Als stockpiling Canadian QBs

[OV Argo]

Jim was the first guy under Cohon to give a Canadian QB a shot. He started it all. He should be commended not blamed.

Who's blaming him and what is he being blamed for? Yep - he did sign (and not draft) Brannagan, and he stuck around the PR for one whole season; there was CFL talk of NI QBs being mandated or a roster freebee or something along those lines back at that time.

[KCargosfan]

My question would be, just exactly why, do the Argos "thinkers" like some of their current QBs - like Hall, Trafalis or that other guy they signed this off-season, better than Quinlan? Is it because of the amazing arm strength, accuracy, mobility and poise, plus very nice football accomplishments, includng extensive experience playing the Canadian game, of these other QBs? And it's same for every other CFL team that chose not to draft Quinlan? That must be the reason, there just can't be any other factors at work here. Pretty obvious eh, Ravi - the good ole - "well, they're not "good enough" " excuse; exact same reason Flynn or Leason or Denison never played a down in the CFL; while Chris Leak, Joey Elliott, Ted White and a whole slew of other stiffs have got to play QB in the CFL.

Probably a lot has to do with "potential" of a player that GMs see. I would compare it to the NBA's obsession with drafting on "potential" since the mid-late 90s.

As far as Chris Leak, I wouldn't exactly say it was a bad idea giving him a chance. He's an athletic guy who can run, has an arm and put up good numbers in the SEC. He obviously didn't turn out well up there, but it was worth a shot.

Quinlan and Graves are getting shots, with the worst-case scenario they go back to school for another season and get better. Not being Canadian, I don't have the emotion of wanting to see a Canadian QB as badly as others, but I would think this would at least be considered progress.

[ArgoRavi]

Probably a lot has to do with "potential" of a player that GMs see. I would compare it to the NBA's obsession with drafting on "potential" since the mid-late 90s.

As far as Chris Leak, I wouldn't exactly say it was a bad idea giving him a chance. He's an athletic guy who can run, has an arm and put up good numbers in the SEC. He obviously didn't turn out well up there, but it was worth a shot.

Quinlan and Graves are getting shots, with the worst-case scenario they go back to school for another season and get better. Not being Canadian, I don't have the emotion of wanting to see a Canadian QB as badly as others, but I would think this would at least be considered progress.

For the third consecutive season, Canadian QBs are getting an opportunity at training camp. Brannagan earned a shot two years ago and was at camp last year along with Marc Mueller in Edmonton and Brad Sinopoli in Calgary who made that team. This year, we have Sinopoli, Quinlan and Graves at least. That is certainly progress.

[Rich]

As far as CIS QBs all-time; there have been some good ones for sure I've seen (Jon Makie who led the Bisons to the 07 Vanier win at the SkyDome would be my all-time most under-rated), BUT - in terms of all-time best - a guy by the name of Russ Jackson played CIS ball - QBing McMaster - I didn't get to see him play there, but since he is arguably (IMO he is the best) one of the all-time best QBs ever in the CFL or pro ball, i find it hard to believe he was not the best CIS QB of all-time.

I'm pretty sure Ptaszek, or anyone else who makes such a claim, means the best CIS QB "since Russ Jackson", it kinda goes without saying.

I'm surprised nobody's mentioned Jamie Bone from Western, who had a tryout with the Dallas Cowboys in the early 80s IIRC. In those days the Varsity Blues had a strong team and always gave the Mustangs a good battle. (Wasn't Mark Bragagnolo, the last UofT RB to play in the CFL, on one of those teams?) Anyway that stadium at Western was packed for I think a playoff game and a bunch of us came down from UofT and i remember through the haze a great football game, and a real good-natured party in the stands with lots of pretty girls. It was a blast even though the Blues lost. It's too bad people in university today don't know how much fun football games can be.

[OV Argo]

For the third consecutive season, Canadian QBs are getting an opportunity at training camp. Brannagan earned a shot two years ago and was at camp last year along with Marc Mueller in Edmonton and Brad Sinopoli in Calgary who made that team. This year, we have Sinopoli, Quinlan and Graves at least. That is certainly progress.

I suppose; a Canadian QB getting some real playing time at QB in the CFL would be more of a sign of some progress to me; but maybe that's just me; and since a Canadian QB hasn't had any real playing time in the CFL in something like 15+ years, I'm not holding my breath on any real sign of "progress". Sinopoli going to make the Stamps as 3rd stringer again this season? - i guess he might get a shot to play if both Tate and Glenn went down to injury or perhaps both s*ck*d big-time as Stamps' QB?

