basis (on every homestand in multiple locations throughout the GTA players should be sent out to various restaurants (dave and busters with a bag of tokens and pizza at 400/7, Mississauga, Brampton, Ajax, Oshawa etc.?) for Meet and Greets, free pizza and video games with an Argo/Cheerleader) - go to where your fans live and say hello if it's not the 416, make a connection, more than once a season in June on Fan Day or after the game at BMO/Liberty Village as the fans you are chasing aren't there at the moment they are still at home watching on TV if at all (Ok we got one fan day --- this has to be constant throughout the season, at this stage, for this team) --- some may not believe this but I remember a time when my Dad had a store in 1992-1993 and we had Jack Morris, a 20 Game winning, World Series MVP award winning pitcher (sorry Jays fans but he's still a Tiger to me and frankly sucked for the Jays despite winning 21 games) come to us in Thornhill (sent for and paid by the team) to sign autographs for a few hours and other Jays were sent all over GTA as well -- I mean he was north of Steeles and everything (OMG?!), he made it all the way up there (ha ha ha), and this was during the season, and the Jays were a WS championship team selling out SKYDOME for every game and surely didn't need to market themselves at that point....and believe me Jack Morris was not known as Mr. Warm and Friendly as most of you who remember him....ha ha ha.....


    I like the 4th of July idea, the digital "oar" idea someone had earlier, why am I feeling we are more innovative then the team we are rooting for....that's what frightens me.....
    Last edited by Argos1983; 07-05-2017 at 12:14 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Neely2005 View Post
    1. They consider it minor league. This one can usually be overcome with polite discussion and pointing out that it's a different game from the NFL and it requires a different skill set. When you explain the Motion, the Yard off the ball and the bigger field etc. then they usually can see that a different type of player is required.
    This is mostly it. And yes the argument can be made, validly, that it is a different game. But in reality, especially to the layfan, its the same game. And why wouldn't they assume so? The CFL gets the vast majority of its starting players from a system that plays the same game as the NFL. It gets the overwhelming majority of its coaches and GMs from the same system. If a player excels in the CFL to a great enough degree, the NFL will come and snatch them away. So tell me, how much of the game is really different?

    My solution which I've proposed here before, is to make the game MORE different. I know, how can you do that?? Ok lets first think about why being MORE different than the NFL has upsides. First, think of it this way. Basketball in the US may be more popular than hockey in the US, but is the NHL considered a minor league to the NBA? Not at all because hockey has drastically different rules than basketball. Therefore, the NHL has no reason to compete with the NBA for players. No one ever says well, he's only playing in the NHL because he couldn't make the NBA. Even if the fan loves the NBA more than the NHL he still recognized that the players playing in the NHL are the elite of that sport. Secondly, to keep the same example, you never have to worry that your favorite NHL star may suddenly jump to the NBA, for more money and prominence. The hockey star plays in the NHL, because he is a hockey player, not a basketball player. Third, no fan confuses an NBA game with an NHL game. Furthermore and closer to the point, no fan confuses a Rugby game with an NFL game, although the 2 sports have similarities. Fans can discuss and debate whether Gridiron football is better or worse than Rugby, but many fans will agree that the elite of either form of football are enjoyable to watch (and some true fans of gridiron will appreciate whats great about Canadian or American football, but the casual fan won't see it), just like a fan can be a fan of hockey and basketball, and understand that both sports have different athletic requirements that make both sports enjoyable, but different.

    So how do you make the game different? Well lets start out by pointing out that if you were to look 100 years ago, the Canadian game of "Rugby football" was vastly different than the American game of football, relatively speaking. Canadian football much more closely resembled rugby, while American football much more closely resembled the football we know today. Basically that means, that football wasn't always football as we know it today. As time went on, Canadian football started to change towards the form of American football. This was mainly due to first the importation of American players who could adapt to the Canadian game, especially after the adaptation to the forward pass, and then American coaches and GMs, who pushed for rules that were more familiar to them, and to the players they started to recruit from American colleges. So what we ended up with, was a Canadian version of American football. Sure the games are different, but to the casual fan, they are nearly the same, and to many graduating US collegiate football players, a place to play their brand of football, with a twist. Hence the problem we have today. So how to make it different? That's the hard part.

    Whatever changes that would be made would have to be made slowly, at the risk of alienating fans that have grown up loving this form of football, that is very similar to American football. I suppose making the game a hybrid form of gridiron/rugby. I've suggested that one of the draws of early Canadian football even to American observers was the amount of lateral passing. Perhaps integrate that with MORE forward passing. Why does there need to be only ONE forward pass? Perhaps out of bounds can be a throw in, that would drastically change the game. Does every DOWN need to be a complete scrimmage? That would increase the flow of the game. I don't know to be honest. My point is, if you want Canadian football and its professional game to be considered NOT MINOR LEAGUE, perhaps it needs to appear different from the biggest league in the world. It needs to be the MAJOR LEAGUE of its sport, much like the AFL is the MAJOR LEAGUE of Australian football.

    I know I'll get a lot of flack for this post, but truly I believe, if you want to get rid of the minor league stigma, then you have to change the game. (also I left out a lot of my points.) Ok laugh on, and I know it will never happen, but if it could it I believe it would be a solution.

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    Article in the Ottawa Sun from yesterday talking about the renaissance of interest in the football team over the last few years:

    http://www.ottawasun.com/2017/07/04/...edblacks-fever

    The main thrust of the article talks about the 25000 seat sellouts that Ottawa is enjoying as being a product of a few things --- the bars/restaurants/stores/gym and such surrounding the new stadium creating it as a "place to be" --- hard to replicate that with a stadium like BMO that is not really immediately next to anything until one leaves the Ex Grounds....I guess tailgating is our attempt at this....a noble attempt, but it does not seem to be working too well frankly in terms of increasing attendance numbers.....

    The other main point of the article was talking about the diversity of age and gender of the crowd (they have an annual Women's Night the article states, as someone here had also suggested) --- and the need to market to new and younger fans --- and that it mostly comes down to the atmosphere and vibe around the stadium which makes the experience - and that the younger fans don't just want to sit and watch a game for three hours they want to interact, drink etc. (I think the Tiger Cats are also trying some type of admission where you can stand on a patio and move around the stadium etc.) ---- maybe the North-End patio (beer garden) idea at BMO is not such a bad thought....but the key was the atmosphere and vibe and about making it the fun place to be --- now again, Ottawa has two huge advantages over the Argos in this regard -- no Blue Jays as a sports entertainment option in the summer which is drawing a lot of the younger crowd away from BMO potentially, and also no TFC who is doing the atmosphere and vibe thing better in the Argos very own stadium already.....the Argos have a very difficult nut to crack as they have a much different market than Ottawa (with more competition for the sports entertainment $) and even the good ideas from there won't necessarily transfer here and work as well......

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    If the Blue Jays are out of the race by the end of the summer, and the Argos go something like 8-4, we will be selling BMO out by the fall. Casual fans are drawn by winning teams, and the Argos haven't had a "winning" team in 20 years. Sure we fluked a couple of Cups, but we've sucked every regular season since 97, never once doing better than 11-7. That's a lot of suckage and a lot of baggage to turn around but I think one big dominant season will do it, if and only if the Blue Jays are out of the running.

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