REGULAR SEASON FINALE GAME THREAD / Week 20 / Argos @ Lions

[paulwoods13]

I don't remember Robert Drummond being as physical as James Jr. To me he more of a chip off the old block. He is suppose to be still under contract for 2018, if Popp doesn't let him go early. I'm sure the NFL will come calling again.

It's hard to know whether that will happen. Certainly he's dominating this league, and for better or worse the Argos get more NFL attention than other teams. But he was on NFL practice rosters for two seasons, and was a FA who could have been signed by any NFL team after Buf cut him last year. I'd say it's about 50/50 that he gets some interest from the NFL. If I were Popp, I wouldn't stand in his way if he has a good offer, but would first ask him how many undrafted FAs have made the NFL at RB four years out of college. And inform him how the greatest rusher the CFL has ever seen, Mike Pringle, barely got a sniff from the Broncos at the peak of his abilities.

[AngeloV]

It's hard to know whether that will happen. Certainly he's dominating this league, and for better or worse the Argos get more NFL attention than other teams. But he was on NFL practice rosters for two seasons, and was a FA who could have been signed by any NFL team after Buf cut him last year. I'd say it's about 50/50 that he gets some interest from the NFL. If I were Popp, I wouldn't stand in his way if he has a good offer, but would first ask him how many undrafted FAs have made the NFL at RB four years out of college. And inform him how the greatest rusher the CFL has ever seen, Mike Pringle, barely got a sniff from the Broncos at the peak of his abilities.

Obviously I hope he stays here, but I if he were to go, I hope he has a lot of success.

[OV Argo]

I don't remember Robert Drummond being as physical as James Jr. To me he more of a chip off the old block. He is suppose to be still under contract for 2018, if Popp doesn't let him go early. I'm sure the NFL will come calling again.

Wilder might (but I doubt it) get an NFL shot again - based on his famous NFL name and coming from a top notch Div I program; but not on what he's done in the CFL - NFL scouts don't give a rat's @$$ about CFL RBs.

As far as comparison to Drummond - very similar in that they are big and tall tailbacks who run sort of more upright; both have (had) great speed for big backs, and some power that goes with their size; but neither is an overly physical runner to me - not pure power runners and not like they go looking to smash mouth run over defenders, but they can when they have to; but patient backs who can hit a hole with power & speed and both break-away threats. Wilder's just over 7 yards/carry average this season is off the charts outstanding; if he could get close to that again in a full CFL season where he gets well over a thousand yards or leads the league in rushing he might go down as an all-time great CFL RB talent (and up there with the likes of Symons, McQuay, Fenerty, Jenkins as an all-time great Argo tailback talent). We shall see - love to see a full season ... or 3 or more, in an Argo uniform, out of this guy !

[Jon Gonzo]

I have no doubt that Wilder will get some sniffs. RB is a different position though, and at 25, he may be more interested in starting as opposed to the potential of another position on a practice roster? I could see one more crack at that. Take the $400,000 a year, see how it pans out, and then return at 27-28.

Most NFL Teams draft RB's high and play them soon thereafter. The guys with the newspaper clippings.

It has to be a dream for him though.

The comparison to Robert Drummond is obvious. Both running styles mixed grace with power. Both were big men for the position, and both ran with an upright running style. Another similarity is that there was /is very little motion in the run, and had a look of smoothness -- until contact.

And that's the violent part (;

One difference is that one was drafted in the 3rd Round of the NFL Draft, and played 36 games with 3 TD's. The other (Wilder) went undrafted and never dressed for a regular season game. So Drummond had a more impressive resume coming in.

Of course, it goes without saying, that Wilder has a long way to go to match Drummond. Like, 4 Grey Cups. But he shows much promise, and he'll have to stay healthy and stay put.

[argolio]

Boy we got lucky on that bad pass completion to Green.

How is it bad when a completion gets you a first down?


Looks like a balanced group of playoff teams, especially if the Stamps have fallen back. We could see some great games over the next three weeks.

Can't wait for the 19th.

[argotom]

How is it bad when a completion gets you a first down?


Looks like a balanced group of playoff teams, especially if the Stamps have fallen back. We could see some great games over the next three weeks.

Can't wait for the 19th.

