GAME THREAD / Week 11 / Toronto @ Hamilton

[paulwoods13]

My take:

The only really major problem we have -- but it is REALLY major (and perpetual, it seems) -- is the o-line. This is also the most difficult problem to solve, especially since four starters are NATs. We could (and arguably should) try a second INT to replace Fuller in the lineup, but I'm not convinced we have any INT o-linemen better than our current starters. The Wk 1 starter at LT got benched a few games into the season, so he's likely not the answer. Neither are other teams' castoffs like Washington and Fulton. They were released for a reason, and as vets they would likely expect significant money. Popp needs to find a gem or two from among the dozens of o-linemen who just got released down south. And we need to think seriously about going young on the line next season, altho I'm not sure this market could bear a year where our kids learn on the job. I think McEwan and J Campbell are building blocks, hopefully Woods is as well and maybe Sackey and/or Kolankowski will develop. But we need to draft o-line as a priority, and target the FA market.

Fuller's continuing inability to catch contested balls makes him a liability, regardless of what he brings as a blocker and route runner. He doesn't get targeted that often but when he does there's worse than a 50/50 chance he comes up with the ball.

I can't believe some folks are ready to dump Martese Jackson. Yes, he fumbled -- that happens at times to even the best players. He also had a TD return called back, for the second time this season. Anyone who can take it to the end zone multiple times in a season deserves to keep being sent back there. For the record I agreed with his decision to bring the missed FG out of the end zone late in the game. I just don't see any percentage in allowing an opponent to get within a FG of tying.

Our defence continues to look pretty strong, especially considering all the injuries. With Lemon out and Bishop in, we are back down to one of our starting front four. Our depth has been sorely tested there, especially with three NATs on the shelf. It looked to me like when Gaydosh came out for a rest, we had to use Webster in the secondary. Not sure who he replaced but I'm guessing Plummer went out and one of the DBs moved up to OLB.

Our secondary depth is poor. We were able to replace Mitchell OK but the loss of Owusu-Ansah and Sears has left us scrambling back there.

In the other thread, some posters are complaining that Wilder is a waste of a roster position. He is dressed for two reasons, IMO: he is the only viable backup we have for Whitaker, and he contributes on special teams. If he sits, does anyone think Jackson could take over from Whitaker as a blocking back in the event of an injury to BW? I don't.

[paulwoods13]

I'm beginning to think Ricky has lost something. His longest pass in that game was 24 yards. As in the past three seasons, passes of two and three yards are never going to get you anywhere. I absolutely hate watching those two yard passes.

He has no time to throw, even against a weak defence like Hamilton's. You need more time than he has for guys to get open downfield. Especially since most of our guys aren't speed burners. I remember one play where Ricky evaded the rush and had lots of time to throw -- and still couldn't find anyone open. Give him Calgary's o-line and receivers and he would shred it. We're also really missing Coombs out there. Ralph is just a shadow of Coombs at this point.

[AngeloV]

A significant part of the loss can be put on special teams:

- Lirim 2 missed FG's
- Costly holding penalty on Jackson punt return TD
- Jackson not conceding single
- Lirim punt that led to Ticats winning score

I'll add 3 holding penalties on the first 3 offensive possessions putting them in 1st and 20 situations. Not exactly a good way to get off to a fast start.

[Jon Gonzo]

Penalties, injuries (Coombs 2nd down possession receiver with Yac) and Ricky can't seem to throw the ball downfield right now. The shoulder he landed on, was his throwing shoulder. It apparently has been weakened, and I think everyone knows it. Early in the season, he was stretching the field with success. Not so since the injury.

8 wins and a shot at the playoffs is still a good season to me (this year).

[Jon Gonzo]

Indeed, it was an infuriating performance. I don't know how the Professor doesn't snap. Penalty issues go way back with this team. Milo struggled with it too.

[Footballdude]

Funny, a guy from work just commented that he read no one was at the game in Hamilton, asked where did he read or hear that. Said Steve Simmons Story. So i read it and told him Simmons was talking about the crowd after the rain delay, true for a casual fan, his story was not clear, but then he pointed to Bruce Aurther? who also stated the stands were only 2/3 full at the start of the game. Just perception, but again this is why casual fans always think the CFL is in trouble and no one goes. I never read a Leaf story that starts with the stands were not full at the start of the game, which they never are!!!

[Shatto]

An excellent analysis of the team and yesterday's game by Paul. With the greatest respect, the only aspect of Paul's comments where I disagree, is the value of Wilder to the team. Even if Whitaker were to go down during a game, Wilder has demonstrated little ability to become an every down RB. As far as blocking, Cross appears to be an excellent blocker and Jackson could come in as an H back, replacing Coombs in both running the ball from that position and also as a receiver. My major concern is the waste of an International for special teams and the very occasional use as a RB. The allocation could much better utilized either on the OL or as a DB.

