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  1. #81
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    I agree with most of what you posted. Maybe I like the history better than the "Theismann A". If the boat is the one I'm thinking of I'm not sure if I like the busyness of the different colours but I prefer any iteration of the boat to an A, or the porthole, or 1995 Jason, or the the worst IMO, the 89-90 Argos script.

    I think it is much ado about nothing about the abundance of As, they are fairly blended into the logos and to me don't scream out "A" (aside from the A only logos). The Als and Argos aren't necessarily tied into an A design either, everybody has options, including the Schooners.

    Argos Uniforms and Logos


    Last edited by rdavies; 01-08-2018 at 03:37 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by paulwoods13 View Post
    I'm fine with the current logo although I prefer the 1977-88 boat. I never really liked the Theismann-era A; too plain for my taste. The old boat logo shown above is nice and could/should be used as a secondary logo but is too busy to be the primary on the helmets IMO.
    Agree on all points!
    The current “shield” logo looks really good on all Argo merchandise, the 1980’s boat logo always looked great on the helmet.
    1991 uniform with boat logo on helmet would suit me fine.
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    Quote Originally Posted by paulwoods13 View Post
    I just hope that whatever the team is called, it does not have a big A in the logo. We have two of those already in a nine-team league.
    And in the same division. My biggest concern is potentially having yet another team going with the colour black as either their primary or secondary colour.

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    Quote Originally Posted by R.J View Post
    And in the same division. My biggest concern is potentially having yet another team going with the colour black as either their primary or secondary colour.
    Right -- that is definitely even worse than another A. Black is the scourge of uniform design. It's absurd how it has ruined the once-great Stampeders unis.
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  5. #85
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    Economics of Halifax's CFL bid hinge on loyal fans
    JOSH HEALEY http://thechronicleherald.ca January 10, 2018

    Roughly 40 per cent of operating revenue for teams a result of ticket sales

    EDITOR'S NOTE: This is part ten of a series on the lastest attempt to bring a CFL team to Halifax.

    PART 1: CFL in Halifax: A gamble with lots of field to cover
    PART 2: Stadium talks dominate CFL expansion discussion
    PART 3: Halifax CFL franchise would make football a coast-to-coast sport, says commissioner
    PART 4: Would Halifax support pro football?
    PART 5: Roughriders show that CFL fan support can be province-wide
    PART 6: Retired CFL pros want to see Halifax team
    PART 7: Could a public-private partnership secure a CFL stadium?
    PART 8: Stadium will make or break Halifax's CFL bid
    PART 9: POLL: What's in a name for an Atlantic CFL team?

    At the end of the day, Halifax’s bid for a CFL team will come down to dollars and cents.

    And the cost of running a football franchise in Halifax extends beyond building the estimated $200-million stadium.

    It is a long-term investment and there are countless coaches, players, bartenders and janitors who will all draw a paycheque if expansion occurs.

    Examining the financials of teams around the league, it becomes apparent that the profits of CFL teams depend heavily on loyal fan bases to survive.

    Glen Hodgson, a senior fellow at the Conference Board of Canada and an expert in macro-economics, said that the financial success of a Halifax franchise hinges on the team attracting a dedicated audience.

    “They really have to appeal to all of Atlantic Canada as a fan base,” he said. “You need a capture area of about a million people to make a team go.”

    Annual report trends

    The Winnipeg Blue Bombers, Edmonton Eskimos and Saskatchewan Roughriders all release annual financial reports to the public.

    For the 2016 season, Winnipeg and Edmonton reported marginal surpluses of $2.8 million and $2.2 million respectively.

    Winnipeg’s operating revenues totalled $27.1 million while Edmonton reported $23.5 million.

    Saskatchewan, an outlier in terms of profits in the CFL, boasted operating revenues of $39.3 million but spent $42.7 million on everything from player salaries to extra footballs.

    Looking at these numbers, all three teams are basically spending as much as they earn.

    And in terms of revenue, roughly 40 per cent of the teams’ profits are based solely on ticket sales.

    As Len Rhodes, Edmonton’s president and CEO outlined, the profitability of the team relies on attendance.

    “Our primary focus is to attract new fans,” he wrote. “We are a gate-driven league and our largest single source of revenue is ticket sales.”

    A gate driven league

    Hodgson said that relying so heavily on fan attendance poses a risk.

    “You’re obviously more susceptible to not having a winning team or having bad weather for a couple of days,” he said. “In any business, the more diversified you are the more stable your business is going to be.”