You didn't see it?
It was a lame duck pass, across the field and how the DB did not intercept I'll never know.
Otherwise if Ray had to do it over again, I would think he would not have even tried to complete as the DB was spying on our receiver.
He had a better chance to catch it than Green did who was likely surprised it landed in his hands.

[doubleblue]

Wilder might (but I doubt it) get an NFL shot again - based on his famous NFL name and coming from a top notch Div I program; but not on what he's done in the CFL - NFL scouts don't give a rat's @$$ about CFL RBs.

As far as comparison to Drummond - very similar in that they are big and tall tailbacks who run sort of more upright; both have (had) great speed for big backs, and some power that goes with their size; but neither is an overly physical runner to me - not pure power runners and not like they go looking to smash mouth run over defenders, but they can when they have to; but patient backs who can hit a hole with power & speed and both break-away threats. Wilder's just over 7 yards/carry average this season is off the charts outstanding; if he could get close to that again in a full CFL season where he gets well over a thousand yards or leads the league in rushing he might go down as an all-time great CFL RB talent (and up there with the likes of Symons, McQuay, Fenerty, Jenkins as an all-time great Argo tailback talent). We shall see - love to see a full season ... or 3 or more, in an Argo uniform, out of this guy !

I don't know about the NFL not wanting to sign CFL RB's. The Argo one's you mentioned except for Symons (maybe he was better than most of the others) plus Cedric Minter all went down south and were never any good afterwards. But just about any CFL RB that has a great year goes down for a shot at the big money. Can't blame them. Messam, Charles Roberts, Mike Pringle and the back out in Regina come to mind. But there have been others. Jon Cornish is one of the few good ones that stayed put.

So I think Wilder Jr. will give it another shot even just to please his Dad. A half million US for even a backup RB and special teams position a year would probably take him 4 years or more in the CFL to equal it.

[Antwon]

OK I was glad to see JB and SM get let go. And very happy Popp and Trestman were brought on.
With the late hiring I expected the team to get close to 500 and be behind Ott and Ham in the standings.
But 9-9 and first place exceedes expectations!! More importantly is how well the team has come together.
I had a lot of faith in Trestman and little faith in Ray. But eat my words Ray had an outstanding season.
And the pass heavy offense on Trestman was altered as he seen Ray taking a beating game after game. Leaning more on the run combinded with Wilder busting out gives us a balanced attack and Ray taking fewer hits.


So now on to the Final!!

[timlb01]

OK I was glad to see JB and SM get let go. And very happy Popp and Trestman were brought on.
With the late hiring I expected the team to get close to 500 and be behind Ott and Ham in the standings.
But 9-9 and first place exceedes expectations!! More importantly is how well the team has come together.
I had a lot of faith in Trestman and little faith in Ray. But eat my words Ray had an outstanding season.
And the pass heavy offense on Trestman was altered as he seen Ray taking a beating game after game. Leaning more on the run combinded with Wilder busting out gives us a balanced attack and Ray taking fewer hits.


So now on to the Final!!

You could not have asked for a better pair. Popp has proven in Montreal that he can win long term and be consistent. Trestman proved that he can win consistently as well when he was in Montreal. I know everywhere Don Matthews coached it was going to be pretty hard for anyone to beat him. I feel the same now with Trestman. I am still amazed that these two have been able to do what they have done so far this year. I still think no matter what the stats say Matthews was the greatest coach ever. The 4 years he coached in Toronto were some of the greatest especially the two with Flutie. I think we are again in an era where this could be the next best thing to 1996 and 1997. Amazing job by these guys win or lose on the 19th. I am over the moon.

[AngeloV]

You didn't see it?
It was a lame duck pass, across the field and how the DB did not intercept I'll never know.
Otherwise if Ray had to do it over again, I would think he would not have even tried to complete as the DB was spying on our receiver.
He had a better chance to catch it than Green did who was likely surprised it landed in his hands.

any ball that is out of reach of the DB, whether by an inch or a yard is a good pass if it gets to the receiver. Ray is 100% aware of his arm strength, and if he wasn't confident the DB was too far away to make a play, he wouldn't have thrown the ball. Enough with the cliche comment of it being a lame duck.

