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  1. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by ToneDeaf View Post
    Also, the younger generation will not tolerate what seems to be borderline homophobic commentary on display on this thread and will only increase the perception that Argo fans are fusty, old, white men with two feet in the past.
    I must have missed the borderline homophobic comments?

  2. #102
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    I don't think attendance has actually declined since the last few years of Braley, or at least not by much. I think they've simply stopped tacking 2,000 no shows onto the final figure. Michael Hook claims that paid attendance is actually up and I'm inclined to believe it. The flex tickets were a mistake -- not revoking them but offering them in the first place. You give things away and people interpret them as valueless. The current ownership has years worth of this problem to undo.

    On another note, I agree firmly with R.J. The complaints on this forum about location are incredibly exasperating.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tau Ceti View Post
    I don't think attendance has actually declined since the last few years of Braley, or at least not by much. I think they've simply stopped tacking 2,000 no shows onto the final figure. Michael Hook claims that paid attendance is actually up and I'm inclined to believe it. The flex tickets were a mistake -- not revoking them but offering them in the first place. You give things away and people interpret them as valueless. The current ownership has years worth of this problem to undo.

    On another note, I agree firmly with R.J. The complaints on this forum about location are incredibly exasperating.
    Agreed. As I suggested in an earlier post, as well, the fact is other fan bases come into the city, be it the Dome or BMO, and deal with all the same issues - parking, traffic, etc - yet the Argo base stays home is large numbers. Again, why is this?

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    Quote Originally Posted by ToneDeaf View Post
    I agree wholeheartedly that both fans groups ought to be more tolerant of the other. I watch TFC regularly at BMO and deeply dislike the moronic 'No Argos at BMO' chant. It is, however rooted mainly in one particular fan group who by no means represent the opinions of the larger fan base.

    I might add that I also hate the ridiculous over reactions to fouls in soccer, as do the vast majority of soccer fans. it is a scourge on what is otherwise the 'beautiful game'.

    I do hope that TFC and Argo fans can live and let live as you say - there are benefits that each can gain from the other and also become fans of the other, but it takes effort from both sides - there have been notorious Argo trolls targeting TFC on social media, too.
    As someone who did post about TFC in an unfavourable manner in the last day, or so, I felt I needed to reply.

    First of all, I did not intend to offend, but the game Sunday was an example of what is wrong with the sport of soccer: the constant feigning of injury, the ridiculous arguments, fans littering the field with debris...As i noted, I played soccer when I was younger and quite enjoy the sport, so I am not coming at this from an anti-soccer/TFC bias. I am glad we are on the same page as far as the over reaction to fouls go. Again, I applaud MLS for their marketing savvy. They've made soccer a success in North America, even if it is not highly ranked among the rest of the world's leagues. The CFL could learn from this type of marketing, although I consider it's product much better.

    I used to be a follower of the Toronto Blizzard, in the old NASL, (better soccer than MLS, IMO) and I don't recall any animosity from the Argos (or Jays), or their fans, when the soccer team began play in Exhibition Stadium. The same can't be said for some (not all), in the TFC camp. I've never heard any Argo fan ever complain about TFC except as a sort of defensive reaction to the derision that has come the Argos way from some of the TFC supporters groups since the move into BMO. I think we should all be supportive of any team that represents our city/region. To that end, I also compared Giovinco unfavourably to Wendel Clark. Well, to me Giovinco acts like a spoiled brat while Wendel was the humble, hard working, heart and soul of the Leafs for almost 15 years. I know who I choose to represent me.

    You clearly have an open mind to the Argos, for that I applaud you, and I hope you have a great time on the 19th.

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    It is undoubtedly true, that when things are given away free, people will often see the items, if not valueless, then definitely of reduced value.

    However the flex tickets were not given away free but rather given as a reward for those who had purchased season tickets. Argo season ticket holders are hardly overwhelmed, with rewards or benefits for putting out money, way in advance of the season. In my case the flex tickets were utilized to bring friends and family members to the game and hopefully motivating some of them to buy Argo tickets in the future.

    This may simply be a case of individuals interpreting something in different ways and neither view is necessarily wrong. Whereas one may see the flex tickets as a valuable perk for being a STH, even a useful marketing tool to encourage future fans, others will see it as a freeby that devalues the value of the tickets they have purchased and discourage others from buying tickets at the regular price.

    In our case the use of flex tickets did create interest in the team and motivated individuals to want to come to future games--so it worked but I respect if others have a different view. Whatever your take on this issue, I still hold that STH's are not receiving sufficient benefits from being a STH.