With NFL cuts becoming available, hopefully Popp and the team's scouts will come up with either a more explosive RB to replace Wilder or an OL player as the team desperately needs assistance in this area.

As mentioned earlier, Fuller was played as a TE, on one or two occasions, I assume because of his size, blocking skills and the potential to split out from the position to receive the ball. Surely, this is a position that Jones could fill and as National. help out with the ratio issue.

[Neely2005]

Yes, the Argos made enough errors to cost themselves the game tonight. But that one blown call on Masoli's fumble in the 4th quarter was an absolute game-changer. We have replay in this league for one reason and one reason only and that it to get obvious blown calls like that one correct. On what freaking planet was Masoli's arm in throwing motion on that play? That one play changed the course of the final half of the 4th quarter. I haven't been this ticked off about the officiating in a long time.

My thoughts exactly. That blown call has really shaken my belief in the league. Why should I continue to invest my time, energy and money when the refs and command centre continually get it wrong?

[paulwoods13]

Funny, a guy from work just commented that he read no one was at the game in Hamilton, asked where did he read or hear that. Said Steve Simmons Story. So i read it and told him Simmons was talking about the crowd after the rain delay, true for a casual fan, his story was not clear, but then he pointed to Bruce Aurther? who also stated the stands were only 2/3 full at the start of the game. Just perception, but again this is why casual fans always think the CFL is in trouble and no one goes. I never read a Leaf story that starts with the stands were not full at the start of the game, which they never are!!!

But if you watched the game on TV, it was apparent at the start that the stands had tons of empty seats. That never used to happen at THF, so it is newsworthy. The Ticats apparently have offered everyone who bought tickets to yesterday's game two tickets to another game this season. Since 23k+plus tickets were reportedly sold, that presumably means they are prepared to give away close to 48,000 tix over the last four or five home games. That certainly tells a different story than the narrative that THF has basically been sold out since it opened.

[Neely2005]

My take:

The only really major problem we have -- but it is REALLY major (and perpetual, it seems) -- is the o-line. This is also the most difficult problem to solve, especially since four starters are NATs. We could (and arguably should) try a second INT to replace Fuller in the lineup, but I'm not convinced we have any INT o-linemen better than our current starters. The Wk 1 starter at LT got benched a few games into the season, so he's likely not the answer. Neither are other teams' castoffs like Washington and Fulton. They were released for a reason, and as vets they would likely expect significant money. Popp needs to find a gem or two from among the dozens of o-linemen who just got released down south. And we need to think seriously about going young on the line next season, altho I'm not sure this market could bear a year where our kids learn on the job. I think McEwan and J Campbell are building blocks, hopefully Woods is as well and maybe Sackey and/or Kolankowski will develop. But we need to draft o-line as a priority, and target the FA market.

Fuller's continuing inability to catch contested balls makes him a liability, regardless of what he brings as a blocker and route runner. He doesn't get targeted that often but when he does there's worse than a 50/50 chance he comes up with the ball.

I can't believe some folks are ready to dump Martese Jackson. Yes, he fumbled -- that happens at times to even the best players. He also had a TD return called back, for the second time this season. Anyone who can take it to the end zone multiple times in a season deserves to keep being sent back there. For the record I agreed with his decision to bring the missed FG out of the end zone late in the game. I just don't see any percentage in allowing an opponent to get within a FG of tying.

Our defence continues to look pretty strong, especially considering all the injuries. With Lemon out and Bishop in, we are back down to one of our starting front four. Our depth has been sorely tested there, especially with three NATs on the shelf. It looked to me like when Gaydosh came out for a rest, we had to use Webster in the secondary. Not sure who he replaced but I'm guessing Plummer went out and one of the DBs moved up to OLB.

Our secondary depth is poor. We were able to replace Mitchell OK but the loss of Owusu-Ansah and Sears has left us scrambling back there.

In the other thread, some posters are complaining that Wilder is a waste of a roster position. He is dressed for two reasons, IMO: he is the only viable backup we have for Whitaker, and he contributes on special teams. If he sits, does anyone think Jackson could take over from Whitaker as a blocking back in the event of an injury to BW? I don't.

Well said Paul. I'd also add Penalties though. Year after year after year penalties have been an issue.

[paulwoods13]

Well said Paul. I'd also add Penalties though. Year after year after year penalties have been an issue.

Yes indeed, and that is one thing I expected Trestman to clean up this season. We've had a lot of undisciplined penalties this year, but I didn't think last night was a big problem in that regard. A lot of the penalties were a result of guys being overpowered -- like all three of the early holding penalties. That's not discipline, it's lack of skill and/or strength. The Lemon penalty on the kick return was a pretty chintzy call. The INT call on Rico Murray in the end zone was a ridiculous call by the Command Centre.