[Bleeds Double Blue]

I admit that I was not a big fan of the Jim Popp hiring. Based on what the Als looked like the last couple of years it seemed to me as though he was hired as the last man available. My bad. Considering what he has accomplished with virtually no offseason to work with and looking at the Als situation with Kavis Reed it’s apparent that ownership meddling had a lot to do with Montreal’s record of late. If I had my druthers (what the hell is a druther?) I would pick Jim Popp over Reed every time. Thank you Montreal.

I would suggest that should the Argonauts stun the world and win the Grey Cup Bob Wetenhall should get a ring for his contributions to the cause.

[timlb01]

I admit that I was not a big fan of the Jim Popp hiring. Based on what the Als looked like the last couple of years it seemed to me as though he was hired as the last man available. My bad. Considering what he has accomplished with virtually no offseason to work with and looking at the Als situation with Kavis Reed it’s apparent that ownership meddling had a lot to do with Montreal’s record of late. If I had my druthers (what the hell is a druther?) I would pick Jim Popp over Reed every time. Thank you Montreal.

I would suggest that should the Argonauts stun the world and win the Grey Cup Bob Wetenhall should get a ring for his contributions to the cause.

A+

[AngeloV]

I admit that I was not a big fan of the Jim Popp hiring. Based on what the Als looked like the last couple of years it seemed to me as though he was hired as the last man available. My bad. Considering what he has accomplished with virtually no offseason to work with and looking at the Als situation with Kavis Reed it’s apparent that ownership meddling had a lot to do with Montreal’s record of late. If I had my druthers (what the hell is a druther?) I would pick Jim Popp over Reed every time. Thank you Montreal.

I would suggest that should the Argonauts stun the world and win the Grey Cup Bob Wetenhall should get a ring for his contributions to the cause.

I still think the problem in Montreal is due to meddling owners. I'm convinced they forced Popp to make all the impatient coaching changes that he did. Any coach is going to have a tough time there, because rumour has it the owners will force any coach to keep AC on the staff. Nothing against him, but philosophically, that is not the way a chain of command should work. GM chooses coach. Coach chooses coaching staff.

[Will]

I still think the problem in Montreal is due to meddling owners. I'm convinced they forced Popp to make all the impatient coaching changes that he did. Any coach is going to have a tough time there, because rumour has it the owners will force any coach to keep AC on the staff. Nothing against him, but philosophically, that is not the way a chain of command should work. GM chooses coach. Coach chooses coaching staff.

I agree with you on this point. It seems that the Alouettes may be similar to the Colts on that point. How much did Calvillo mask any dysfunction with ownership when he was playing similar to Manning masking any dysfunction with the Irsays.

[R.J]

I still think the problem in Montreal is due to meddling owners. I'm convinced they forced Popp to make all the impatient coaching changes that he did. Any coach is going to have a tough time there, because rumour has it the owners will force any coach to keep AC on the staff. Nothing against him, but philosophically, that is not the way a chain of command should work. GM chooses coach. Coach chooses coaching staff.

Agreed. I also think AC maybe needs to take a seat in terms of coaching, looks lost on the sidelines, and clearly nowhere near ready to be the play caller/OC. An ambassador role IMO is better suited for Calvillo right now.

[jerrym]

Living in Vancouver, I got to see Wilder at BC Place for the first time rather than on a broadcast. As many of you have already seen at BMO, he's even more impressive under these circumstances where you can see what he is doing throughout every play.

[AngeloV]

Living in Vancouver, I got to see Wilder at BC Place for the first time rather than on a broadcast. As many of you have already seen at BMO, he's even more impressive under these circumstances where you can see what he is doing throughout every play.

It's definitely been a pleasure to watch him do what he does.

[gilthethrill]

It's definitely been a pleasure to watch him do what he does.

Was Cory Boyd just as dominant in 2010 and 2011 as Wilder Jr is now?

[ArgoGabe22]

Was Cory Boyd just as dominant in 2010 and 2011 as Wilder Jr is now?

Wilder is much better IMO

[OV Argo]

Wilder is much better IMO

Boyd was good; i think Wilder is better too (faster for sure); but i need to see more to be sure - a full season out of Wilder playing like he has in 10 games or so this year. Sorry, but he ain't exactly Leon McQuay to me yet ;o)