  6. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shatto View Post
    ...However the flex tickets were not given away free but rather given as a reward for those who had purchased season tickets. Argo season ticket holders are hardly overwhelmed, with rewards or benefits for putting out money, way in advance of the season. In my case the flex tickets were utilized to bring friends and family members to the game and hopefully motivating some of them to buy Argo tickets in the future...
    I don't mean to suggest the flex tickets were unappreciated or that having them taken away is not a fair frustration. (Having only been a STH for two seasons perhaps I haven't been exposed to as much misery and am being more forgiving.)

    But I still don't like the strategy. For groups that have little purchasing power to begin with (eg. kids) or are deserving of special recognition (veterans, alumni, etc.) by all means have targeted freebies. (The absence of a smart children's strategy is really puzzling in year 3 at BMO.) Or, if you are making it open to all, have a flex night that is specific and measurable. Handing an open-ended free ticket to the salaried workmate at the next cubicle, or even my spouse or sibling, is another story however. It may be "hopefully motivating" but it will just as likely reinforce the notion that the Argos are a cheap night out. And at the end of the day the team is going to have little means to measure the efficacy.

    There are smart ways to provide real monetary value adds. Imagine if, for example, for every $2 or $3 extra dollars in revenue you brought in during the regular season the team discounted next year's ST by $1. Then I'd want to SELL to the workmate in the next cubicle with a genuine incentive in mind. I'm sure we could come up with numerous similar strategies that would reward STHs without papering the stadium.

  7. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Barnes View Post
    Agreed. As I suggested in an earlier post, as well, the fact is other fan bases come into the city, be it the Dome or BMO, and deal with all the same issues - parking, traffic, etc - yet the Argo base stays home is large numbers. Again, why is this?
    First off we haven't missed a game in years but here's my theory:

    There are less Argonauts fans in the GTA than Leafs, Raptors and Blue Jays fans.

    A large percentage of our fans are located suburban and rural where the other teams have more urban located fans.

    Our fans prefer driving to transit and it's hard to tailgate properly without a car.

  8. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shatto View Post
    It is undoubtedly true, that when things are given away free, people will often see the items, if not valueless, then definitely of reduced value.

    However the flex tickets were not given away free but rather given as a reward for those who had purchased season tickets. Argo season ticket holders are hardly overwhelmed, with rewards or benefits for putting out money, way in advance of the season. In my case the flex tickets were utilized to bring friends and family members to the game and hopefully motivating some of them to buy Argo tickets in the future.

    This may simply be a case of individuals interpreting something in different ways and neither view is necessarily wrong. Whereas one may see the flex tickets as a valuable perk for being a STH, even a useful marketing tool to encourage future fans, others will see it as a freeby that devalues the value of the tickets they have purchased and discourage others from buying tickets at the regular price.

    In our case the use of flex tickets did create interest in the team and motivated individuals to want to come to future games--so it worked but I respect if others have a different view. Whatever your take on this issue, I still hold that STH's are not receiving sufficient benefits from being a STH.
    Agree 100%. One of the friends I brought down to a game with my flex tickets has now become a STH.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tau Ceti View Post

    On another note, I agree firmly with R.J. The complaints on this forum about location are incredibly exasperating.
    I agree that complaints about location are exasperating, but from my own experience I know of three STH's who sat in the same section as me at Rogers Centre who were adamant that they would not attend games at BMO. As dismal as the atmosphere there was at times, they preferred it because they were guaranteed a climate controlled environment. This makes no sense to me, as football should be played outdoors and IMO, the atmosphere and sightlines at BMO are incredible. So far, we have been very blessed with excellent weather for all of our games. Without a large committed fan base, I worry what the stands would look like on a miserable day where it is raining or snowing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tau Ceti View Post
    I don't mean to suggest the flex tickets were unappreciated or that having them taken away is not a fair frustration. (Having only been a STH for two seasons perhaps I haven't been exposed to as much misery and am being more forgiving.)

    But I still don't like the strategy. For groups that have little purchasing power to begin with (eg. kids) or are deserving of special recognition (veterans, alumni, etc.) by all means have targeted freebies. (The absence of a smart children's strategy is really puzzling in year 3 at BMO.) Or, if you are making it open to all, have a flex night that is specific and measurable. Handing an open-ended free ticket to the salaried workmate at the next cubicle, or even my spouse or sibling, is another story however. It may be "hopefully motivating" but it will just as likely reinforce the notion that the Argos are a cheap night out. And at the end of the day the team is going to have little means to measure the efficacy.