A Canadian QB actually making a CFL roster AND some devastating injuries to other QBs higher on the depth chart, is a faint hope that a Canadian QB might get a shot at some playing time i guess; one Canadian QB on a CFL roster = little chance. Who do the Ticats, BC, Esks or Argos, for example, have as decent 3rd stringers going into TC?

Further down the CFL road - a CFL key decision maker from an actual Canadian football background who knows a lot of and has respect for a top CIS QB and gives a real shot to a Canadian QB, might be another way there's a chance a Canadian could get to play QB in the CFL; for example - if somehow a CFL team hired Mac HC Stef Ptaszek as a HC or OC, the chance of a Quinlan getting to play in the CFL goes up substantially IMO; DO NOT hold your breath in this department either.

[Rich]

Could the explanation simply be that the Argos liked their current QBs better than Quinlan?

Well obviously, Ravi, but what do YOU think? Would YOU keep BJ Hall over Quinlan at this point in time if you had the choice? What about Tafralis?

[OV Argo]

I'm pretty sure Ptaszek, or anyone else who makes such a claim, means the best CIS QB "since Russ Jackson", it kinda goes without saying.

I'm surprised nobody's mentioned Jamie Bone from Western, who had a tryout with the Dallas Cowboys in the early 80s IIRC. In those days the Varsity Blues had a strong team and always gave the Mustangs a good battle. (Wasn't Mark Bragagnolo, the last UofT RB to play in the CFL, on one of those teams?) Anyway that stadium at Western was packed for I think a playoff game and a bunch of us came down from UofT and i remember through the haze a great football game, and a real good-natured party in the stands with lots of pretty girls. It was a blast even though the Blues lost. It's too bad people in university today don't know how much fun football games can be.

Yeah Rich - forgot about Bone - another example of an outstanding CIS QB who never played a down in the CFL.

Another one might be Dan Fereday - U of T star QB who was actually drafted by the Bengals in the NFL (by Forrest Gregg's Bengals - and here's what Bengals OC - Lindy Infante, vet NFL offensive guru, said about Fereday - quoted in Jay Teitel's fine book - "The Argo Bounce" : "the most accurate thing I've seen on film this year. He's calm cool, and has a great sense of the field. If he played US college football he would have been drafted among the top three quarterbacks"); Fereday was in Argos TC in 82 (apparently amongst 11 (!) QBs there), got cut, went to the Bengals, didn't make it there; not sure if he ever got another CFL look - but another example of a top Canadian QB who never played a down in the CFL.

[Rich]

if somehow a CFL team hired Mac HC Stef Ptaszek as a HC or OC, the chance of a Quinlan getting to play in the CFL goes up substantially IMO; DO NOT hold your breath in this department either.

I'm not so sure. Someone DID hire (the other) Greg Marshall once. Ptaszek has got to be at least on the radar. That was a pretty-well coached team that won the Vanier last year. Tillman likes to take risky chances, he'll sign him someday soon.

[OV Argo]

I'm not so sure. Someone DID hire (the other) Greg Marshall once. Ptaszek has got to be at least on the radar. That was a pretty-well coached team that won the Vanier last year. Tillman likes to take risky chances, he'll sign him someday soon.

Maybe/ could be - but I don't have as much faith in that department as you do perhaps; Millanovich or Chamblin or Bart Andrus types get their CFL shots with very little Canadian football experience. Ptaszek = played in the CFL, fine football coaching resume (OC for that gritty, smart Laurier offence/team that won a Vanier, plus now HC of a Vanier winner) ... well, we'll see if he ever gets a CFL key decison maker offer (and i have no idea if he's be interested in leaving his nice CIS gig?); and we'll see if the likes of Constantin or Nill or Marshall (again - what, the CFL recycle?) ever get CFL key decison maker opportunity - in the "radically Canadian" CFL ;0); again - IMO - don't hold your breath on this one.

[paulwoods13]

Maybe/ could be - but I don't have as much faith in that department as you do perhaps; Millanovich or Chamblin or Bart Andrus types get their CFL shots with very little Canadian football experience.

Trestman is another "Bart Andrus type" who got a shot with very little CFL experience, right OV? And going back a ways, how about Don Matthews, hired into the CFL out of U.S. high school (!) football if I'm not mistaken?

[argonaut11xx]

Hmmm..Bart Andrus...

... i wonder if Bart Andrus, and The Count from seasame street have ever been seen together??....hmmmm
what about Barry Manilow, and Joe Montana...or John Elway and Silken Laumen...????

could they be leading double lives???