[OV Argo]

Penalties, injuries (Coombs 2nd down possession receiver with Yac) and Ricky can't seem to throw the ball downfield right now. The shoulder he landed on, was his throwing shoulder. It apparently has been weakened, and I think everyone knows it. Early in the season, he was stretching the field with success. Not so since the injury.

8 wins and a shot at the playoffs is still a good season to me (this year).

IF Ray is damaged goods and can\t throw deep balls or well down field, then IMO he should be sat down in favor of Fajardo; or does Trestman now think he can win with a Millanovich check-down / dink & dunk passing game ? (note - the answer is NO); again - the Ticats won the game mostly IMO or at least partly because of a couple of deep pass/vertical shots (TD pass to Banks and deep end zone throw to Tasker late that drew a PI); WTF are Trestman or Ray waiting for or afraid of, to try some deep, vertical pass plays ?

And the Ticats O-line is worse than the Argos' and was furthered hampered by having to start a raw rookie at OT; yet they are able to get Masoli to win over a HOF QB like Ray ??? - the offensive coaches and play-book/calling deserve the huge share of the blame here - limited, myopic, same old standard $hit CFL offence at work.

[Argo57]

IF Ray is damaged goods and can\t throw deep balls or well down field, then IMO he should be sat down in favor of Fajardo; or does Trestman now think he can win with a Millanovich check-down / dink & dunk passing game ? (note - the answer is NO); again - the Ticats won the game mostly IMO or at least partly because of a couple of deep pass/vertical shots (TD pass to Banks and deep end zone throw to Tasker late that drew a PI); WTF are Trestman or Ray waiting for or afraid of, to try some deep, vertical pass plays ?

And the Ticats O-line is worse than the Argos' and was furthered hampered by having to start a raw rookie at OT; yet they are able to get Masoli to win over a HOF QB like Ray ??? - the offensive coaches and play-book/calling deserve the huge share of the blame here - limited, myopic, same old standard $hit CFL offence at work.

Basically the same offensive scheme called by the same OC.
Maybe let Condell get more involved in the O, I'm assuming he currently has limited input.

[Neely2005]

IF Ray is damaged goods and can\t throw deep balls or well down field, then IMO he should be sat down in favor of Fajardo; or does Trestman now think he can win with a Millanovich check-down / dink & dunk passing game ? (note - the answer is NO); again - the Ticats won the game mostly IMO or at least partly because of a couple of deep pass/vertical shots (TD pass to Banks and deep end zone throw to Tasker late that drew a PI); WTF are Trestman or Ray waiting for or afraid of, to try some deep, vertical pass plays ?

And the Ticats O-line is worse than the Argos' and was furthered hampered by having to start a raw rookie at OT; yet they are able to get Masoli to win over a HOF QB like Ray ??? - the offensive coaches and play-book/calling deserve the huge share of the blame here - limited, myopic, same old standard $hit CFL offence at work.

Didn't they attempt a deep shot on Ray's interception?

[gilthethrill]

Didn't they attempt a deep shot on Ray's interception?

It was somewhat deep. Hard to believe he under threw Green with the wind at his back. Nothing is normal for the Argos on Labour Day.

[RB957]

I was going to way in with my own comments, but a number of others have already hit the nail on the head and articulated it better than I could. One thing, and I don't know how to say it, but I am surprised that this deep into the season the "Trestman" factor hasn't sunk in more. It just seems that the same things, mostly bad, keep happening to this team and I was really hoping it would be different. I just don't get it.

[DoubleBlue_Red]

Sadly, I would rather watch the Argos at THF than BMO. Just has a better CFL feel to it than games in Toronto. We are lucky our team is still better than their's despite them having a bigger fan base and a CFL specific stadium.

[paulwoods13]

Sadly, I would rather watch the Argos at THF than BMO. Just has a better CFL feel to it than games in Toronto.

I have to disagree with this. THF is nice, but I love the atmosphere at BMO. Maybe it's a function of where I sit, and where I have sat at THF (which, admittedly, I have not been to since 2015).

[gilthethrill]

I have to disagree with this. THF is nice, but I love the atmosphere at BMO. Maybe it's a function of where I sit, and where I have sat at THF (which, admittedly, I have not been to since 2015).

For sure Paul. I thought your seats were majestic when I dropped by last season. Even up where I sit, there is atmosphere. I really enjoy BMO Field.

[Neely2005]

Sadly, I would rather watch the Argos at THF than BMO. Just has a better CFL feel to it than games in Toronto. We are lucky our team is still better than their's despite them having a bigger fan base and a CFL specific stadium.

I think the canopies make BMO Field the better stadium.