    He highlighted that growing a dedicated fan base helps protect against a weak team but it takes some time for fans to buy into the system. Ticket prices will be integral to attracting fans in Halifax.

    “There will be an effect early on where you’ll sell out for the first year because it’s new in town, but ticket pricing is going to be really important in building a fan base and getting young people to support a team,” said Hodgson.

    The variance in ticket prices can be seen in the revenues of Saskatchewan and Edmonton.

    Ticket sales compromised roughly 40 per cent of both teams’ revenues but Saskatchewan earned $15.6 million on tickets while Edmonton reported $8.91 million. This is despite Edmonton having more seats available.

    “It’s about the popularity of the team. They’re now the hottest ticket in Saskatchewan,” said Hodgson.

    Randy Burgess, vice-president of communications and content for the Ottawa Sports and Entertainment Group (OSEG), said Ottawa has been successful at attracting fans to Redblacks games as an expansion team. The emphasis has been on attracting peoples aged 18-34.

    “Ticket prices are low. You can get in the building for as little as $35 and go wherever you want,” said Burgess. “The focus is on fun. That’s really the business we’re in.”

    Costs

    The CFL salary cap, which is low when compared to other pro sports, sits at roughly $5 million.

    But when compared to the revenues of teams not named Saskatchewan, the cap eats up around a quarter of their operating revenues.

    For example, Edmonton spent $7.9 million on player and coaches’ salaries.

    Including scouting, medical personnel, travel costs and gear, Edmonton paid out another $11.4 million for football operation expenses.

    And there are even more expenses to be added, such as the price of producing merchandise, marketing and more.

    Sponsorships would be one way to combat operating costs but sponsorship revenues for teams are slight in comparison to ticket sales.

    Edmonton’s sponsors contributed 21 per cent of their revenue while Saskatchewan’s was only 15 per cent.

    Like Ottawa, Edmonton plans on capitalizing on a young fan base to cover the cost of business.

    “An IMI research study conducted in April 2016 indicates the Edmonton Eskimos have a wide, passionate and growing fan base, led by teens and millennials following the 2015 Grey Cup victory,” reported Rhodes.

    For Halifax to boast a fan base that attends the number of games and buys the merchandise and concessions to make a franchise financially viable will take time.

    “They would have to build a fan base and that would take, frankly, a generation,” said Hodgson.

    A lesson learned

    Roger Greenberg, OSEG’s executive chairman and managing partner , has experience growing a CFL fan base.

    A strong football culture or lack thereof, was something that was frequently discussed at the beginning of Ottawa’s CFL expansion in 2014.

    “Football failed twice in Ottawa,” said Greenberg, arguing that Halifax’s bid is starting off on better footing than his own.

    He said he believes the reason the previous renditions of the CFL in Ottawa failed was because of poor ownership.

    “It’s like any business. If you don’t have quality leadership and ownership, I don’t care what the business is, it’s going to fail,” Greenberg said.

    Now, the CFL is thriving in the nation’s capital.

    “We sell out every game. We sold out the Grey Cup. We had the first Grey Cup parade here in 40 years last year,” said Greenberg. “We’ve been successful.”

    How much will Atlantic Canadians be willing to support — and pay — to make the same success happen in Halifax?

  6. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by paulwoods13 View Post
    Right -- that is definitely even worse than another A. Black is the scourge of uniform design. It's absurd how it has ruined the once-great Stampeders unis.
    Agreed with both of you. I absolutely hate that black is part of the Stampeders uniforms. They had great uniforms in the 1970s and early 1980s and then ruined them with black starting in the early 1990s (the Larry Ryckman era).
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    The possible CFL expansion to Halifax has created a lot of buzz at the league's winter meetings.

    “We didn’t deal with it on the agenda but it was like a constant buzz in the room,” said CFL commissioner Randy Ambrosie. “It’s been like the oxygen in the room. I’m committed to the governors and the president that we’re going to keep them updated on our progress and that’s been going on in private conversations since everybody began to arrive,” said Ambrosie at the CFL winter meetings here. ...
    “I love hearing all the conversations I’m hearing here,” said Edmonton present and CEO Len Rhodes.
    “Forget about having a 10th team and all the benefits that would bring in scheduling. It’s just the idea of the league finally being a true national league going from coast to coast.”