[ArgoRavi]

Well obviously, Ravi, but what do YOU think? Would YOU keep BJ Hall over Quinlan at this point in time if you had the choice? What about Tafralis?

I like Tafralis quite a bit so I have no problem signing him over Quinlan. I have not seen enough of B.J. Hall to know whether he is any better than Quinlan or not. For the record, I do think that Quinlan is good enough to challenge for a spot somewhere in this league.

[OV Argo]

Trestman is another "Bart Andrus type" who got a shot with very little CFL experience, right OV? And going back a ways, how about Don Matthews, hired into the CFL out of U.S. high school (!) football if I'm not mistaken?

Right - and so between us, we could probably name dozens of these types who have been handed key CFL decision making jobs - with mixed degrees of success i guess - Matthews and Trestman quite successful, Andrus, Joe Paopao types at the other end of the scale.

OTOH - Paul - can you name me dozens or even a few examples of veteran, accomplished football people from the Canadian football system - guys who grew up playing the game here and coached here at many levels - being hired as key decision makers in the CFL? Russ Jackson i suppose, way back; Greg Marshall (the Canadian one) - gets hired by the Ticats, resurects a horrid Ticats 1 & 17 team and wins CFL coach of the year, and gets fired a couple of seasons later (as happens to many coaches whose teams struggle). Why so few examples of Canadians (not CFL schooled good ole boy Canadians - a stooge like Taman) being hired as key people in the CFL, yet dozens of examples of Americans with little or zip experience in or understanding of the Canadian game, being handed top CFL jobs? Isn't this the "radically canadian" CFL ? - yep - the same good ole radical league that hasn't seen a Canadian QB get to play a signifigant down in 15 years or so.

[KCargosfan]

Hmmm..Bart Andrus...

... i wonder if Bart Andrus, and The Count from seasame street have ever been seen together??....

Haha, good question. One of the mysteries of our planet.

[Argocister]

Isn't Benevides Canadian? From T.O?

[ArgoRavi]

Can't remember where I read it .... Some twitter account..... But apparently the Lions have placed Greene ( the 3 rd CIS QB) on their negotiating list. I wonder if he will be invited to training camp ..... Similar to what Quinlan did last year with the TiCats. I think Greene said he plans on returning to school this year anyway.
Isn't Benevides Canadian? From T.O?

The last I heard from today was that Greene was on Edmonton's negotiation list but they have since taken him off. I haven't heard anything about the Lions picking him up but perhaps they have. Benevides is indeed Canadian. Is he part of the "ole boys network" though? I don't know for sure. I believe that Wally Buono, another Canadian, would be considered to be part of that network so Benevides likely is as well. Another Canadian working for the Lions is Neil McEvoy while Marcel Desjardins, yet another Canadian, is the assistant GM for the Alouettes. Here is a good article from the Ottawa Citizen which lists the candidates for the GM position in Ottawa, at least according to their fine reporter, Don Campbell: http://www.ottawacitizen.com/sports/...899/story.html

Drew Allemang and Marcel Bellefeuille are other Canadians on that list. Bellefeuille has extensive CIS experience as well.

[Argocister]

Sorry for that erroneous info on Greene...... Misread the tweet and combined it with another...... Partsheimers?
When I went to check then returned and deleted my post .... You had already replied. Thanx for the info tho

[argolio]

The thing I'm not hearing in all these comments is the role and responsibility of current and past Canadian CFL players. In his 1972 book, Mel Profit (an American) criticized the league for adding one American and reducing one Canadian in the early 70s. The CFLPA okayed that change as well as every subsequent roster change.

In recent years the loudest proponents of Canadian QBs within the league have been people like Jim Barker, Eric Tillman, John Hufnagel, and Jim Popp, all Americans. Some might argue whether their concern has been genuine, but in comparison the players have been almost totally silent.

So whatever the virtues may be of giving more opportunities to Canadian QBs (and Canadian coaches & executives), I'd argue that the league's Canadian players, whether by their silence or by their approval of past changes, fully support how the CFL operates today.

[KCargosfan]

I'm thinking OVA should be more pissed about Bellefeuille being canned in Hamilton. Personally, I think getting to the East Final and doing what he did over 3 years wasn't worth getting fired.

http://en.montrealalouettes.com/arti...sell-to-roster

Apparently the Als are just stockpiling QBs in general. Maybe Calvillo won't report to camp until June 10th or something. Weird.