    There are smart ways to provide real monetary value adds. Imagine if, for example, for every $2 or $3 extra dollars in revenue you brought in during the regular season the team discounted next year's ST by $1. Then I'd want to SELL to the workmate in the next cubicle with a genuine incentive in mind. I'm sure we could come up with numerous similar strategies that would reward STHs without papering the stadium.
    Argonauts Kids Club:

    https://www.argonauts.ca/kidsclub/

  11. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by RB957 View Post
    I agree that complaints about location are exasperating, but from my own experience I know of three STH's who sat in the same section as me at Rogers Centre who were adamant that they would not attend games at BMO. As dismal as the atmosphere there was at times, they preferred it because they were guaranteed a climate controlled environment. This makes no sense to me, as football should be played outdoors and IMO, the atmosphere and sightlines at BMO are incredible. So far, we have been very blessed with excellent weather for all of our games. Without a large committed fan base, I worry what the stands would look like on a miserable day where it is raining or snowing.
    As I've mentioned before my wife feels the same way. She didn't come to the Grey Cup at BMO Field and has already told me that she may not come to this year's Eastern Final if it's to cold out. She's attended every other Argonauts game at BMO Field.

    Also the quality of the seats themselves in the 200's @ BMO Field are pretty lackluster.
    Last edited by Neely2005; 11-07-2017 at 03:18 PM.

  12. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neely2005 View Post
    That seems like a decent value for a fun pack. But there's no kids pricing or night, is there? I thought I read on here they were still having issues confirming who's a kid...

  13. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shatto View Post
    Like ToneDeaf, I was born in the UK and have attended top tier soccer games there. I have a fondness, appreciation and understanding of the game but an undying love for the CFL and the Argos, so yes there is a bias to the Canadian game. Hopefully Tone has a great time on Nov 19 and returns for regular season games next year.

    Though agreeing with many of the points made, I must, respectfully, take exception to the "borderline homophobic" comment and the implication this could be part of an "old white men" syndrome. Frankly, I find that generalization, both insulting and unbecoming of someone who obviously writes so open mindedly and intelligently. In the past couple of years, a number of the "younger generation" TFC fans, have been guilty of some atrocious behaviour, including ugly sexist comments made to a young female reporter but I would never suggest that this is indicative of the general behaviour of TFC fans. I have also not anti TFC taunts by Argo fans at the BMO but have heard anti Argo taunts at TFC games.

    Though born a Brit, I'm now a Canadian through and through (even though my kids still think have an English accent). As a Canadian, I can appreciate the history of the CFL and its contributions to Canadian culture. Only in Canada would a fan bypass the PM and speak to an ex CFL great (Jackson). One of things often overlooked, is how competitive the CFL an its players are when compared to gold level NFL. When I try to convince my friends, including ex-Brits to follow TFC and perhaps even attend a game, they mock MLS league not as second rate but as 5th or 6th rate. They will dutifully watch Man U on telly but never watch a TFC game. Until that attitude changes, TFC will continue to have abysmal TV ratings. Hopefully, that attitude will change and we can look forward to both great crowds for Argos games at BMO and good TV ratings for TFC and MLS.

    I look forward to the time when TFC fans embrace having the Argos at BMO and Argo fans rejoice in the successes of TFC. Well, I can always hope.

    ToneDeaf, thank you for your comments and analysis of the situation involving CFL and MLS. If I have disagreed with you on some points, please don't see that as a criticism of your post, on the whole. It was brave of you to come on this site and express your thoughts in a cogent and honest manner. Do attend the tailgating on the 19th, if you are able. If you make yourself know, I'm sure a number of us would be very happy to treat you to a beer. Once again, enjoy the game and hopefully an Argo win.
    Shatto, thanks for your reply and others who have responded to my post. I apologize that it has taken a while to reply but life and stuff tends to get in the way.

    First off, please let me address the concerns you and others have taken to my 'borderline homophobic commentary' phrase. I do not intend to insult anyone here - I do not have an agenda, hidden or otherwise, I just wanted to make a point.

    I made that comment in reference to posts made within this thread, suggesting that soccer players would be "slapping and hair pulling" each other during a well-documented fracas. To my mind, those words imply a degree of effeminacy which in turn could lead to accusations of 'borderline homophobic commentary'. Especially in this day and age. Especially in this liberal city.