    Ambrosie said he met with the three-man ownership group in December and it’s still all systems go. “These are incredibly bright guys,” said Ambrosie. “They are very savvy. They’ve been in sports. They have a strong connection to the community. The three gentlemen that are part of the ownership group — Anthony LeBlanc, Bruce Bowser and Gary Drummond — are getting full support from us. We’re working on a business plan with them that I talked with them about in December. “Anthony and Gary were partners in the NHL in Phoenix and Bruce is a remarkably successful executive. Bruce was born and raised in Halifax. Anthony lived in the Maritimes so he knows the area well. They have a lot of things going for them but ultimately what it comes down to is the stadium." ...
    But the great thing is we have this model that Ottawa used for the redevelopment of Lansdowne. There seems to be a lot of interest in Halifax in how that model works. ...
    “I think announcing Halifax and the Maritimes and Atlantic Canada as the 10th team would be like the day they pounded the final spike in the national railroad,” he said of that event only 331 kilometres from here at Craigellachie, B.C. ...
    “As a CFL fan first, I’m all for it,” said TSN executive producer Paul Graham. “Having 10 teams would balance the league and probably made for better scheduling. One of the issues with scheduling always has been having nine teams.



    http://nationalpost.com/sports/footb...5-46143fb2cbb0

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    Bidder for Halifax franchise in the CFL says 2018 will be a big year for the group
    Tim Baines Postmedia January 12, 2018

    What a few years ago seemed more like a pipe dream, a coast-to-coast Canadian Football League could become an on-field reality by 2020.

    While the “stars would have to align” and plenty of hurdles would have to be cleared, a strong Maritime bid for the CFL’s 10th franchise could pay off in the next few months, with CFL shovels in the ground on a new stadium in Halifax before year’s end.

    “Everything needs to go right, and I’ve never been involved in a project where that happens,” said Anthony LeBlanc, an Ottawa resident and the front man for the Maritime bid. “Sure, we have desires. Then there’s reality.

    “We’ll spend the better part of 2018 doing all the approvals and everything that’s necessary in starting to build a stadium. Best case, in the next six to eight months we have everything wrapped up. By best-case scenario, we have a team on the field by 2020, but that’s a real stretch. I think 2021 is more realistic. Just as long as we get it done. I don’t want it to be 2025 and we’re still talking about this. By the end of 2018, if we don’t have some shovels in the ground or at least real strong approvals, I’d be getting concerned. I’m a realist that these things can take time. Look at Ottawa. It took them (six) years before (the Redblacks) were up and playing.

    “The stuff we’re working on right now is twofold: finalizing what I would say is an initial agreement with the league, and we’re getting ready to finalize economic impact analysis to go to the city and to the province with a proposal of how we can work together. We hope to have something to both those bodies in the next four to six weeks.”

    LeBlanc knows there will be questions. Is it fiscally responsible for the governments involved? Does it make good business sense?

    “There are people questioning if this is the right thing to do,” LeBlanc said. “That’s totally fair. If you’re a taxpayer and you think your taxpayer dollars aren’t being used correctly, you should have the ability to question it. The onus is on us to illustrate this is a good economic driver.”

    A bit of background on how this thing got going. LeBlanc was part of a group that owned the Arizona Coyotes from 2013 to 2017 before being bought out by another partner, Andrew Barroway. LeBlanc was the Coyotes’ president, CEO and an alternate governor. When it looked like a solid bet that Barroway would take over the Coyotes, LeBlanc and Gary Drummond, the National Hockey League team’s president of hockey operations, started talking about the CFL.

    “He’s from Regina and obviously a big fan of the CFL,” LeBlanc said. “We thought, ‘Where do we start?’ I called Bobby Smith, he owns the (Quebec Major Junior Hockey League’s Halifax) Mooseheads and is a former GM of the Coyotes. We got together. I wanted to make sure he was cool with it. I didn’t want to do anything that was offensive to the Mooseheads operation. He said, ‘No, this would be great for the region.’

    “I asked if he’d be interested, he said, ‘Probably not, but you should talk to my cousin.’ It turns out his cousin, Richard Butts, was the city manager for Halifax. Richard put together a bunch of meetings for me to fly into Halifax. I met with the chamber of commerce, the local economic development group and the mayor (Mike Savage). The mayor said, ‘We’ve had a lot of people come through our doors over the years and they just don’t seem to understand that we can’t just go out and build a stadium. We want to be part of it, but we can’t lead it.’ ”

    The mayor hooked LeBlanc up with another businessman, AMJ Campbell Van Lines CEO Bruce Bowser, who had also shown interest in a CFL team in Atlantic Canada.

