Argos want what TFC has - and vice versa

[DoubleBlue_Red]

I find it curious that the success or failure of TFC and the Argos are so often treated as a zero sum affair. While there's a basic linkage between all the sports teams in the city given a finite number of entertainment dollars spent, MLS growth has very little to do with CFL decline in Toronto.

It has become more of a zero sum affair now that the teams are sharing BMO field. Clearly 1/2 the Argo fanbase does not like BMO field and are not attending.

[paulwoods13]

Clearly 1/2 the Argo fanbase does not like BMO field and are not attending.

Huh? So the Argos have 28,000 fans, but only 14,000 of them like BMO? Any evidence for this claim?

[DoubleBlue_Red]

Huh? So the Argos have 28,000 fans, but only 14,000 of them like BMO? Any evidence for this claim?

In the Flutie era the Argos averaged about 17K at the Dome.

In the Damon Allen era they averaged about 23k.

In the Braley era the average was back to about 17k.

In the BMO field era the Argos are around 14K.

There has clearly been a decline in attendance over a short amount of time.

[paulwoods13]

In the Flutie era the Argos averaged about 17K at the Dome.

In the Damon Allen era they averaged about 23k.

In the Braley era the average was back to about 17k.

In the BMO field era the Argos are around 14K.

There has clearly been a decline in attendance over a short amount of time.

None of this provides evidence that half of the Argos' fanbase does not like BMO and is not attending. Attendance has been declining since 1976, with a few upward exceptions along the way.

[BATKINSON001]

None of this provides evidence that half of the Argos' fanbase does not like BMO and is not attending. Attendance has been declining since 1976, with a few upward exceptions along the way.

no it doesn't, but a large portion of the Argos fanbase chooses not to, or cannot, attend the home games.

[DoubleBlue_Red]

None of this provides evidence that half of the Argos' fanbase does not like BMO and is not attending. Attendance has been declining since 1976, with a few upward exceptions along the way.

OK 'half' is hyperbole. But long story short in 2007 the Argos were getting 20K+ in the Skydome. They are not getting that at BMO.

[Jon Gonzo]

I think some are guilty of over-simplification in this thread.

How not to run a business? Do what Braley did over his 5 year tenure as Owner.

I believe the current attendance numbers are more an echo of that inefficiency -- as opposed to any statement about the new facility.

I'll give Braley credit for the hold; it may have saved the franchise, but there has been a price to pay.

Now that we've checked off a couple of boxes in the positive column (a good football program with solid football people running it, and a more entertaining product, and good football team) we will call on Michael Copeland to channel Keith Pelley with business baby steps.

This truly is (pardon the cliche) a 5 season program of re-growth.

This is Year 1.

Can they do it? Yes, they can; but Copeland will have to be good. I know I'll demand that of him. It's important to me, us and the entire league.

[Mightygoose]

I think some are guilty of over-simplification in this thread.

How not to run a business? Do what Braley did over his 5 year tenure as Owner.

I believe the current attendance numbers are more an echo of that inefficiency -- as opposed to any statement about the new facility.

I'll give Braley credit for the hold; it may have saved the franchise, but there has been a price to pay.

Now that we've checked off a couple of boxes in the positive column (a good football program with solid football people running it, and a more entertaining product, and good football team) we will call on Michael Copeland to channel Keith Pelley with business baby steps.

This truly is (pardon the cliche) a 5 season program of re-growth.

This is Year 1.

Can they do it? Yes, they can; but Copeland will have to be good. I know I'll demand that of him. It's important to me, us and the entire league.

This.

1 years ago is not that long ago. In 2007 the Argos averaged nearly 31K a game (sold and distributed). Yes, that was a Grey Cup hosting year which brings up the average. Still during the C&S era, they never averaged less than 25K a game. They were higher than the Jays in many of those years.

That started to slowly slip during the Braley era but were seeing things in BC very similar to what happened here too. I've always said a badly run business is going to have fewer customers than one that's well run and funded. The Grey Cup Fiasco last year is a big part of this year's decline.....still a by product of the Braley era I might add. That's a major difference between TFC and the Argos too.

[paulwoods13]

OK 'half' is hyperbole. But long story short in 2007 the Argos were getting 20K+ in the Skydome. They are not getting that at BMO.

It is fact that they are not currently drawing 20k at BMO. It is far less certain that they were regularly drawing 20k+ (at least paid) at SkyDome in 2007, since it has widely been reported that attendance figures released by that regime were not accurate. Beyond that, there is the undisputed fact that attendance peaked in 1976 and has been dropping ever since, except for a few upward blips along the way. Your statement seems to suggest that BMO is the reason fans are not attending. Which doesn't explain the 27 years in SkyDome, or the last 12 in Exhibition Stadium.