    It's not clearly objectionable and nor is it overt, hence my use of the term 'borderline' but there is definitely a hint of 'something' in there as there has been in the past when referencing TFC players ('pansy' a term i remember being used). I know many will refuse to accept this and they may well be right - I am not judge and jury here - but you would in turn, be wrong to dismiss that many would certainly take exception to such verbal imagery. As such, I stand by my comment - it is a push to reconcile my comment with the ones it was intended to criticize, I gather that - but perception is key.

    To add, I am only too aware of the 'F her right in the P' incident and consider it a stain on the character of TFC both as a club and a fanbase. I offer no defence of such behaviour or of other instances where TFC fans have not exactly showered themselves in glory.

    But in danger of being sidetracked, I also wanted to state that I am going to the Eastern Conference Final as an Argos fan, not a TFC rubbernecker. I said I have enough interest in the Argos and the CFL to have watched games on TV and now I wish to see it in the flesh. I will also be cheering the boys on with gusto and I hope for a great game and a big win - and if I enjoy it, I'll be returning to BMO in double blue as well as in red for the foreseeable future.

    Thanks Shatto, for your honest and eloquent reply, it was a pleasure to read and as I suspect there will still be points that we do not agree on, I have enjoyed the exchange and welcome it. I agree completely that there needs to be a coming together of TFC and Argos fans as both could be of benefit to the other. I just think in this instance, that Argo fans have a great opportunity to take the moral high ground here by talking about TFC in more complimentary terms, even if that is not reciprocated by many TFC fans.

    Remember guys, this is a public forum read by many more eyes than those who choose to participate actively (as i write there are 5 active members and 19 guests viewing the forum). You the poster's comments can have an impact on whether the lurkers decide to attend an Argos home game or not. And whatever your thoughts about TFC or soccer in general, it has well over 25000 people who are proven willing to pony up the dollar and haul their asses out to BMO field - it would be foolish to alienate them.
    Last edited by ToneDeaf; 11-09-2017 at 01:58 PM.

  14. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by ToneDeaf View Post
    And whatever your thoughts about TFC or soccer in general, it has well over 25000 people who are proven willing to pony up the dollar and haul their asses out to BMO field - it would be foolish to alienate them.
    What's this supposed to mean ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by R.J View Post
    http://www.bttoronto.ca/videos/argos...eld-on-sunday/

    Even promoting on Breakfast Television which airs on Citytv, a station owned by Rogers. Gotta give some credit here.
    Except the game isn't this Sunday.
    :-)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shatto View Post
    As a Canadian, I can appreciate the history of the CFL and its contributions to Canadian culture. Only in Canada would a fan bypass the PM and speak to an ex CFL great (Jackson).
    Totally agreed with all of your post and thought ToneDeaf was off the mark on many points. Glad you brought up that classic clip. I can't watch that enough. Many people spun that as a shot at Harper (Cohon was there as well) but it was really just someone paying homage to a God.


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    Today, the Argos finally got what TFC has, that is, a (nearly) full BMO Field. An entertaining game in front of a terrific crowd. It was also cold - but not too cold. Could not have asked for more!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Barnes View Post
    Today, the Argos finally got what TFC has, that is, a (nearly) full BMO Field. An entertaining game in front of a terrific crowd. It was also cold - but not too cold. Could not have asked for more!
    It was a good game and great atmosphere. Just need to carry the momentum into next season. Hopefully in the near future we will be disappointed by this size of crowd and be asking here why the hell did we not sell out for the 100th time in a row. Everyone on here did a great job hustling tickets and getting people out. It was nice how we all came together!
    CFL alive and well all others can go to Hell!

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    It was nice to see 25K at BMO for an argos game especially after I saw that 'NO ARGOS AT BMO FIELD' banner hanging on top of a crossbridge above don valley parkway on my way to the game. felt like a hate message as a cfl fan.

    good luck at the game. i'll be at the shipyard Saturday and the flutie bros band gig at the VIP tailgate sunday
    Grey cup 106. Newer and bluer meanies

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    Quote Originally Posted by 294life View Post
    It was nice to see 25K at BMO for an argos game especially after I saw that 'NO ARGOS AT BMO FIELD' banner hanging on top of a crossbridge above don valley parkway on my way to the game. felt like a hate message as a cfl fan.
    I'd say the people who hung that banner either a) have way too much time on their hands, b) are the type who will try and ruin other peoples fun (cowardly, anonymous bullies, in other words - I'd have more respect for them if they'd at least stood with the banner, but alas, no) or c) just need to grow up. Probably a combination of all three. Certainly not a reflection of all TFC fans, I'm sure, and certainly not going to ruin my memories of what was a truly fantastic day for Argo fans.

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