    “We met with the mayor, we met with the premier,” LeBlanc said. “We were pretty successful with keeping it quiet for four months or so. In that period of time, we probably met with the Halifax regional municipality 10 times, the province a handful of times. We met with a bunch of local organizations, we met with the league multiple times, presented to the board of governors. We did a lot of legwork before it became public. It’s just kind of developed its own inertia. There’s still a lot of work to do. The elephant in the room is the stadium. But we seem to have everything coming together.”

    What Ottawa Sports & Entertainment Group has done with Lansdowne Park — with condos, bars and restaurants around the stadium and arena — is something of a model for what the Maritime Football group is pushing toward. While nothing is official, there has been a trademark application made on Atlantic Schooners.

    “If I could just pick up Lansdowne and move it to a plot of land in Halifax, that’s definitely what we’d want to do,” LeBlanc said. “These guys have hit it out of the park. But it will depend on which site we end up at. Some of the sites are already relatively built up. We have more opportunity for some of that mixed-use development in a couple of the sites we’re looking at compared to some of the others.”

    Will football work in Halifax? Can a CFL team find success and maybe extend itself beyond past the boundaries of Halifax and Nova Scotia into neighbouring provinces?

    “If we do things right, if we’re sincere and in for the long haul — all things we plan to be — we do think we can replicate that magic you see out in Regina,” LeBlanc said. “I think this will be an absolute success.”

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    Halifax is such a fun city, spent four years there for university, the first Grey Cup there will be such a blast! I hope this group can get this done. 10 teams and Coast to Coast will be great for the league.

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    I don't think their timetable for getting the franchise up and running is realistic. Even Ottawa faced significant delays in their original timetable for returning to the CFL despite its previous history in the league. However, I do think it can happen.

    Last edited by jerrym; 01-25-2018 at 10:03 PM.

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    https://cflinhalifax.com/

    I like some of these names, concepts and colours.

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    Without doing much looking into this, how rich is this ownership group?

    I would think you'd have to be wealthy enough to sustain losing roughly $5 million for 3-4 years if things went to shit after the first year, which would obviously be wildly popular and financially successful.

    But if the team sucks in year 3 and attendance drops to 8K a game, can these guys handle the financial bleeding?

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    Quote Originally Posted by KCargosfan View Post
    Without doing much looking into this, how rich is this ownership group?
    I would say no one in the general public knows for sure. Because of some of the shenanigans in Phoenix, I was inclined to underestimate them. But two factors have assuaged me somewhat: one that they have been endorsed by someone who should be knowledgeable of their wealth, Ambrosie and two they would have had to have met a 60 some million dollar payroll in Phoenix. Running a hockey team is a far larger financial reach than a CFL club. Do I wish they could bring in another big player, yes, but all I've read so far is that they are quietly working behind the scenes getting things done before they are presented to the public.

    Everything I have read about the group so far is that they have been diligent and serious in their efforts.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rdavies View Post
    I would say no one in the general public knows for sure. Because of some of the shenanigans in Phoenix, I was inclined to underestimate them. But two factors have assuaged me somewhat: one that they have been endorsed by someone who should be knowledgeable of their wealth, Ambrosie and two they would have had to have met a 60 some million dollar payroll in Phoenix. Running a hockey team is a far larger financial reach than a CFL club. Do I wish they could bring in another big player, yes, but all I've read so far is that they are quietly working behind the scenes getting things done before they are presented to the public.

    Everything I have read about the group so far is that they have been diligent and serious in their efforts.
    Interesting. Good to know.

    Also, is there any talk about going cheaper on a stadium like Hamilton did? I would assume it would be possible to get something respectable for $140-ish million instead of having to go over $200 million like the Riders.

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    Quote Originally Posted by KCargosfan View Post
    Also, is there any talk about going cheaper on a stadium like Hamilton did? I would assume it would be possible to get something respectable for $140-ish million instead of having to go over $200 million like the Riders.
    City council was shown a render of a stadium but how close to a realistic model or how much that would cost are unknown. Really one of the few things made public is a desire to follow the Ottawa model which concerning the stadium holds no relevance at all as Ottawa had something already to work with and the refurb (including the arena) may not have cost over 120 million. That has been a very difficult number to track down from day one and I am going on memory from years ago and a post I made with some rare info.

    The Regina stadium BTW was closer to 300 million (it started at 280 IIRC). Also the 145 million dollar number people use for THF originally included a 25 million contingency fund. Had it been done on budget it should have been 120 million, I am not sure what the final cost ended up being.

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    Potential CFL team owners working behind the scenes to bring franchise to Halifax
    CTV Atlantic atlantic.ctvnews.ca Friday, January 26, 2018

    The group that's working to bring a CFL franchise to Halifax appears to be playing the long game.

    The potential owners are working behind the scenes to line up funding, sponsorship, a name, and a stadium – all in time for kickoff in 2020 or 2021.

    “We're going to spend some time talking with the city, with the province, and even starting conversations with some local organizations that have indicated that they have a desire to talk about a sponsorship,” says Anthony LeBlanc, who is leading the effort.

    The potential franchise doesn't have a name, but the group owns the Atlantic Schooners trademark.

    “We just saw that there is an awful lot of excitement around that name,” says LeBlanc. “I'm not sitting here today saying that is going to be the name, but we felt that it certainly had a lot of strong potential.”

    They also don't have a home, and that's been a major hurdle dating back to the 1980s. Even then, governments have been unwilling to commit large amounts of public money.

    "It has to be a large development like you see in other markets like Ottawa, where you see restaurants and mixed use retail and even residential,” LeBlanc says.

    As the group hones in on a stadium location, it's also working on economic impact analysis. LeBlanc is pushing for more private investment than other stadiums in Regina, Winnipeg and Ottawa.

    “We know that the onus is on us to put together a plan that works for everyone, including and most importantly taxpayers,” he says.

    The group hasn't asked the province or municipality for money yet. Both say there are options aside from a direct investment.

    “If they can do it where we pay for our contribution through potential future revenues that might not have existed otherwise, then that's a big win for the community,” says Halifax Mayor Mike Savage.

    “Ours would have to be, whether it's a payroll remittance or something of that nature,” says Nova Scotia Premier Stephen McNeil.

    In the meantime, the ownership group will test the waters in public. A "name the team" contest is likely coming soon, along with a season ticket drive. LeBlanc is aiming for 10,000 fans to buy in in anticipation of the first East Coast kickoff.

    With files from CTV Atlantic’s Sarah Ritchie.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rdavies View Post
    The Regina stadium BTW was closer to 300 million (it started at 280 IIRC). Also the 145 million dollar number people use for THF originally included a 25 million contingency fund. Had it been done on budget it should have been 120 million, I am not sure what the final cost ended up being.
    Hard to believe, but the final cost is TBD, it's still in the courts. Stadium is not complete (mostly deficiencies). The legal issues are also preventing Hamilton from hosting a Grey Cup. I think the stadium is good, especially the seats, but cheapest price doesn't always work out as well as some believe.

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    In response to the fan social media group pushing the proposed Halifax franchise ahead quickly, the CFL and those applying for team ownership have issued statements strongly suggesting that these groups not get to far ahead of themselves. I think this is a wise idea as when this happened during the proposed CFL expansion to the US, the league was embarrassed when things did not work out as expected, something that has happened with some other leagues.

    The account, CFLinHalifax, had fans dreaming of the possibilities — however, the league has clarified that it has no affiliation with the account:
    “We want to make it clear that the Canadian Football League has no affiliation with the social media accounts identifying themselves as CFLinHalifax. While we appreciate the excitement and enthusiasm of the fans behind these accounts, even if some of their suggestions are far more appropriate than others, it is premature to discuss a name for a franchise that has not been awarded. We have been advised by the potential ownership group for Halifax that it also has no affiliation with these fan accounts.”
    The CFL confirmed back in November that discussions have taken place with an ownership group that is interested in bringing an expansion team to the city of Halifax. However, the league has maintained that a very thorough process of due diligence will be required.
    On Monday, Anthony LeBlanc, Partner, Maritime Football Limited, echoed the CFL’s statement:
    “While we love the enthusiasm and some of the creativity being shown by the CFLinHalifax series of social media sites, it is not one that is managed by the potential ownership group. As we have mentioned before, we do like and are considering a name the team contest, however we are not ready to start that process as of yet. We continue to work diligently and expeditiously with the league, various levels of government and local stakeholders, and expect an update to be delivered in the not too distant future.”
    https://www.cfl.ca/2018/01/29/cfl-is...fax-team-name/

  19. #99
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    Pretty clear it was a statement in regards to the name and concept of CFLinHalifax. Some people didn't take too kindly to the Explosion name, which is understandable I suppose. What I think is sad is that the Leblanc Group and the CFL are getting blamed and taking a ridiculous amount of heat for it - CFLinHalfiax is a fan who's coming up with concepts and designs, people need to relax. Way too easy for people to be "outraged' nowadays.

    Ferguson nails it.


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    Not sure why, but I really like these three.










    Admittedly, the Fog concept would be really tough for broadcasters, but I think it's unique.

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